Interaction Solutions?

[Cronky]

Ha Ha Ha. So Witty. PT Servers are shut down from my knowledge.

Hamachi.

Oh, and there's a word for people who make idiotic posts in order to "stimulate discussion." They're called trolls. Discussion isn't useful when everything you write about is pure crap.

:O

Two things learned in one short post! Hamachi being used for more than RE5, and that I could be considered a Troll! Hooray for Stimulating Discussion... It's almost as good as this forum actually having a LOT of active posters.

I've got points in my posts somewhere. Then again, you would refuse to acknowledge them even as, "Mediocre" at best if I tried to clarify them. Yes you have played SvM muuuuuuuuch more than me. Probably even more Recently also! You could at least pretend like an idea MIGHT be okay though. The phrase, "Humor Me" comes to mind.. You didn't even give me a response on my Counter Ideas!!! Instead you shift off to, "This will ruin the game".

Hoooray.... I get to play a shinier version of CT SvM... with Club House Remake and all... I'm sure I'll find the exact same weapons have a brand new feeling as they play the exact same way they did 3 years ago... (Oh except for those minor differences that I never noticed like Chaff not going through walls...)

Step off your pedestal and pretend like the game can be fun for 5 seconds. That even things you thought were Perfect in CT could be altered... and could actually end up better if the idea lasted more than 5 minutes on this forum. Yes, Balance is important, but stifling the creativity of members with technical babble from another game will only make them resent coming up with new ones. It's fortunate that I'm a good sport and will still try to give good questions when needed. No matter the assholery that spreads like wildfire here.

Still glad I could play my part though ;D

[frvge]

If we all could go back to not personally attacking each other this much in the Public Discussion forum? There's plenty of room to do that in Off-Topic and in PMs.

We'll have to see how the current version plays out. Depending on that, we'll consider some more tests with different stuff.

[Spark Mandriller]

If you guys want to be taken seriously you should think about your ideas for more than five minutes before posting them. You think about nerfing berserk for more than five minutes, and you realise hey, this makes stairs/areas with lots of low spots to jump off impossible for mercs to survive in. Therefore it's bad and I shouldn't suggest it.

On the other hand we have Vega, who actually thought about his wierdo Leopard spies for a while, so they actually sound decent. How many people did you see in his thread telling him it was a terrible idea? None, because it wasn't. Why can't you guys be more like Vega?

hhaha i can't believe i just said that



ps at roberto

[Roberto1223]

...useless ass forum...

[CurdyMilk]

If we all could go back to not personally attacking each other this much in the Public Discussion forum? There's plenty of room to do that in Off-Topic and in PMs.

We'll have to see how the current version plays out. Depending on that, we'll consider some more tests with different stuff.

^^
Why can't we all get along as a happy family?  We are all here for the same cause but nobody seems like each other...
And ideas are good...but they will all be either confirmed or denied once the beta comes out and final decisions are made after that for revision.  Right now they can't keep any promises for changes when there is still a lot to be determined for the basics.  Plus, more ideas will arise once the beta comes out, and they may be even better than the ones already proposed.  Right now it is just a starting point for things to keep in mind for the future when it really counts.  Compile your list of ideas, and then see what works and doesn't work later.

[Spekkio]

There's a point in my post somewhere

Well, learn to get to it and people might actually read it.

You didn't even give me a response on my Counter Ideas!!! Instead you shift off to, "This will ruin the game".

I must have missed your suggestion in one of the many verbose walls of text you posted.

If an idea is stupid from a design perspective, you don't test it. I'm sure the devs could balance spies with rocket launchers if they really wanted to, but it's poor design. An uncounterable move is also poor design.

[Cronky]

If you guys want to be taken seriously you should think about your ideas for more than five minutes before posting them. You think about nerfing berserk for more than five minutes, and you realise hey, this makes stairs/areas with lots of low spots to jump off impossible for mercs to survive in. Therefore it's bad and I shouldn't suggest it.

On the other hand we have Vega, who actually thought about his wierdo Leopard spies for a while, so they actually sound decent. How many people did you see in his thread telling him it was a terrible idea? None, because it wasn't. Why can't you guys be more like Vega?

hhaha i can't believe i just said that

The difference between Vega's Idea and these ones is that these aren't Choices. You Choose to be a different kind of spy. I can easily choose Not to be that spy too.

Plus this is a discussion. If I have to "Win" a discussion by thinking everything through for 4 days before hitting "Post", then I might as well make a new topic about it.

Nerfing Berserk... I guess that's a good word for it, but I'd rather give it a description like "Situational Stalemate".

Here's a new part of the idea (As suggested by Farley). You still get hurt Just as much as you would from a normal fall from that height. On top of that, the spy also loses 1/4 of his health as a penalty for actually having a good jump, but having done it while the Merc is Berserking. Both parties are stunned by this action. Meaning Spy may get a chance to live with such little health depending on the circumstances, but Merc's don't get an automatic KO. Plus the Spy is at even more risk if they drop from higher places. Since damage is Added to normal damage you'd incur, not negated.

