Breaking the mold

[Vega]

hi, some ideas for improved CT.

Merc: Floormines, only seen when using nightvision
      : Lock-up system, when a merc enters a room he has the possability to lock up every door in that room(spy can only escape through vents)
     : poisonmine that can only be healed at a healthbox not by spy buddy.
     : accurate bash(radius of impact)
Spy: share stickycam view(when turned on in ur profile)
     : escape manoeuvres as in DA(1 button that sets off an action like a dive or a quick swing on the ceiling)
     

I thought of a floormine too, have no clue what balance would be like, but it's definitely a neat idea.  Lock up system sounds cool.  I don't really like the poison mine idea (it's a pain in the ass enough in-game).  Accurate bash is good.  Share stickycam is good and logical.  I also agree with escape moves like the ones in DA.  8)  Keep them coming  ^_^

[goodkebab]

hmmm....small problem i see with floor mines is a certain degree of realism.  ie:  placing mines on concrete floors or catwalks.

It also violates the principal of all gadgets being visible without visions.  Even a presence detector is still visable without visions.

Spies will still be able to shoot the mines in order to kill a merc....so mercs need to be able to see the mine just as much as spies.

[MacBryce]

What are the thoughts on a optional 3rd commander-esque player for both teams?

The commanders have a top viewed tactical map of the different stories of a map. It's just a detailed map like an airphoto, so they can't actually see everything that happens in real-time. They do get statistics from terminals, objectives, etc. They can ping certain spots to give the spies instructions.

Mercs and spies can leave cameras anywhere they like. They've got an unlimited number of them but they can only place 4 at the same time. They can't use the camera's but their commander can control them and look through them. The camera's are shot into position like the sticky cams.

The mercs got a little extra in the sense that every alarm triggered or explosion will show up on the commander's map.

The spies got an extra in the sense that their commander can release smoke from their camera.

I'm just brainstorming here. Maybe the commanders should be able to move their camera's like little robots? Maybe they should get control over their own gadgets like those drones from DA?

[Valserp]

Part of CT's charm is that you yourself do your own intelligence and are often forced to assume where the enemy is.
So a commander with a camnet to do that for you would take that charm away.

[MacBryce]

The last thing I'd like is to add something that would destroy the gameplay concept of SCCT. I'm proposing to get a third player involved in a different way than just adding another spy/merc. Maybe just a player that controls a number of flying drone all the time, RTS-like, with a fog-of-war that only shows stuff in the vicinity of those droids.

Maybe too drastic...

[Vega]

yes i agree witht he floormine thing, again just an idea to talk about  :)


while the commander idea is drastic.....I do think it's pretty cool.  I like the idea of 3v3 but I want to make it different from 3v3 that is in DA

[Overstatement]

I play Natural Selection (mod for HL1, still probably more people online than either DA or CT due to it's awesomeness) and I want to point out that commanders don't like custom maps because most of them are missing their birds eye view mini-maps. Apparently, they are a pain to make, especally if you need to get their scale exact so overlay of your team's position will render in the correct position.

And commanders just don't fit. The mercs are usually there as a guard (they guard for hours, not 10 minutes), you don't usually have a commander for stuff like that. I would suggest taking it from the single player. Let the commander see through spys' view just like Lambert sees what Fisher sees and they all talk through mics. But it probably isn't worth having to wait for a mature 5th player with a mic...(you could could turn it on and off but I feel like at this stage, you should focus on stuff that should be included in every game, not some gimmick with the possiblity to be rarely used)

Floormines would be kind of cool. But will it only be effective in limited amounts of spots per map like the proxy mines?

[Tinweasele]

while commander mode may be a bit much, it would be nice to have a bit more interactive defencive network for the mercs if they take the right gadget, sort of like camnet on crack.  perhaps limit the amount of power in a power grid and allow mercs to dynamically change the security systems that are running.  "well it would be nice if we could turn on the lasers in sector 2, but we really need the power for the cameras in the hallways."  this device could also allow you to view the status of activated security.  "deactived,activated,malfunction"  would allow for the mercs to take a more active defence without giving them 3000 different explosive devices.

