balancing of sticky cams

[Farley4Fan]

The reason I suggested network cams is so less people are likely to take sticky cams every game.  Giving Sticky cams network abilities would make people take them even more.  Stickies need no change or boost.  What we do need though is more gadgets, more gadgets that are actually useful to make the games vary more gadgetwise.

[Gawain]

omg almost no players use snares, camo, tazer and flares because of the very limited amount of slots and bad gadget balancing. how about fix that first?
+ ct has much depth to offer, how about getting "pro" first (thinking of teams like kronf and led)?
i don't know much players that are significantly better than me, and i really don't consider myself pro, because there's so much to improve in numerous areas. maybe the game get's boring if you don't play competively/with better opponents and try to learn or work out new strats.

[Farley4Fan]

Sure why not?  Wasn't it already decided that somehow we would do that? 

[InvisibleMan999]

omg almost no players use snares, camo, tazer and flares because of the very limited amount of slots and bad gadget balancing. how about fix that first?

I like snares on some levels.

Camo, tazer and flares aren't taken because of equipment slots. That's solely because they suck. Seriously, on PC, it's so easy to pick out a guy using camo (not to mention the EAX bullshit). Tazer is so gimped it can't even stop a spy running right at you with the elbow, and flares... well it's hard to describe how crappy flares are.

+ ct has much depth to offer, how about getting "pro" first (thinking of teams like kronf and led)?
i don't know much players that are significantly better than me, and i really don't consider myself pro, because there's so much to improve in numerous areas. maybe the game get's boring if you don't play competively/with better opponents and try to learn or work out new strats.

We all thought PT was a good game, then CT improved on it with new gadgets and other enhancements. Well, it's not a matter of it getting boring, it's a matter of enhancing it. New options (so long as they're not must take options) are good for the game.  I figure PS will be the next step in CT's evolution. While we dont' want to redefine the core gameplay, like DA did, we do want to enhance it. More options, more tactics, and generally more depth.

While you can go and say "this gadget is redundant" or "that gadget is redundant", remember that the heartbeat sensor felt really redundant at one time. You're like "why do I need this? I already have spy bullets." However the two proved to have two different functions and were good in different areas. And it just worked out.

I imagine a lot of new gadgets here may just work out too.

[Farley4Fan]

^^^ Exactly what I mean.  Why make a clone of CT exactly?  You can always go and play CT.  We need to enhance it and make it better with balanced features that don't change the core gameplay.  And if it does change the gameplay, it makes it better gameplay.  And I am sure that a few new gadgets won't turn it into DA.

[InvisibleMan999]

And I am sure that a few new gadgets won't turn it into DA.

Yeah, we should probably remember that lack of gadgets made DA what it is.

[Gawain]

i simply think that it's best to balance out the existing ones (and replace flares with some form of phosphorous/incendinary nades) first and see how it works out before adding new ones. this + mt (mr.mics way or ct's one with no night vision?) + weapons (pt rifle or more balanced uzi/shotgun?) are way more important questions at this stage of development.

^^^ Exactly what I mean.  Why make a clone of CT exactly?  You can always go and play CT.  We need to enhance it and make it better with balanced features that don't change the core gameplay.  And if it does change the gameplay, it makes it better gameplay.  And I am sure that a few new gadgets won't turn it into DA.

no ffs. ct is laggy, buggy, crappy console port with outdated graphics and insufficient gadget balance. believe me, with new graphic and way few bugs and the fixed gadgets/visions, ps will play like a way enhanced ct.

And I am sure that a few new gadgets won't turn it into DA.

Yeah, we should probably remember that lack of gadgets made DA what it is.

the lack of gadgets/ss was one big part of the disaster, but there were other important flaws in game design.

[Spekkio]

omg almost no players use snares, camo, tazer and flares because of the very limited amount of slots and bad gadget balancing. how about fix that first?
+ ct has much depth to offer, how about getting "pro" first (thinking of teams like kronf and led)?
i don't know much players that are significantly better than me, and i really don't consider myself pro, because there's so much to improve in numerous areas. maybe the game get's boring if you don't play competively/with better opponents and try to learn or work out new strats.

I like snares too; however, I don't use them unless I'm partnering with specific people because you have to make up for the sacrifice of generally more useful gadgets.

[InvisibleMan999]

i simply think that it's best to balance out the existing ones (and replace flares with some form of phosphorous/incendinary nades) first and see how it works out before adding new ones. this + mt (mr.mics way or ct's one with no night vision?) + weapons (pt rifle or more balanced uzi/shotgun?) are way more important questions at this stage of development.

Oh, I agree. But for the most part, those discussions have sort of been laid to rest.

I think we all agreed Mr.Mic's MT variant was great and that we should try that. Until we've actually tried that, there's not a heck of a lot to talk about there anymore. I like that fix, and so does mostly everyone else. Now we just have to see how it actually works.

As far as weapons. I don't have too much objection to a PT style rifle. A part of me likes separate weapons, and I really think that at least getting the sniper scope should cost you something (either make it a gadget add on, or have it weaken the weapon somehow), mainly because sniping is crazy powerful in the PC version. It sorta sucked in the xbox version, but in PC good snipers are crazy, so you should definitely have to pay something for the added versatility sniping gives you. But that's about it. I'm not really in love with the shotgun or uzi, especially if we make the taser better, it'll probably replace the shotgun's usefulness.

[Gawain]

my suggestion:
-5 slots
-pt rifle but without scope
-scope (and tazer) as a gadget

EDIT: with this system the mercs are more flexible in gadget lodout, but not really stronger on most maps. the spies can make better use of their 5th slot resulting in a gentle boost for the spies.

[InvisibleMan999]

my suggestion:
-5 slots
-pt rifle but without scope
-scope (and tazer) as a gadget

sounds good to me.

[Westfall]

how are you going to make a scope a separate gadget? I say nay to this suggestion.

[Gawain]

how are you going to make a scope a separate gadget? I say nay to this suggestion.

scope = attachment to gun like tazer. what objections do you have?

[Spekkio]

I have the same objection to it. The scope is an inherent property of the rifle.

[InvisibleMan999]

how are you going to make a scope a separate gadget? I say nay to this suggestion.

Easy. Scope is one of your gadget options, so instead of smoke grenades you take a gadget called "rifle scope".

Then it's just a matter of a simple 'if' statement in the code.

When you hit the zoom button. If you have a scope in your possession, you get to zoom (and snipe).

If not, then nothing happens and the zoom button effectively does nothing.

As far as scopes and being inherent properties of rifles, attachable scopes are pretty common. Heck most of the guns in the later rainbow six games had scopes you could attach. So it makes perfect sense.