Suggestion Thread

[frvge]

Might be possible. Like sticky grenades.

[CurdyMilk]

Has anyone ever thought of a "sticky grenade" for the mercs?  I am wondering if it would work to have a nade in which it sticks to its first object in contact and then has a 1-2 second timer before detonating.  It could make a quiet beeping noise before it blows.  It could be a useful option to go along with the normal nades that you bank off of other objects.  You could make it explode the same way, but have a different color or style so it can be detected while in the air as different from the other kind.  A smart spy could tell the difference if he sees coming.  So what do you think of this?  I want real answers not something like "this is a **** idea."  If you disagree, at least say your reasoning.

thats great and all but its sounds too  TF2 ish O_o hence teh demo man :/.

Haha, by the way, I liked TF2 and the demoman was my fav.  I didn't really make the connection to that however.  There are a few differences here.  One is that this is automated detonation rather than manual.  As soon as it hits, it has 1-2 seconds before exploding.  Second, it would not be a glowing bright spike ball.  It would longer and narrower with a tiny blinking red light that has a quiet beep as soon as it attaches.  This way, the spy could hear it if he listened carefully even if he never saw it,.  The places it could be useful is when trying to nade a spy on a ceiling or on a pole/wall where it is very difficult to use the other type.  The merc could also try to anticipate a spy rounding a corner with a little more stealth rather than firing a loud nade.  Maybe it would not be an entirely different gadget.  If the merc has grenades in his inventory, then he could choose a ratio of how many of each type to take with him.  So 4:0, 3:1, 2:2, 1:3, or 0:4.  This way it would not be mandatory but more of an extension of what is already in place. 

Might be possible. Like sticky grenades.

Yes.  The only issue up for debate here is whether or not they could be stuck onto the spy.  Of course they could stick to any other object, but if they directly hit the spy should it stick to him?  Then it would be an automatic kill.  If it is hard enough to get a direct hit then fine, but if not then we would need an alternative.  I can't make an accurate judgement on this because I haven't been able to test the gameplay, but you guys would know whether it would be too easy or not.  If you don't want it to stick to the spy, you could use the idea that the spy's high tech suit avoids all adhesives.  Then, the nade would drop in front of him and stick to the nearest object.  This could make it quite interesting for the merc's strategy by actually trying to get it close to him but not on him in order for it to be effective.  As I said before, the merc would have to use his judgment on which type to use in each situation.  Most cases would lean toward the normal frag, but some would benefit from this idea.

[Spekkio]

I know! We could make a spy claw.

The spy claw could be stuck into the merc to kill him instead of snapping his neck. Instead of elbowing the merc, the spy claw will scratch him...this causes him to be shocked and lose 1/10th of his health. The spy claw could also be used to tap into computer systems, so instead of just a normal timer on the objectives you get to play a fun whackamole mini-game...and we all know mini-games pwn. For sabotage, the spy claw can supercharge the bomb to make it explode in .75x the time. For extraction, the spy claw will overload the disc tracking system, so you don't appear on radar when you move.

The spy claw can also be used to climb surfaces, so the spy can access areas in the map that he cannot by any other gadget or means in the game. That's totally balanced and cool because if you don't want to go there then you just shouldn't take the spy claw. It also would be awesome to have the spy hang upside down from a ceiling and decapitate the merc, like Baraka from MKII. Afterward, the spy will whip a cake out of his ass and eat it, refilling his life.

This gadget totally r0x0rz and should be in PS. If you disagree, you're wrong, because this is something different.

[Ion.67]

Who said anything about hacking terminals automatically with hacking bullets?! I actually clearing said it DOESN'T do that. I said hacking PANELS, as in the panels you hack to open doors, as in NOT terminals.  

I saw this...

Maybe that could be too op.  Here's what I'm thinking with the hack darts.
-Instantly hack wall panels
-Manually hack terminals from a distance, there is a max range - have to maintain a view of the terminal, goes slower than usual
-Hack bullets allow you to look through a camnet or even have security cams give you intruder alerts.

You didn't suggest it, but someone else did, which is why I said it.

Adrenaline Shots wouldn't encourage aggro as much as you say, which is already being somewhat nerfed in PS.

Then why instant, temporary health? When would you need it besides facing a merc? If a mine hits you, you are already going to be close to death, and temporary health will only encourage running to a health pack, probably facing a merc along the way. I don't see how it would encourage anything OTHER than aggro.

You really need to cut it out with the personal attacks dude, itt's uncalled for.

They are fun.

The gadget is too specific in function; it's absolutely useless in maps that don't have hacking panels.

