Small questions about UDK.

[DreadStunLock]

I recall hearing in thse forums chaff doesn';t bleed through walls anyway, so no need for walls, invisible or visible, to block chaff.

Wtf? What on earth are you on about???

He's talking about the fact of an idea i proposed long ago about the fact that chaff shouldn't be able to go through walls and that the dev's did agree upon it because it's not realistic / just cheap.

AgentX@ Don't deny it, you do use it.

Anyway the point is, the more freedom you give the better the maps get, I don't want to put fat ass hell walls because it will make the map plain ugly that way.

I was thinking about Star Wars: Force Unleashed 2, and it hit me, make a map that has as much destructibility as possible, imagine every grenade you throw something blows up. That would be one awesome map. And if make the particles respawn, that means it happens everytime and make something like a sand area where you throw a grenade and particles go up, and make it so the smoke from grenade combines with the sand, obscures the vision sight in that small area. Would be very tactical in my opinion.

[LennardF1989]

1: Possible, but depends on the programming of the effect. Don't see a reason for it. So currently no.

Correction, the chaff particle system already doesn't go through walls, nor does smoke, etc. MR.Mic made it that way.

[puuusianka]

1: Possible, but depends on the programming of the effect. Don't see a reason for it. So currently no.

Correction, the chaff particle system already doesn't go through walls, nor does smoke, etc. MR.Mic made it that way.

NO! NO! NO! How could you?! Why?! You... You... <<Faint...>>

[DreadStunLock]

1: Possible, but depends on the programming of the effect. Don't see a reason for it. So currently no.

Correction, the chaff particle system already doesn't go through walls, nor does smoke, etc. MR.Mic made it that way.

Now is it possible to make a wall that does allow it to go through? That excludes the bullet shots and grenade explosions.

[frvge]

Do explosions go through walls in real life?

The behaviour of the effects is IN the effects. In this case, the particles are set to collide with BSP and static meshes.

You could maybe set some weird kind of collision box that does not block particles but blocks everything else. I dunno. Anyway: it's STUPID. Use a fence or holes in a static mesh.

[DreadStunLock]

Do explosions go through walls in real life?

The behaviour of the effects is IN the effects. In this case, the particles are set to collide with BSP and static meshes.

You could maybe set some weird kind of collision box that does not block particles but blocks everything else. I dunno. Anyway: it's STUPID. Use a fence or holes in a static mesh.

Can I make holes in static meshes without the holes? So there are holes technically but you can't see them? No matter what vision?

[frvge]

IIRC it depends on your collision model. So if you get that 'right', it might go through. Still weird. If you throw confettis at a wall in real life, the wall blocks the confettis.

[DreadStunLock]

Frvge....ok you went there..

If you get shot in a latex suit you would be permantently slowed, if you get 2 shots you would probably die and not a single medkit with a little can of pills will help.

Noone places mines in real world on the walls for them to beep.

You can't dodge a mine by running at it and straight away turn around because the shrapnel will kill you.

If a spy has a sticky shocker it would shock you permanently to the point where you will unconcious on the ground.

Real life spies do not use non-lethal weapons, they will bring a knife and kill you, and not a single security task force will help you, because stealth wins.

Noone will drop a flashbang near their feet because it will damage them more than a mercenary, same goes for the smoke.

When you get shot by a rifle that has a sniper attachment you will probably get a knockback atleast 10 feet.

So realism isn't really what you want to discuss with confettis....

[frvge]

That is part of the suspension of belief. AKA it has to be there for the game to work.

If the level is set-up correctly, chaff does not need super power abilities like penetrating a thick wall in some magical way.

If you have other ideas to get rid of the things you mentioned that would not compromise balance issues, please speak up. I'm interested.

[DreadStunLock]

That is part of the suspension of belief. AKA it has to be there for the game to work.

If the level is set-up correctly, chaff does not need super power abilities like penetrating a thick wall in some magical way.

If you have other ideas to get rid of the things you mentioned that would not compromise balance issues, please speak up. I'm interested.

Well it would be absolutely amazing if it was possible to somehow make shooting damage a bit more realistic, for example being able to make a wall/window if you shoot the bullets bounce off and ofcourse can damage you too.

When you shoot a spy, he shoot get adrenaline to be able to run faster if he has health above 50% and after that slow down considerably and somehow make a balance there?

Not being able to run to the mine and quickly turn back without getting killed, cause that is ridicilously unreal.

About the chaff, no problem it can work, that way as well as, there won't be such BS when you chase a spy he can kite you continuesly.

I've never seen a single level where you could shoot through the metallic vents and the spy didn't have to sneak so the dust doesn't fall, there is one in station but the dust goes down off it, which doesn't make much sense.

Limiting visions and give mercenaries an energy bar and somehow refil that energy, I don't really believe that it should automatically regenerate? What they are carrying somekind of a generator? Pooping recycled into electricity? Same for spies, there can be a gadget for extra clips and take up the slot.

Mercenaries can get their energy from ammo depots.

Being able to choose the amount of gadgets you want to bring, and the less you bring the lighter you are.