[Daybreak]

For The chechnya map I'm trying to implement something along the lines of the camera system in Shermerhorn. The idea there is that the camera system can be hacked by spies yet can be turned back on by Mercs who decide to leave their post. Saddly, hacking the camera system was that great of an advantage and wasn't used often. My plan is to have search lights that are on to detract spies from running all over outside. Hacking them would be benificial but can be turned back on by mercs if they want to leave their post. Same goes for the lazers that guard the wall to deter spies from climbing it. Technically they could, but since it's a cop wall, the merc knows both spies are there.
Both can be turned back on. It's not essential for spies, it'd make their job easier and the mercs a little harder. Plus for those devious camping mercs who won't turn them on again, may pay for their camping at the loss of a game. It won't by anymeans make them lose, but infiltration by spies will be a lot easier.

[Overstatement]

So that map is about soviet soldiers holding a warehorse, right? It would be really cool if one of the objectives or optional hacks will send false orders to call in artillery which would blow up a wall or fence so spies for spies to have another way to the objective. Even cooler would be false orders to send an air strike so you can actually see and hear the planes.

Edit: This should probably be the in art forum's thread, shouldn't it?

[Daybreak]

Well it's a public discussion about breaking the mold. Something like that hasn't been done.

For my Downtown map, I wanted a pressence detector that was located on the street with such a small detection that it would be very specific. If you triggered it, a car would drive by and hit you. Making it bad for anyone to pass by that point and a possible trap. I never got it to work but then again, i couldn't make my stupid doors work. LOL. Damn movers arg! Assign this!

[Vega]

Great ideas!  I played Natural Selection for a while (which IS definitely an awesome mod) but haven't played it in a couple of years.  Thier commander was implemented really well (like overstatement said). 

So that map is about soviet soldiers holding a warehorse, right? It would be really cool if one of the objectives or optional hacks will send false orders to call in artillery which would blow up a wall or fence so spies for spies to have another way to the objective. Even cooler would be false orders to send an air strike so you can actually see and hear the planes.

Sweet idea, this sounds awesome.

Daybreak, good idea for a camera system and the such.  I also like yours too, tinweasele.  I've also had the idea that an advance security system would be sweet and tactically challenging.

The thing is, if we increase all this stuff in the game, we gotta balance it out by giving spies new ways of getting through the level without getting owned.  It's challenging enough for spies.

[goodkebab]

hmmm....just had an idea today...

Where the head of the security network are NPCs behind locked doors of an office.  They are basically the eyes watching the cameras, can control securtiy gates etc. ...and the spy team has to disable these NPCs as an objective(break their neck).  This will then disable cameras, lasers...etc.  Mercs of course have the best interest in making sure these NPCs survive.

personally.....i am not buying the commander mode at all even if it was functional.  This is 2vs2 atm and possibly more...but a commander would fit when you have 10vs10 or something.

And on a side note with the chechnya map....Soviets were advancing  to destroy the place...the Mercs were just hired guns for another shady govt.  The merc objective could be anything from transportating a nucleur bomb....to guarding kilotons of Herion.
Would be a wicked objective that the spies would have to hack a comm center and frame the mercs with a barrage of soviet artillery.   That is something i could see hapening in espionage.

[MR.Mic]

warehorse

When the moon is full, and there is prey about...

[Overstatement]

 >:(
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Edit: Ah well, might as well say something. Put in a mini ingame cutscene at the beginning of each map (after load, not after each death) for the spies. On bank, I want to see spies repeling from the helicopter. On Clubhouse, I want to see spies repel from the wall into spawn. In missile, I want to see spies parachuting into spawn! I don't mind mercs that much because they could have been guarding for hours before the spies attack but it would be nice for some maps like in mall seeing 2 mercs enter the mall acting all cool-like with their laser targetting on.