back to wall and rail camping -and other moves

Spekkio · September 22, 2007, 06:46:34 PM

I prefer leaving it alone until all the other changes are tested out first, and if rail camping is still a problem after that, then address it later.

My main preference would be making it possible to grab a merc while he's standing on a rail. I don't like the stop solution, either, because it likewise would look and feel silly when the player stops moving and randomly starts sliding in a particular direction.

B1nArY_001 · September 22, 2007, 07:17:28 PM

Spy could grab his legs and yank them out far enough that the merc falls catching his neck on the rail. SNAP! Ok... bad idea... The thought just made me laugh when I pictured the merc, arms flailing yanked out horizontal to the ground and dropping to the ground with his head catching on the rail. ;D

frvge · September 22, 2007, 07:17:36 PM

IMO, a merc on a rail is almost invincible if he can't be cammed. He sees if you try to grab the rail, he'll probably know when you as spy also move up on the rail.

What about an animation where the Spy pushes the Merc off the rail?

Farley4Fan · September 22, 2007, 08:33:20 PM

Good lord. Just make it where he moves back a fraction of an inch so this douche bag is happy. Oh yeah, and I am sure a spy will see how stupid the animation looks while he is running from the merc after he shocks him. ::) It won't change gameplay that much, it will just knock the freaking merc off of a rail. It won't delay him seconds like you say it will, maybe a fraction a thousandth of a second.

Plus you will adjust to the distance you are knocked back. You could always shorten the length of time a merc is shocked if you are so worried about the hundredth of a second you are soo worried about. You will adjust to the changes, you adjusted to the changes from PT to CT didn't you? Why wouldn't you adjust to the changes from CT to PS? It isn't that big of a deal, it really isn't. It fixes rail camping, which is a rather big problem.

If you were shocked by a sticky shocker that emits probably thousands of volts of electricity, don't you think you might flinch a little or take a step back? Honestly, it wouln't be aesthetically stupid.

InvisibleMan999 · September 22, 2007, 10:59:22 PM

Quote from: Spekkio on September 22, 2007, 06:46:34 PM
My main preference would be making it possible to grab a merc while he's standing on a rail.

That won't work.

The merc will see you real easy because he's overlooking the area. Not to mention the merc could probably just jump off the rail and onto the spies head. It's hard enough to sneak up to railgrab a stationary merc anyway, let alone one who is actually on top of the rail with a better view. railgrab is better as an ambush tactic that you lure the mercs into.

Gawain · September 22, 2007, 11:27:46 PM

on which maps might railcamping be a problem anyways? warehouse, bank, factory (main hall), ...
most times the map design on such maps sucks in general.
another effect of accessible rails is the possibility to get down quite quickly, museum exhibition for example. imo this adds too much vertical movement speed for the mercs, but it kinda balances out the stupid running-in-circle strats on museum.

Westfall · September 23, 2007, 08:03:15 AM

I know this is a little off topic, but we are making a whole set of new maps yea? We can really eliminate the maps we already have, or incorporate them later on. This should help the idea of rail-camping move to being obsolete. Why not just not make it a possibility at all? Can you really jump on a rail on a stairway and balance yourself, run around, jump to another rail? Yeah, I'm sure you could, but I bet you would get lit up if there were no walls for you to hold yourself up on. I don't think it should be possible. If we are making a completely new game with the same concepts as CT, why can't we just eliminate it all together. Make the rail an invisible wall or just make the rail too small for a merc to jump on. To allow spies to be able to jump on rails is the next task. I say eliminate merc camping on rails all together if it seems to be a problem right now. Worry about what the spy should be able to do.

InvisibleMan999 · September 23, 2007, 10:32:12 AM

Quote from: Gawain on September 22, 2007, 11:27:46 PM
on which maps might railcamping be a problem anyways?

River mall camping the initial rail is pretty good. You can cover the info desk with the sniper rifle and if using MT, pretty much pick up a spy any time he attempts to cross the map, except for that one vent on the first floor. If you have your partner watching that, then you're pretty much set. You can also rail camp on Aqua tech room or pirates, though I don't think it's too overpowering.

Really, though, I don't find rail camping to be a huge problem most of the time. It tends to be more of a deathmatch thing.

Spekkio · September 23, 2007, 06:02:06 PM

And we all know how great this game is for deathmatch...

Yes, River Mall can be an issue, but the part of the map you can railcamp isn't the part of the map where the objectives are. Basically, if you can get to the back then you have such a head start you're almost guarunteed an objective. Seriously, I think the whole rail camping thing needs to go on the back burner unless it becomes an issue in PS. Just don't make maps where you have to run down a long, relatively open corridor to reach objectives and we'll be fine.

Cyntrox · September 23, 2007, 10:51:07 PM

Quote from: Westfall-US on September 23, 2007, 08:03:15 AMCan you really jump on a rail on a stairway and balance yourself, run around, jump to another rail?

I know people that can, so then a super-trained secret spy should sure as hell be able to! Besides, it's a question of balance not realism.

goodkebab · September 24, 2007, 12:44:52 PM

can you guys think of alternative moves to replace split jump, back flip, neck break, bullcharge, and beserk?

Our most serious issue is to make this game different enough that it wont violate copyrights.

InvisibleMan999 · September 24, 2007, 01:25:25 PM

Quote from: goodkebab on September 24, 2007, 12:44:52 PM
can you guys think of alternative moves to replace split jump, back flip, neck break, bullcharge, and beserk?

Our most serious issue is to make this game different enough that it wont violate copyrights.

Neck break could just be holding a knife to the merc's throat and then slitting it.

Split jump probably doesn't even need to be in the game really. I mean there are so few spots it actually matters, that you may be able to get by just taking it out.

I don't figure that charging is going to get you in too much trouble, I mean a rifle charge is a fairly standard manuever, they shouldn't be able to copyright that. And as for berserk, if you wanted to go high tech, the merc could like electrify his suit or something and send out pulses of energy to shock the spy. Be kinda like a 360 taser or something.

As far as backflip, I doubt they can really put a copyright on basic acrobatic moves.

But really, I don't suspect you'll have copyright problems anyway. I don't think any of those things can actually be copyrighted. As long as you don't actually rip off the graphics from CT, you should be ok (I think). Then again, I'm not really a lawyer.

Gawain · September 24, 2007, 01:54:25 PM

is it really necessary to change that stuff?? i hope not.
besides, this is a non-commercial mod, so who gives a shit?

Cyntrox · September 24, 2007, 03:22:51 PM

Ubi might, if we steal their customers. And I think we should at least use different names for the moves...

And equipping the spy with a knife? I saw we rather use some kind of wire... Then it can be used for strangling too instead of neck break.

Farley4Fan · September 24, 2007, 03:47:01 PM

How about instead of a neck break, the spy uses his elbow to break the merc's spine? Backflip doesn't have to be changed, it isn't that big of a move for them to actually copyright it. Man I can't think of anything that would replace berserk that would look that different.