Why are the mercenaries wearing a flat jacket? Maybe it's for the safety reasons of not knowing what's going on, but I am sure there is a contract that they will be dealing with non-lethal spies? So that makes sense.

Maybe the whole Medkit thing is a total bull***

[LennardF1989]

Those are actually quite good points.

[frvge]

Some of your points break balance.

We're aiming at the near-future. So about 50 years in the future. Batteries should be more than capable of powering a vision and flashlight for 12 minutes =/

We will see about THIN metal being prone to weapon-fire. However, that needs to be visualized too to set it apart from unbreakable metal, so it will not be in PS in the near future. Interesting idea for a later release.

Windows/walls breaking down = mappers using Kismet. As said in the Lakehouse Dev video from Zedblade, some chairs and tables will be destructable.

A Spy getting adrenaline is a bit SCDA-ish and is uncommon in shooters. We're not aiming for realism, just realistic. There's a difference between those two definitions.

The mine thingy depends. If you get too close to a bomb, you can die. If you are further away, you might lose health. If you are out of range for some reason, you don't get hurt. The way to combat what you say is simple: blast radius should be bigger than the trigger radius + the radius the Spy can run in the alotted time between the trigger and the actual explosion. Tada.

Being lighter with less gadgets: We're no RPG. We need SOME consistency. Else it becomes a guessing game based on luck which is exactly what we try to combat by getting rid of uncontrollable things like funny punches and lag charges.

I prefer medkit over normal auto-generation. Some auto-generation is fine, but only up to a certain limit.

[DreadStunLock]

Ok Frvge, let me set up a mine in real life, and I will probably draw a line of it's detonating radius, even when you get passed the detonation radius just 1mm, and run back, I would like to see you managing to stand up, because the shrapnel will probably make you bleed to death, and no matter how muscled up you are, against the shrapnel that won't help.

The window thing, you probably didn't get it, I mean an actual danger of firing your weapon:
For example, A mercenary is chasing a spy, he squeezes his trigger the bullets hit the window/wall and the bullets bounce off depending on it's trajectory and if that trajectory is straight it means the bullet will bounce of and might hit or even headshot the mercenary itself, get it?

Near the future? Ok that actually cleared stuff up that makes sense.

Adrenaline? Maybe you are right about the SCDA, but you haven't notice the fact that there is Adrenaline rush in SCCT, whenever a spy gets shot, he does run (wee) bit faster than usual and I don't see it really breaking the balance since the spy aggro will be a lot less in PS since we covered that the chaff through wall won't work (Thank you Mr.Mic, Haha Pusianka)

There should be no Auto-regeneration, there should be instead bleeding, bleeding to the point of where you can see and trail the blood.

Medkits? I think since we are in the future there should be a some sort of a "Liquid-health-tank-regeneration-think" And since it's in the future it especially shouldn't have "insta-heal" to the medkit.

Why not something more unique? How about:

A big box, with a big tube, and at the end of the tube there is a needle, through the tube there will be running somekind of a blue liquid (pardon George Lucas for copyright of the Blue Bacta) that will go inside the spy and gradually filling up his health, and not instantly, that will make the spy wait and be in danger.

Also we all know the infection that can bring if you don't seal the wound of where the healing process starts and if a spy runs off it get's ripped out and he can suffer some damage even after being healed, so why not do a penalty, for example:

Spy has 10% HP
Spy goes to a Medhub.
Spy gets healed to 40% HP
Spy has detected a mercenary and he is tazing him as soon as being detected and run off.
Spy doesn't get a full heal, he runs of with the needle being ripped off his hand and the wound isn't fully sealed. (That doesn't necesseraly should mean that the blood would give mercenaries a trail) It would simply mean the spy loses 5-10 or maybe even 15% of his health. But hey, that is still better than 10%, at least he gets away with 20%/25%/30% or whatever the damage penalty is.

Also what are your current plans for grenades being shot out? Will it be like in SCCT you can shoot 3 grenades instantly? Maybe you guys can make it so we can shoot as many as we can? Why not? If we shoot out of stupidity 5 smokes, 5 chaffs, 5 Flashbangs we left ourselfs useless.

[frvge]

1 Word: Epinephrine.

That's the same. In non-English-based countries it's adrenaline, from the Latin roots.

@Dread: we've covered most of those points like 2 years ago and I'm not really in the mood for doing that discusson all over. However, a few short lines:

Ricocheting bullets: we're not a simulation. It also adds luck into a strategic game. Luck is bad in a skill-based game. So no.

There's AFAIK no adrenaline rush in SCCT. Just a messed up animation for 1 sec. Besides, running with a bullet is usually slower (I use movies as a reference now, but meh).

The premise behind the small auto-generation is with small needles like in Half-Life 2. Basically what you describe.

Trails of blood break up the balance too much. Maybe a few small drips on the floor to indicate the Spy was hit at that point, but nothing like a trail.

No idea about the grenade system. Probably the same as SCCT. That worked ok.

[puuusianka]

Now I am more worried about the whole game then I was before reading this thread...