Hrmmm....

Then don't bring it on those levels?

Course that's saying it's stuck to just hacking panels.

That is a bad way to think of things. For one, I rarely hacked panels. The ones I hacked the most were probably the ones on factory, for the wall room, or maybe the steam on club. I would never, ever have wanted to waste a gadget slot on hacking those (design flaw on factory, as I don't think limiting the game by two objectives is good; most likely better to leave the panels for opening up additional ROUTES for the spys to take, or for environmental effects that could benefit the spy). Now, this gadget actually has SOME base to go on, as more of a passive gadget to infiltrate places. I feel like the functions you have mentioned would be more suited to an alarm snare though. So here are some of my ideas.

Alarm Snare: Basically, you have said hacking camnet and cameras, both of which I have posted as a buff for alarm snares. Making them a toggle would make them more multipurpose, instead of just making noise. The toggle would be for noise or for other environmentally decided options. Opening doors...while not a necessity, could be added. I really don't feel this would make them over-powered, but I can see where you are coming from. It would still be a decoy, because they could look at camnet and see that there is no one there, when you could actually be sitting right in front of the camera. You could open a door from across the map with a carefully placed snare, and run in a different direction, faking them out. It could also be used as a passive tool for going to locations and getting into places without having to put yourself at risk. It seems like that would make the alarm snares competitive with other gadgets, while not making it overpowered. Its downside would be no real offensive purpose besides distracting the merc, which is not much. So, in an effort to avoid a wall of text that no one will read, here is a summary of the alarm snare idea that I just said:

• Having a toggle, active or passive.
• If shot at a camera, the passive toggle will make the camera not register you, while the active toggle will make it go off
• If shot at a panel, the passive toggle will start the hacking process without making an alert status for the merc, but will still make the noise associated with the panel. The active toggle will hack the panel in a normal amount of time, but will display the alert status.
• If shot at camnet, the passive toggle will display a clean scene, while the active toggle will...do something (can't think of something, maybe display a screen that looks like it is getting shot, or something else to act like the spy is in the room)
• The active toggle will make noise and ping the reticle, while the passive will make no noise

I believe this make will make the alarm snare a very efficient gadget at what it should be used for, distractions and enabling the spy through passive means.

Camnet: Camnet has a few design flaws. First of all, it really doesn't make sense on how it works... Why would they have separate cameras to view? It really doesn't make sense, although realism isn't a first priority. Secondly, people just camped with their back to a wall in a corner for complete protection. Also, as spekkio said, one merc will watch while the other merc follows his orders, which makes for an easy merc game while also being boring. Proposed sollution:

• Have the stationary cams be the camnet cams. When an alarm goes up, jump into the cam to get a better view of the situation. Also, it takes away the balance issues of camnet locations, as most cams are put into locations that don't cover huge areas or spawn routes the spies will take.
• When the merc is viewing the cams, have them pull out a laptop screen of some sort that is electronic. That way, when a merc who is viewing the cams is shot with the shocker, it can be an electrocution and will knock the merc out for a period of time. That will decrease the amount of time the merc spends in the cam.
• Have the quality of the cams look like it is a wifi feed, deteriorating in quality as the distance increases. That way the merc will not be able to camp in the spawn and view all of the cams, but will have to move around.
  

I believe these changes will make camnet a feature that is less annoying to spies, and less campy for mercs. The first suggestion is just an idea and not a true fix, but would indirectly help. It would also increase the amount of camnet positions.

Cams/Smoke/Gasmask: Another issue that was brought up was the hard counter of the gasmask to cams and smokes. The gasmask is thought of as a mandatory gadget for many, although I didn't use it much. I didn't like the idea of taking a gadget just in case the other team used cams heavily. I also didn't like that my cams were useless when a merc happened to equip the gasmask when entering the room I had my cam set up in. Changes need to be made, but I am not sure what. Here are some ideas:

• There were renders of the merc, wearing a gasmask over his mouth, but not eyes. If that is the case, I believe that the CAM gas should make the merc tear up and have a difficult time seeing, but be completely protected from passing out. The smoke grenade smoke would not affect the eyes because it is a different type, which is visibly shown by the smoke color (at least in previous iterations)
• The gas mask should have a shorter timer, but able to be refilled once by the backpack (air filter style)
• When equipped, the breathing sound should be very loud, and when filtering smoke, it should block out almost all other sounds in the game. That way it doesn't have to block sight but the sound instead (since it doesn't cover eyes).
  

Those are my ideas right now. I believe they all work fine and fix some problems that were annoying.

