Training Mode

[InvisibleMan999]

To prevent the merc from killing himself for EQ, I always thought a degrading amount of equipment would be nice. So maybe you get 3 mines with life 1, 2 mines with life 2 and 1 mine with life 3 or something.

At the very least, it's handing you diminishing returns. And you're wondering if it's really worth it to off yourself for a couple extra frags.

[neth]

Well mercs should be careful then and not kill themselves. I know it happens sometimes but you can mostly avoid it by not throwing nades like a maniac.

[Gawain]

we could give mercs a higher amount of eq at the beginning, but when they get killed (especially suidice) they respawn only with the gadget amounts that was left or with no nades etc at all and have to go back to their dead body to get it back. though there should be some replacement penalty for aggro spies.

[InvisibleMan999]

we could give mercs a higher amount of eq at the beginning, but when they get killed (especially suidice) they respawn only with the gadget amounts that was left or with no nades etc at all and have to go back to their dead body to get it back. though there should be some replacement penalty for aggro spies.

I don't really feel like spies need any equipment penalty. Dying is sort of in their job description.

[Gawain]

with aggro penalty i mean that after you kill a merc, he comes back with full eq.

[B1nArY_001]

I wouldn't put any penalties on killing a merc for spy. A good merc is nearly impossible to kill. He will allow himself to be jumped or cammed before being necked if an objective is at stake.

Besides the fact that killing mercs by going full aggro is hard against a good player (and usually requires you expend a large amount of nades), limiting play style... well there's no reason for penalizing a player for that. Hell, quite often at least one spy dies in the process - that seems penalty enough.

Not to mention generally the defending team has less lives than the infiltrating team which kinda shows they are expected to die more (the infiltrators that is).

[greenday5494]

i say:
yes, yes, and more yes.
if you want at least a semi-successful mod, your gonna need a training mode, speccially for this type of game. mabye incoporate the same kind of system Fortress Forever uses, it has little Help system that pops up at the right time, saying the right stuff, while a certain thing happens. for example, in FF, an engineer is building a SG, a little MSG pops up saying:
a engineer is building a Sentry Gun, protect him, and help him upgrade his gun! (not word-for-word)
and, place a training mode with a room, etc, saying how do to certain things, possibly teeling them you need to think (lol) and make some stragties, work as a team, etc. other things, too.

[greenday5494]

plus, FF is a unoffcial mod, not a full game, so it definatly IS possible. but, FF is running on the Source engine, but i think it was done with C++ anyhow. (i hope you guys know what C++ is....)

[Spekkio]

I wouldn't put any penalties on killing a merc for spy. A good merc is nearly impossible to kill. He will allow himself to be jumped or cammed before being necked if an objective is at stake.

I disagree. A good merc is nearly impossible to eliminate, but it's not nearly impossible to get a grab or blow him up with his own mine. We also can't anticipate how the bug fixes will affect balance. I would guess that spies are going to have an easier time in general, but only time will tell.

A dead merc should absolutely refill his equipment. This is what presents a strategic choice to the spies if and when they get a grab. Snapping that neck refills the merc's stuff, but usually gives you more time to do whatever and brings him one step closer to elimination. KO'ing him won't refill anything and still puts him out of commission shortly, but later on he has lives to spare for things like suiciding.

Something that might lead to more deaths on the merc side is taking away the ability for both teams to heal your partner (and taking away health regen for spies). This means that if a merc gets jumped or falls too far, he has to treck over to a healthpack to heal up. This, along with better hit detection, would theoretically increase the amount of kills the spies get from jumps.

Also, let's keep something in perspective here: mercs can only suicide for equipment if both spies die at the same time, or if one spy is already dead and the second spy gets killed. This opportunity doesn't arise very often. We can reduce the "one spy is already dead" suicides by not allowing you to see how many lives your opponents have left.

[Cyntrox]

We can reduce the "one spy is already dead" suicides by not allowing you to see how many lives your opponents have left.

I like it, but it should be toggelable. That way the teams have to communicate in order to know what the status of the other team is.

[Gawain]

"they pwned us because they were better at counting" any1? XD

[B1nArY_001]

I wouldn't put any penalties on killing a merc for spy. A good merc is nearly impossible to kill. He will allow himself to be jumped or cammed before being necked if an objective is at stake.

I disagree. A good merc is nearly impossible to eliminate, but it's not nearly impossible to get a grab or blow him up with his own mine. We also can't anticipate how the bug fixes will affect balance. I would guess that spies are going to have an easier time in general, but only time will tell.

I guess, but mercs will probably be a bit more deadly as we aren't anticipating having the hit detection issue that allows a merc to unload a full clip into a spy and not have him die. In PS running around in front of a merc will be a much more risky prospect.

We'll just have to wait till we can play test it to know for sure :-\

[InvisibleMan999]

"they pwned us because they were better at counting" any1? XD

I always thought it'd be kinda nice if there was a feature by which your teammate could give up one of his lives so that you could respawn if you were out of lives. That way counting lives doesn't matter as much, unless it's the last spy on his last life.

[neth]

IMO there should be no info like: "neth has brocken binary's neck" or "...neutralized..." etc.
When I played the game for the first time (wow, that was long time ago) and was really excited about this cool merc helmet, things like: "rebooting" - when shot in the head. Suddenly out of nowhere theres this big white sentence giving an info about who neutralized or killed someone. I was like: "who the fuck said that ?!, where r u hiding evil ?!"

so I think it would be more challenging if there was no info like this

[Gawain]

no. this just gives the guys using mics even more advantage