back to wall and rail camping -and other moves

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

How about instead of turning all the way around, the merc would just shoot backwards?

[Tidenburg]

Isnt this getting a bit overcomplicated? Just let them run on the rails and give them a meter which decreases as the move and shoot. They have to stop for it to recharge, and if the meter is empty then they fall.

[Spekkio]

can you guys think of alternative moves to replace  split jump,  back flip,  neck break, bullcharge, and beserk?

Our most serious issue is to make this game different enough that it wont violate copyrights.

If you want to keep the gameplay from CT SvM, then you can't change these. Besides, are you trying to say that Ubisoft copyrighted someone doing a back flip? Come on now. That's like saying Capcom copyrighted someone doing a jump kick with Street Fighter 2, so every fighting game since is in violation.

You guys needs to talk to lawyers because you're seriously getting way too paranoid about this copyright stuff.

[B1nArY_001]

can you guys think of alternative moves to replace  split jump,  back flip,  neck break, bullcharge, and beserk?

Our most serious issue is to make this game different enough that it wont violate copyrights.

If you want to keep the gameplay from CT SvM, then you can't change these. Besides, are you trying to say that Ubisoft copyrighted someone doing a back flip? Come on now.

You guys needs to talk to a lawyer because you're seriously getting way too paranoid about this copyright stuff.

As long as the move performs the same function it won't change the gameplay. The more about this game that is "different" while performing the same function game play wise the less of a case there is for copyright infringement. It is not being paranoid it is being smart.

One that could replace the neck would be to grab the merc from behind wrapping one arm around the neck and placing a foot in the small of the mercs back. You then yank back while kicking your foot out against the small of the back and pushing them onto the ground face first. The hips and legs wind up on the ground but the torso remains vertical held by the arm crooked around the neck. The move separates the lower lumbar from the pelvis breaking the spinal cord. The arm around the neck is for leverage and it keeps the windpipe closed to prevent a scream.

This is a kill sequence I learned in S.C.A.R.S. and there are several hundred variations depending on the circumstances. Most are based on surprise and nuetralizing the foe without alerting others to your presence. Most are designed to go against an armed foe when un-armed as well. If anyone has access to S.C.A.R.S. tapes or anything of that nature I think you'll find it a great resource on killing exactly how a spy would. Quickly, quietly and always brutally effective.

[neth]

I'd like to mention that now, when youre crouching as a spy and so is merc you cant do anything that could harm him even if you can see his back.

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

I'd like to mention that now, when youre crouching as a spy and so is merc you cant do anything that could harm him even if you can see his back.

Nope, you can grab him as you normally would, or knock him down.

[neth]

nope, you cant, you would have to stand up to do it.

[Spekkio]

One that could replace the neck would be to grab the merc from behind wrapping one arm around the neck and placing a foot in the small of the mercs back. You then yank back while kicking your foot out against the small of the back and pushing them onto the ground face first. The hips and legs wind up on the ground but the torso remains vertical held by the arm crooked around the neck. The move separates the lower lumbar from the pelvis breaking the spinal cord. The arm around the neck is for leverage and it keeps the windpipe closed to prevent a scream.

You're missing the point. There is only one correct way to snap a neck. Ubisoft didn't make this animation up; they got it from martial arts maneuvers. Are they copyrighted, too? If you are going to change any animations, it should be towards a direction of a more realistic and solid maneuver, ie one that would work in real-life. The stuff you mention might look cool, but it's completely far-fetched, just like when Sam holds a knife to someone's throat by performing an impossible maneuver (it's impossible because you'd have to have cerebral paulsey or something to not get out of it). Of the moves listed, this is the only thing that really has some openness to be improved animation wise, but adding your effects isn't the way to do it.

Likewise, how else are you going to have someone do a charge, split jump or backflip? These maneuvers are in other games prior to splinter cell. I don't see how you can have them done any other way.

Oh wait, in SCCT you can walk. We need to devise another action other than walking because Ubisoft has it copyrighted. Maybe spies should just float using this high-tech boot given to them.