Again this is only if they hit them on the Head. Any area outside of the head hitbox is treated exactly like the normal Berserk situation. You jump, you get KO'd, you're dead.

There's a point in my post somewhere

Well, learn to get to it and people might actually read it.

You didn't even give me a response on my Counter Ideas!!! Instead you shift off to, "This will ruin the game".

I must have missed your suggestion in one of the many verbose walls of text you posted.

If an idea is stupid from a design perspective, you don't test it. I'm sure the devs could balance spies with rocket launchers if they really wanted to, but it's poor design. An uncounterable move is also poor design.

If you don't want to take the time to read entire posts. Then don't comment on them. I read everyone's post regardless of length. Every Post in a thread that I want to post in. Perhaps I just read fast, I don't know, but it doesn't take all day. Then when I'm done... I happen to have the full knowledge of what they said. +1 to Knowledge for me.

(I understand you're a busy person, but I separated out my Longer Posts so that you could read parts that pertain to certain aspects that were being discussed)

I'm not sure you could make a worse example in comparison to this idea. "Heh Heh. Spies with Rocket Launchers is the same as Spies that can actually have a fleeing chance to a Berserking Merc".

I'm 100% sure they could balance this idea and it be the same exact game. Should I use your recent post about your Gadget Refill/Ammo Crate justification as an example? It would need to be balanced, but I'm sure a "Sweet Spot" could be achieved that satisfies both sides.

[Spekkio]

I'm 100% sure they could balance this idea and it be the same exact game. Should I use your recent post about your Gadget Refill/Ammo Crate justification as an example? It would need to be balanced, but I'm sure a "Sweet Spot" could be achieved that satisfies both sides.

As I mentioned before, it's a matter of design.

You can balance practically anything. The question is not whether something can be balanced, it's whether it warrants the time and energy spent balancing it. The phrase "needs testing" holds water for things like how many bullets to give the mercs or how long a KO should last. It does not apply to ideas that aren't good at the outset. But since you can't see the distinction between character progression in a normal game vs. unlockable "extras" through menial tasks, I don't expect you to see the distinction here, either.

You can balance the removal of berserk by taking out stairwells and having very few high areas, but that restricts maps to a point where the game could get very boring. There's really no reason to do this, other than the fact that you don't like the fact that pressing the shift key is apparently a lame way to counter someone else pressing W.

I admit the rocket launcher thing was rather extreme, but it is similar to your no-berserk idea in that both are contrary to the covert nature of the spy design. That's not to say spies can never be aggro, it's just that they're typically not as deadly doing so by themselves.

[Farley4Fan]

...useless ass forum...

Yes, this forum is useless as an Ass Forum.  There are no ass topics.

And ass is a good thing, so don't go saying "Well sure there r! lololol"

[Cronky]

I'm 100% sure they could balance this idea and it be the same exact game. Should I use your recent post about your Gadget Refill/Ammo Crate justification as an example? It would need to be balanced, but I'm sure a "Sweet Spot" could be achieved that satisfies both sides.

As I mentioned before, it's a matter of design.

You can balance practically anything. The question is not whether something can be balanced, it's whether it warrants the time and energy spent balancing it. The phrase "needs testing" holds water for things like how many bullets to give the mercs or how long a KO should last. It does not apply to ideas that aren't good at the outset. But since you can't see the distinction between character progression in a normal game vs. unlockable "extras" through menial tasks, I don't expect you to see the distinction here, either.

You can balance the removal of berserk by taking out stairwells and having very few high areas, but that restricts maps to a point where the game could get very boring. There's really no reason to do this, other than the fact that you don't like the fact that pressing the shift key is apparently a lame way to counter someone else pressing W.

That's just it though, I don't WANT Berserk gone. I did say multiple times that IF it was up to me it wouldn't be there, but the point of this idea was to KEEP it. Giving a situation in which the Spy has a possible way out. I point you to my response to Noop above yours. It adds a new dimension.

Again, this doesn't mean that the spy is negating the Merc's Jump Negating Move 100% of the time, just that it doesn't lead to an instant kill 100% of the time. The Merc also isn't knocked out.

After a few words with you on xFire you have put to light that there is only a small amount of situations where this would come into play. Only one that is justifiable that the Spy SHOULD win (A very extreme case at that). I understand that if the Merc KNOWS the Spy is jumping by a long shot then the Spy should lose no matter what, but this is the same kind of counter that can be said about a Spy Grabbing a Merc.

If a Spy Grabs a Merc the Spy should have Control of the Merc's fate. That being said the Merc's partner CAN kill the Spy before he does anything. Assuming that the Spy is competent enough to not point their back at the Merc's Partner; this Merc COULD shoot the Spy in the Head. Taking skill this partner could kill the Spy, but had a higher chance of hitting the Merc. It's a very specific situation, but one that connects slightly to the given problem and gives an example of a different outcome.

