new anti aggro move for mercs

[goodkebab]

There is of course the beserk and charge....


but here is a simple but effective addition to his arsenel  that would  very easy to add to the game (easy to implement with little work)


Tossing a proxy mine to the ground near his feet.
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How it works:
mine is in the load out,  when near a wall,  merc attaches mine to wall.  When no wall is near,  he tosses it a foot in front of him and it is always a proxy.


This is effectively the same thing as dropping a grenade at your feet,  except it gives the merc a chance to escape the radius of the explosion.

All mines have  1 second delay of course from being turned on(just like CT).  -so Spies still have a chance to escape, and then shoot the mine.  If they immediately dive away,  they should also be able to escape.


This would allow for creative placement of mines-- like tossing them into vents,  over ledges in situations like ledg grabs.

[Bionic-Blob]

could work i guess, could also present a bigger problem, of glitchy mines, than we have now.

[Gawain]

it's quite a risky move as aggro spies could push the merc in the mine radius easily, but it's an interesting idea. i don't think there will be lame mine places because of this, but being able to place a mine in garden 1 from g2 may change the gameplay in a good or bad way.

[goodkebab]

what would definately need to change is that spies need to be able to climb ledges/ladders in a slow animation to allow for bypassing proxies that were traditionally impassable.  I found that to be simply unfair that a lot of ledges did not allow the spy to get past because a proxy was there.

The classic one is a proxy above the ladder in sector 1 of wherehouse.

[InvisibleMan999]

what would definately need to change is that spies need to be able to climb ledges/ladders in a slow animation to allow for bypassing proxies that were traditionally impassable. 

Yeah for sure.

Also you may want to consider expanding the firing radius of your gun while hanging so you can take out a mine that happens to be below a considerable drop, such as the tech room in aqua. One thing with floor mines that I can see happening is people tossing em right below a drop and there's no real way for a spy to avoid em besides chaffing it.

[Farley4Fan]

Hmmm....  Spies definately need a slow moving climb like you said, yeah.

As for mines at your feet? I don't know about this one.  If a merc is standing over a ledge would he be able to throw the mine down the ledge, after all there is no ground in front of him.  I don't know what kind of merc would do this in real life lol, not bringing in the realism arguement just wondering.

[a3c0i3d]

as i like the idea, to counter those annoying agro spies, the whole idea just screams glitch. But testing should be able to prove that wrong or right.

[neth]

Perhaps there should be a possibility not only to put mines at your feet but to shoot them with your gun.  They could only stick to floor and would activate after about 10 sec. so theyre not used as the alternative for nades

edit: Additionally when spy gets close to a mine put on the floor it could "jump" and blow up in air. Thanks to this spies would get about 0,5-1 sec to react just like when crossing the mine's laser.

[Westfall]

I'm quite iffy about this new move. While it would be really good to counter the attack, it isn't that hard to counter aggressive spies now. What should change is the animation of a merc hitting the spy so that he can't get grabbed as soon as he smacks a spy down. Otherwise, countering the aggro spy isn't really that difficult.

I say change animation of berserking/charging and hitting a spy so he is unable to get grabbed by the other spy and see how that goes before adding the proxy mine. While it is a good idea, it will just be something extra for the merc to do. Have to consider some balance on this one. Also, being able to toss mines into a vent (or anywhere for that matter) would be pretty sweet, but overpowering imo.

And yes, fix the spies climbing ladders so they can't get blown up by mines placed at the top of em. That usually pissed me off somethin fierce.

[Spekkio]

I don't really think this is needed. Also, while there's a 1 sec delay of placing a proxy in CT, if you run around behind a merc placing a proxy on the wall, you will ALWAYS kill him.

I really don't think that we need to make proxy mines even more useful than they already are. You have the zerk, bullcharge, shotty, uzi and tazer for CQB anti-aggro. That is plenty.

I'm up in the air about the climb animations. Other than a select few spots, it's not an issue. What I do think is that the detection radius of proxies needs to be toned down so you can't easily set them off by running beyond their explosion radius.

ADDED: Westfall, I disagree there, too. One merc should not be able to own two spies by just smashing the melee button over and over again. That's just incredibly n00b. If you see two spies around, don't charge. The charge was designed around the fact that there's a drawback to it, but you always have it available. This is unlike the tazer which has no drawbacks at all, but takes up an equipment slot. If you can't kill the spies, lrn2aim. I actually believe that the penalty for bullcharging into a wall needs to be worse (disable jump until the charge cooldown completes, elbow hit doesn't reset charge) so that you don't get people jumping/lagging out of grabs when the spy dodges them.

[frvge]

Agree with spekkio

[Vega]

I was going to give a detailed explanation as well but spekkio already did it for me.  I disagree with the mine-at-the-feet idea and the idea of not allowing a merc to be grabbed after he berserks.  Although, I DO agree the slow ladder movement.

[B1nArY_001]

So far no one has really posted a good reason why being able to drop mines on the ground is a bad idea and quite frankly, I can't think of any off the top of my head.

It would allow for more versatile placement but just as easy removal by a spy.

I say add it in and if it seems to cause problems then we can remove it. There is absolutely no reason not to give this idea a try and see how it turns out.

Edit: Not being able to grab after a berserk or a charge would eliminate the spies ability to neutralize a merc by baiting him or just simply necking him because he was stupid enough to charge you with your team mate there, not good imo. I know some people hate aggro spies but if you take that away you start to put limitations on how people can play.

[goodkebab]

your not obliged to toss the mine at your feet,  and i see it as effective tactic against getting double teamed.  The obvious risk is what makes it balanced.

Its a simple addition requiring little effort ....and increases the randomness of where a mine can be,  and forces aggro spies to be more nimble.


Where i see it being powerful is used in combo with trapping spies into a corner.

[kronf]

First thing that comes to mind about throwing mines is that mercs will be able to throw mines in spy only places. For example outside orphanage, club house in between tea and lunch window and lot more other places.