PS will be using their own models, maps, textures, gadget names, gameplay, and maps. Some basic animations, like walking and running, can't be done any differently. Seriously, talk to some lawyers and stop being so fucking paranoid. Yes, it's based off of SCCT/SCPT, but that's if that were copyright infringement then we wouldn't have FPS #5,091,293,193 out because idsoftware would be suing everyone for copying Doom.

[B1nArY_001]

I'm not missing the point I understood perfectly. There is no reason not to change it from a neck to something else that fits the game but is not a plain neck twist. Which by the way, when done from the position and in the method the spies do it, requires immense physical strength and absolutely no resistance from the target. More often than not, when attempting to break a neck in this manner you wind up tearing and straining muscles in the neck rather than severing the spinal cord.

As someone who has spent the last 10 years practicing Kajukimbo and S.C.A.R.S. I can say with complete confidence that there is in fact several methods to break a neck. Not to mention innumerable other ways to disable/kill a target and none of those require a weapon other than your own body and the body of the target. Both of these combat systems are design for fast direct debilitation of your target S.C.A.R.S. even more so as it is not a "defense" system or an "art" like Karate and many others. It is a combat system that even the US special ops incorporate into their training. As such, these types of attacks are exactly what a character such as the spy would use.

[Spekkio]

By saying that there is only one correct way to do a maneuver, that means there is a singular best, efficient option. Sure there are multiple ways to snap a neck, but only one way will be the simplest and most reliable method.

[B1nArY_001]

By saying that there is only one correct way to do a maneuver, that means there is a singular best, efficient option. Sure there are multiple ways to snap a neck, but only one way will be the simplest and most reliable method.

Though this is off-topic in a sense, that is correct and incorrect. The best most reliable method is completely dependent on your attack vector, posture of target, type of protective gear the target is wearing, what kinds of weapons the target is armed with and more. Now if a grab is only going to be performed from behind then yes, one method would be best for the sake of animation/coding.

A rear naked choke and a knife to the ribs wouldn't be a bad idea either. The choke prevents the screams and if stabbed in the right location the lungs fill with blood in a matter of seconds preventing anything but an unintelligable rather quiet gurgle. Might be kinda creepy to hear your partner's death gurgle through the comms :P

[Spekkio]

The best most reliable method is completely dependent on your attack vector, posture of target, type of protective gear the target is wearing, what kinds of weapons the target is armed with and more.

Of course. But the attack angle and weapon that the merc is holding are always constant.

Keep in mind that the maneuver also has to allow for KOs. Sticking a knife in someone's side doesn't really allow for that.

[B1nArY_001]

The best most reliable method is completely dependent on your attack vector, posture of target, type of protective gear the target is wearing, what kinds of weapons the target is armed with and more.

Of course. But the attack angle and weapon that the merc is holding are always constant.

Keep in mind that the maneuver also has to allow for KOs. Sticking a knife in someone's side doesn't really allow for that.

Sure it does. Bonk him in the noggin or punch him in the back of the neck below the helmet instead of stabbing him.

[goodkebab]

thanx for the ideas Binary, and if you have links to vids ...all the better.

Spekkio,   PS is already banned from the UBI forums, so we at least need to consider having to make more changes.

also, its not 1 or 2 moves that we are taking that cause the copy infringement.   Its everything in  one package that will sum it up.  There have to be enough differances,  and the best way to do this,,, is to have all of the CT features,  but add our own.


-things like vertical ledge grabs like Colossus
-parallel wall jumps (jumping from wall to wall , ascending or descending)
-different styled visions  instead of thermal, use Xray  as suggested
-with MT,  instead of Red we use a different color (i want to use gold)
-neck breaks can be knife to the throat

Again, its the same functionality...but it does have to be different.  If we copied 1 or 2 things it would not matter and never hold up in court...but a lot of things remaining exactly the same is a problem for us.

[Spekkio]

I would argue that by making those changes, you are no longer keeping the fundamental gameplay of SvM. It will be a new game entirely. If you look at the changelog between PT and CT, the changes are quite minimal. However, the two games play entirely different.