------------------------------------------------------

I believe the a revision of this mechanic need be said for clarification:

-AoE for Berserk is still the same.

-Berserk now has Two Hitboxes. One being the body/gun swinging, the other being the Merc's head (Small enough to warrant only a perfect jump/drop to achieve)

-If Spy lands inside in normal radius of attack, whether jumping or not they are KO'd like normal.

-If Spy happens to land on the Merc's Head, they "Slip" off. Incurring a penalty of some amount of health for failing a jump (Added to the heath penalty of a high drop if applicable).

-The Merc is momentarily stunned so as give the Spy a VERY Small chance at escape with their now Lesser Health.

-Merc's would be ungrabbable/unjumpable in this stunned state (Much like if jumped on, and standing back up), and immediately able to do Berserk or Rush once out as to avoid a wait and grab/jump technique.

Of course most of it is up for debate, but the idea is still legit.

[Spark Mandriller]

The difference between Vega's Idea and these ones is that these aren't Choices. You Choose to be a different kind of spy. I can easily choose Not to be that spy too.

Plus this is a discussion. If I have to "Win" a discussion by thinking everything through for 4 days before hitting "Post", then I might as well make a new topic about it.

Okay, you refuse to think and keep posting shit. Sure that'll convince a lot of people.

[Cronky]

The difference between Vega's Idea and these ones is that these aren't Choices. You Choose to be a different kind of spy. I can easily choose Not to be that spy too.

Plus this is a discussion. If I have to "Win" a discussion by thinking everything through for 4 days before hitting "Post", then I might as well make a new topic about it.

Okay, you refuse to think and keep posting shit. Sure that'll convince a lot of people.

Wow, you are just SO unimaginative.

You can only say SO much in one post that people will actually read/understand. I think my long ass posts are proof of that. How many did you actually read all the way through? While an idea may be flawed at the start, as discussion grows; so does the idea.

Now this technique dies off if the only people responding are just whiny *Censored* that decide to black and white mode everything. Can't come up with ONE way this might work? Then voice your opinion and GTFO. I don't need to read and respond 90 times with the same information, but if you keep stomping an idea. Then my hands are TIED.

I like creativity. I like new Ideas. What I like best is being that person that's on the minority side of the opinion. These ideas satisfy all my likes :)

Sorry I don't have all the answers, but LOOK at that. 6 pages in and the idea has grown ever so slightly. Imagine what it could be if it was looked at with positive answers.

[Roberto1223]

There's a point in my post somewhere

Well, learn to get to it and people might actually read it.

You didn't even give me a response on my Counter Ideas!!! Instead you shift off to, "This will ruin the game".

I must have missed your suggestion in one of the many verbose walls of text you posted.

If an idea is stupid from a design perspective, you don't test it. I'm sure the devs could balance spies with rocket launchers if they really wanted to, but it's poor design. An uncounterable move is also poor design.

DO YOU EVEN UNDERSTAND WHAT "EFFECTIVE HIT SURFACE AREA" MEANS??
WHY DO YOU KEEP SAYING IT WILL MAKE IT AN UNCOUNTERABLE MOVE!!!!

CAN YOU PLEASE TAKE A MINUTE TO ANALYSE MY DRAWING ON THE FIRST PAGE AND REALIZED THAT IF THE MERC WOULD MOVE A LITTLE  AND THEN BERSERK HE COULD VERY WELL PUT THE SPY ON THE "REGISTERED HIT SURFACE AREA"?

[Roberto1223]

Cronky, have you ever played CT? Because I mean I'm not sure if you've noticed or not but spies aren't actually meant to go for frontal confrontations. That's why their elbow just knocks mercs back, but mercs can charge and ko/do damage. If a spy gets seen while he attacks he is actually meant to lose. If a spy is trying to sneak up on a merc but the merc turns and sees him the spy is meant to lose. If a spy is trying to jump a merc but the merc sees him do it the spy is meant to lose.

If you try to jump a guy and he berserks you then you should die. Just like if you go to grab someone and they turn around at the last second and charge you. You attacked, you failed, you should pay for it. You shouldn't get away because your attack was so perfect, because if they had time to notice what you were doing and counter it then it wasn't really perfect was it?

ok so, if your crossing the road and you see a car coming at 120 mph heading towards you a split second before it hits you and u launch yourself onto the sidewalk but not fast enough and the car still runs over you, you survive? dosent make sense. i think youd still die, the fact that u saw ur death coming dosent make you invincible. sorry  man i suggest you stop watching pokemon and find yourself a job.

Cant u respond to my posts? respond instead of sending me a dumb anime drawing...

[Cronky]

@Roberto

Do tell me if I'm expressing your idea wrong. I'm just able to post frequently and go by what I think it is that you mean.