equipment amount decrease every respawn (and related stuff like mask)

[Gawain]

it's not about punishing dying, it's rather about not punishing staying alive.
if you compete 25 smoke nades to 5 smoke nades and see no imbalance in the eq system, i really don't know what else to say.

[frvge]

min(5 , (numberoflivesleft+numberoftimespartnerdied/2))

Basically, nades get into your equip and are delete when your teammate dies.
So for the 10 seconds that he's waiting to respawn, you have like 1-3 more nade.
When he spawns, he gets his share which is subtracted from yours.

So:
*start with 4 lives each*
5-5
*partner dies*
5-0
*use 2 nades*

euh, now I'm kinda being stupid with the 'rule' above, but it would basically be an adapting system.

[Gawain]

so you want nades to beam around from one spy to the other for no apparent reason? oO

[Spekkio]

Would be something interesting to look into for the mercs, but definitely not for spies. Reason being is that I would bet that if one were able to look at statistics, the amount of merc kills vastly outnumber the amount of spy kills. It's just the nature of how each team was designed. Mercs have tools to shoot things and blow things up. Spies have to put a lot more effort into killing.

But you could also fix that by making the mercs more easily killable -- things like no team healing or better jump hit detection would go far.

I also don't know of too many spies who suicide to spam more equipment.

I have two issues with this, though: First, if you give the mercs less equipment with each death, then you create even less incentive to use the KO after a grab.

Second, I keep seeing the phrase "punishment for dying." There already is a punishment for dying: it's called losing. The fact that anyone is considering this idea is a tribute to how rare it is to see merc elimination, so look into fixing the cause rather than the effect. Aside from that, spies have to reinfiltrate the map, and mercs have to often scramble to get into a defensive position that is far from the respawn point. Spies don't die on purpose because spy lives are more precious than merc lives, even though they get more of them, and because it can be quite difficult to penetrate choke points after the mercs have had time to set up their defenses. Play against mercs who know how to snipe, place mines/traps well, use camnet efficiently, and position themselves well and get back to me on how easy it is to just run around and "spam" stuff as spies.

Kind of a ramble but I'm tired. Anyway, yea, this idea misses the forest for the trees or some other gay saying like that.

[Gawain]

i already mentioned that it would be a bad idea for the merc side.
reconsidering my opinion after all the input i think it all comes down to either consider mercs suiciding at tactical times (and better spy players choosing eq like flash/camo/whatever/hbs more likely than others) to be a wanted part of gameplay, or to provide some balanced refill system. atm against smoke/cam spammers you gotta suicide/teamkill at least once (which is totally possible and certainly a good if not overpowered counter) which looks kinda strange to newcomers and is often considered lame, but i can live with that. however one thing is for sure: mask has to become a permanent gadget.
another (probably crazy) idea would be to let players choose how many lives they want and give eq accordingly: 5 lives => normal amount, 3 lives => double amount.

[I <3 U]

I still don't see whats wrong with refill boxes. Why is everything getting so damn complication for something so simple. Placed well, refill boxes will be fine. If we go on like this soon merc will have to find there eq.

[Ion.67]

Or just keep it how it is now...

[LennardF1989]

I agree with Freeman. Topics on "new" subjects are getting too complicated now that there are almost no subjects left to discuss about.

There is no problem, aggroing is part of the game. There should be any fines, and refill boxes can get a boost (eg. Grenades from a ammobox) as long as the ammo box isn't infinitely filled (thus runs out of ammo).

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind stuff being discussed. But now that almost everything has been discussed, topics get filled with nonsense suggestions, people start thinking to complicated on what, when and how. Like this topic, it tries to tackle a problem which might not even be a problem in PS.

When time comes I'm sure, we as team, will reopen discussions (say a new gadget). To see if you guys still agree on it and if not, well, we'll still add it anyway :P

[Westfall]

Its not the fact that the idea are complicated. Its that they aren't thoroughly thought through before being posted. Maybe they were, but they still come out sounding off target. Things like that shouldn't be presented, but I encourage that they are only because it eventually spawned the idea of refill boxes being placed. So in a way we may have even found a simple solution that can be balanced easily.

[Gawain]

if refill boxes should work well it's definitely not gonna be easy to implement them.
the main problem with discussions is that the most important areas ps can improve over ct like special visions, gadget balance, sound system, eq system etc have either been discussed to death or can only be reasonably discussed after beta release. what we definitely don't need are discussions about fancy new gadgets, polls for actions against flaming etc..

[Ion.67]

if refill boxes should work well it's definitely not gonna be easy to implement them

If you mean by coding...then...not exactly. Well, not that I think anyway, because there are quite a few games out there with ammo boxes. I have never heard of them being hard.

If you mean by map placement, then, maybe. It will take a few tries, but think about the spots for 10 minutes, and you could figure it out.

[LennardF1989]

You guys shouldn't really worry on whether something is hard to do or not... We'll get that something done no matter what (even if it's a pain in the arse). Great example are the visions.

[Gawain]

so how exactly should those refill boxes work?

[Ion.67]

They give you a refill of equipment. I dont like it but how the hell else would a refill box work?

[LennardF1989]

so how exactly should those refill boxes work?

I do'n't mean how they work, but the technical aspect of it (placement in the map, code), it's you guys job to suggest, not think on whether it's possible or not ;D