P.S. Grenade idea isn't good OR bad... unneeded but could be an option on the actual grenade, like mines have.

[frvge]

Ion, if you think personal attacks are fun, take it to a PM.

[Spekkio]

LOL at nerfed aggro in PS.

Good luck defending yourself without MT and funny punch glitches.

[Spark Mandriller]

I know! We could make a spy claw.

This fits in with my idea of making spies catgirls so I'm all for it tbh.

Let's test this shit, yo.

[CurdyMilk]

This is my little sketch of the sticky nade variation to give you ideas if you decide to go with it.  Obviously this is a low quality pic but it shows the basic look.  You could also add the red as flashing in and out with white and a beep.  What do you think?  It would be pretty simple...

Edit: I just added the spots on the other ones and adjusted the red color slightly.

[Spekkio]

Here are my suggestions:

-landing crouched sets off the merc's reticle
-tazer range x3
-spy can jump a tazed merc
-taze invulnerability from 12 sec to 4
-triple passive security in all maps
-remove insta nades
-bullcharge no longer ko's spies
-remove berserk
-spy traps go from 3--> 5
-no limit to number of mines/traps that can be placed throughout the map
-remove healing
-remove regen
-remove the ability to remove traps/spy bullets
-frag grenades from 4 ---> 5
-reduce spy trap laser range
-shorten proxy mine detection radius
-increase spy crouching height
-add 4 speeds instead of 2
-allow merc to walk/crouch at slow speed

the list goes on ...

If you don't think that non-gadget changes can have huge effects on gameplay, you are sorely mistaken.

[Farley4Fan]

I'm pretty sure insta nades were a glitch.  You can't remove them in a different game if they aren't present.  I know what you mean though, make sure there are no insta nade glitches.  Right?  lol nvm

[Cronky]

Cronky, I gave my opinion...twice. Here it is for the third time:

A panel hacking gadget is too narrow in function to be useful. Everything else you've mentioned regarding motion sensors and cameras can be accomplished by other means already present in the game.

RIGHT! Just didn't read that 2nd part.

I have to disagree though because while other gadgets have similar abilities (As do they all too eachother), none would do (Or does) exactly what this gadget would do.

Hacking Bullet: Confusion of static defenses (Results varying on type of defense hacked), and gives option to hack Panels from far away

Spy Bullet: Ability to target Merc and give position, Listen in on Merc's conversation, and AoE Radius protection.

Alarm Snare: Mask movement with false sounds, can set off alarms without putting spy in danger.

HBS: Cone style acquisition of Nearby Merc or Spy position. (Forget if this thing does more than that)

While it's abilities overlap with other gadgets, it is still unique on it's execution. Your pick on which one of these gadgets you'd take is based on the situation/level you are about to enter. Where as one person may bring Spy Bullets on Deftec because of it's overall largely open layout. On Aqua one may prefer to bring the HBS because of the close proximity of routes available. This just being an example, but still applicable that a new gadget with unique abilities is still plausible. Of course assuming not all maps will be the same in terms of Panels/Defenses/Layout.

@Ion

I could see this Hacking Bullet Combined into the Alarm Snare. Just how you described it seems a wee bit complicated. I know in execution it would just be a difference in toggles, but it sounds like a lot of options that you have to keep in mind when using it. That each situation has Two separate things that could happen. Those two things on one surface not being the same as what may happen if you were to use it on another surface.

I do completely agree with though that having the sound for the alarm snare to be manually operated would be a smart move, if not a more useful than it's current state of use. (Pretty sure you mentioned that.) Or a toggle at the very least.

On top of all that, I like the Camnet Ideas a lot. Wifi Connection/Static, Perfect. Overload, a good consequence for Cam Camping. Not physically controlling the cams... a nice touch that would work as long as what the cams were looking at actually were positioned right.

An old suggestion I'd still like to see more of:

Unique Pieces on the Spy and Merc suit that represent exactly what they are bringing. Nothing drastic, but if say a Spy brought:

Flash, Smoke, Alarm Snares, and HBS

There would be grenades on his belt, perhaps a pouch for alarm snares, and his gun would have a slight modification (If it still uses the gun).

Much in the same way that if a Merc bring a backpack, that he should be wearing a backpack (Or as you guys have made, a side pouch. Or how the Gas Mask has worked out.). Just a fully fleshed out version of physical representations of your Load-out you brought.

