Idea about MT

[Valserp]

I mean, is it really that bad to ask that the merc at least face the right direction to pick up a spy on MT at medium ranges?  Lets have it require some degree of skill.

At first I thought the same. But at the same when I was thinking it I was playing against an insane aggro team. After the game finished, I thought to myself "thank the Splinter Cell-God for MT's detection radius".
Sure, it's a bitch on stealthy spies, but it's a necessity against aggro spies. What it needs is a slight nerf to encourage stealth, but not too much - for it can make aggro too powerful.

Note: Also, you can always depend on cover and vents to avoid detection. "But I want to move from cover to cover" you say? "The merc just stands there with MT on!". Well, wait for him to turn his back, shock him and move away. You play stealthy, right? Surely you know how to get out of sight in 3 seconds.

[Gawain]

good point

[InvisibleMan999]

At first I thought the same. But at the same when I was thinking it I was playing against an insane aggro team. After the game finished, I thought to myself "thank the Splinter Cell-God for MT's detection radius".
Sure, it's a bitch on stealthy spies, but it's a necessity against aggro spies. What it needs is a slight nerf to encourage stealth, but not too much - for it can make aggro too powerful.

No it wouldn't because running always triggers MT. regardless of distance or merc orientation. I'm just saying that you should be able to fast crouch when at medium range and behind the merc, or while at long range in front of the merc. If you do a standing run at any distance, you get picked up. Period. Aggro players will get detected easy on MT.

I'm not sure why this sounds so uber to everyone. I mean, it's not like a spy can't also be detected with normal vision and flashlight. Yes, this change will require people use their flashlights more often. It will require mercs to actually search for the spy instead of just waiting for their MT box to go off. Yes, you are going to need to turn MT *off* now and then. That's a good thing. 

This change doesn't make it more difficult to hold off aggro spies either.

Note: Also, you can always depend on cover and vents to avoid detection. "But I want to move from cover to cover" you say? "The merc just stands there with MT on!". Well, wait for him to turn his back, shock him and move away. You play stealthy, right? Surely you know how to get out of sight in 3 seconds.

Stealth isn't giving away your position by shocking the merc.

Most of the time, this will get you killed. the instant you draw your gun for the head shot, his sound detector pings and he does a 180. He doesn't see you moving so he switches to EMF. Even if you succeed on the head shot (which is tough against a moving merc at medium range), he still likely has a fix on your position and has a good idea where you're going to run to. Even if you do pull it off, the merc now knows that you're in that room somewhere. Likely he even has a good guess of which part of the room. I don't mind spies shooting me when I'm the merc. If they want to do my job for me and give themselves away, then great.

Also, if the only counter to MT is shooting the merc and getting him out of it, then MT really is the uber vision.

[Gawain]

if you cant wait until the merc leaves, you can taze and run. if you manage to taze him in the back or drop flash on him, you can run very far in 3 seconds and he has to guess where you have been gone.
just try full running with rolls and see how far you get in 3 seconds, it's really insane...

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

Yeah, and if you managed to get a chaff and a smoke in the way, you can get about double distance without being spotted (at a straight escape)  ;D

[InvisibleMan999]

if you cant wait until the merc leaves, you can taze and run. if you manage to taze him in the back or drop flash on him, you can run very far in 3 seconds and he has to guess where you have been gone.
just try full running with rolls and see how far you get in 3 seconds, it's really insane...

Isn't it hard enough to sneak past a merc in normal vision who can turn super fast?

You can go pretty far, but running full speed is also a great way to get yourself blown up by mines, trip a spytrap or even static defenses. In any case, you'll give away your position pretty quick doing that.

And besides, this is a stealth game. It's okay if I sneak past a merc in normal sight or EMF, but I can't sneak past a merc in MT? Why is that? Because he's seeing in ubervision and can completely nullify stealth? But that's okay, because you can just aggro him to death.

Oh wait, MT is great against aggro too.

But yeah, there's no problem with MT. It's just perfect as is. So perfect that you might as well never use your flashlight. Ever.

::rolls eyes::

Maybe we should change the name from Project stealth to project taze-and-run.

[Spekkio]

No one's saying that MT is perfect, but the idea of being able to move more quickly at X range than Y range is gay because it's impossible to know exactly where that line is in-game.

To be honest, if a merc is just standing there looking in one direction, you can usually sneak by him by creeping. You can do the same if he's in normal vision. In reality, the mercs are going to be looking around no matter what. What you're so vehemently arguing for wouldn't change a darn thing.

[Gawain]

dude, it's MOTION tracking. only on bad maps like deftech a merc can camp with mt and win. usually the merc has to patrol; if he doesn't, there are plenty ways of distracting him. so just sit still, slow crouch, distract him (teamwork, snares, etc), shoot a well placed cam or aggro him ffs.

[Spekkio]

My sentiments exactly.

If there's any problem with MT, it's that it can detect stationary spies, not that it detects MOTION as its name implies. I'd be more for an EMF type translucency than modifying the shadow inversion to fix that, though.

[LiVe.To.Di3]

idk i really see no problem with mt whoring or w.e u guys are complaining about or wanting to change. i would just say keep it the same period.

[InvisibleMan999]

No one's saying that MT is perfect, but the idea of being able to move more quickly at X range than Y range is gay because it's impossible to know exactly where that line is in-game.

Sure it is. You do it by feel. That's like saying it's gay that emf has a limited range because it's impossible to know where that range ends. Hell, even the sound detector has an enigmatic range. We can live with it. 

To be honest, if a merc is just standing there looking in one direction, you can usually sneak by him by creeping. You can do the same if he's in normal vision. In reality, the mercs are going to be looking around no matter what. What you're so vehemently arguing for wouldn't change a darn thing.

Well, yes it will, because MT doesn't activate instantly. It takes about a second or so, and you'd have to have the spy in your view the whole time to trigger the detection, so I think it would make a difference.

[Gawain]

If you have a hard time spotting a stationary spy with mt even if he's close to you (camo=invisible to mt btw) you have to cycle through your visions. maybe we could make camo stronger, but quite easy to be seen if spotlighted by the merc's flash light (it needs a range buff anyway, maybe it should be focusable like in sc:da). and i like the shader idea, that there is the less contrast the closer an object is to the wall. PS really shouldn't change too much in the first version, i'm sure the gameplay will change quite a lot alone with the fixes from spekkio's list and smooth aiming+no lagg.

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

Or you can simply make the merc see only moving objects in MT, so he doesnt see the map or anything, only when something moves, he sees a box - that would make MT harder, while spies would have bigger chanses to hide in the dark.

[Gawain]

lol imagining mercs running blinly around the map and into obstacles XD

but the idea is bad as it would encourage camping

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

Nah, i don't think so, the mercs still wouldn't be able to see spies that are creeping, and cause of that, they will have to move - i mean the spies can't hide forever