[Ion.67]

Here are my suggestions:

-landing crouched sets off the merc's reticle If it is a hard landing right?
-tazer range x3
-spy can jump a tazed merc Not too sure...PT had some problems...
-taze invulnerability from 12 sec to 4 What do you mean by taze?
-triple passive security in all maps If my alarm snare idea was involved I would say totally, but it would seem to be a pain after shooting out 10 cameras to get into the map
-remove insta nades
-bullcharge no longer ko's spies Why? As long as it isn't a get out of any situation free card, and instead was only used as an offensive tool, it could be good. No more charging out of smoke and hitting a spy...
-remove berserk
-spy traps go from 3--> 5
-no limit to number of mines/traps that can be placed throughout the map Suiciding mercs aren't good. Maybe punish a suicide?
-remove healing I think that the spy should be able to heal another spy, with a 5 second or so animation that only heals up to 50% more than he currently has... If he is at 50% health he gets boosted to 75% or so
-remove regen Defintely
-remove the ability to remove traps/spy bullets Mixed feelings here...Maybe another long animation?
-frag grenades from 4 ---> 5
-reduce spy trap laser range
-shorten proxy mine detection radius I never noticed a problem?
-increase spy crouching height Why? As far as I know the vents and other areas have been designed for a specific height already, so why change it?
-add 4 speeds instead of 2 That was over complicated in PT and served no purpose.
-allow merc to walk/crouch at slow speed Why would any merc ever want to do that

the list goes on ...

If you don't think that non-gadget changes can have huge effects on gameplay, you are sorely mistaken.

I could see this Hacking Bullet Combined into the Alarm Snare. Just how you described it seems a wee bit complicated. I know in execution it would just be a difference in toggles, but it sounds like a lot of options that you have to keep in mind when using it. That each situation has Two separate things that could happen. Those two things on one surface not being the same as what may happen if you were to use it on another surface. The active toggle would always toggle noise and attempt to alert mercs, while passive would attempt to deceive mercs. There aren't many possibilities for surfaces and it would be just like everything else, a learning process. You could also just have a context sensitive display by the gadget selection saying what the button would do.

I do completely agree with though that having the sound for the alarm snare to be manually operated would be a smart move, if not a more useful than it's current state of use. (Pretty sure you mentioned that.) Or a toggle at the very least. Ties in with above

On top of all that, I like the Camnet Ideas a lot. Wifi Connection/Static, Perfect. Overload, a good consequence for Cam Camping. Not physically controlling the cams... a nice touch that would work as long as what the cams were looking at actually were positioned right. I think controlling the cams would be good, just for the sake that so much would be lost without the tracking option that camnet brings.

[Spekkio]

@ion,

My post consisted of all the changes that were made from PT to CT. I made it to illustrate the point that minor changes without adding gadgets or anything drastic can still have significant effects on how the game plays.

[Cronky]

The active toggle would always toggle noise and attempt to alert mercs, while passive would attempt to deceive mercs. There aren't many possibilities for surfaces and it would be just like everything else, a learning process. You could also just have a context sensitive display by the gadget selection saying what the button would do.

I think controlling the cams would be good, just for the sake that so much would be lost without the tracking option that camnet brings.

Thinking about it, yes there aren't many surfaces. Just that each different surface would have 2 "Modes" you would have to learn. I never meant to say it wasn't possible. People will indeed learn, just that as it is with each gadget... They are fairly simple in execution. If you just made the alarm snare toggle-able then it would already be an improvement. Combining it with the suggested hacking bullet throws a slew more options into it, but complicates the gadget much more. Making it less of an Alarm Snare, and more something completely different. (Thus losing the alarm snare in the process. Which is the wrong direction)

As for Camnet, I agree that controlling it is good as well. I forgot that the normal cameras DID move in CT (At least most did. I believe Deftect B Elevator, Lower Floor didn't). So I mistook it as a stationary camera idea.

[Spekkio]

ion, I used snares extensively in CT and disagree with your assessment of them.

Snares were the only way to mitigate merc EAX in CT; their only hindrance was that the mercs could hear you fire them from quite far away. However, since PS won't have CT's broken sound engine, that problem will fix itself. That change, by itself, is enough to make snares almost perfect.

I do think that "smarter" snares would be helpful -- eg, they make ambient noises that mimic the surface it's placed on, rather than random ones. Also, snares shot on passive equipment should trigger an alarm for the merc, but shouldn't lock the room.

Most people misunderstand the function of alarm snares, and thus find them useless. Snares aren't meant to trick the merc into thinking you're somewhere you're not. They're for masking your movement so that you can move about undetected and quickly. With one or two well-placed alarm snares, I never have to worry about crouching to move around. I can then use the spy's faster speed to my advantage, and the mercs will have a harder time knowing where I'm going next to cut me off.

Your suggestions would make the gadget very overpowered.