each team with one set eq?

[Farley4Fan]

No, this shouldn't turn into DA with only one gadget that you can decide.

Drones are an interesting idea, but they would have to be different than DA's drones.

[seefoo.]

you missed the point papa.  its regular 4 eq slots + camo (for spies) + mask (for mercs). 

as merc you take:
frags, mines, traps, backpack . intact eq: mask

as spy you take:
smoke, chaff, flash, camera . intact eq: camo

its basically like the 5 eq some people have been talking about.  only that your 5th eq is already picked for you.  everyone can use mask and camo at some point in the game.  the camo has limited energy as the mask has certain amount of gas.  just like mask you cant use camo anymore if the energy runs out, unless you die.

if you think camo/mask are imba, just can change the eq.  each with limited energy
camo/tazer
camo/phos
camo/camnet
camo/drone

[Farley4Fan]

Oh, read it wrong.  I would rather have it be just 5 gadgets you choose and not be forced to take camnet.  Same thing with gasmask.

[AgentX_003]

Woot, Seefoo is back :)!



**off topic but id thought id ask anyway now that your presently on the forums again **



Has it yet been decided if your GUI for the lobby is the final decision as the layout ?

[frvge]

No, but we're working on it.

[Spekkio]

I don't really want to derail this into yet another MT whine thread, but I think seefoo's idea has some merit to fixing the ability. Everyone presumed that camo is the natural hard-counter to MT, so giving the spies the innate ability to use it would certainly help balance it without having to go nuts on MT itself.

[Gawain]

if camo doesn't allow crouching undetected in normal speed, it's not that useful against mt (if it was more people would take it).
the current energy system for camo is way better than your suggestion.

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

Also, make camo work on all movement speeds, but make it drain more power the faster you go.
Spy Running (with rolling) 5 seconds or so.
Spy going slowly, say 30 seconds.

[InvisibleMan999]

I don't really like the camo as a counter to MT. It never really worked even back in CT and not just because of EAX, but because you can easily toggle MT and EMF easily enough.

I prefer just going with Mr.Mics MT where the spy is invisible when motionless and only running produces the box effect. That'll work nicely to fix MT.

As far as integral camo, what if we just made it so that a motionless spy using camo is completely invisible. Not just transparent mind you, but totally undetectable via normal vision (that is, he's not even rendered at all while stationary).

[Gawain]

imo he should be totally invisible in medium range but not in close range, as it would be totally awesome for grabs. heck, you could stand in the middle of the room when and a chaffed merc has no chance to see you. hmm talking about it, this sounds awesome XD
if you can still be detected by laser (and camnet still get's emf) it could be balanced (chaff would become a boost, and it already got a nerf with not working through walls). it may sound totally insane, but it's not that op in avp where the pred is almost perfectly invisible to the humans. with camo workling like this, there could be a real stealth possibility besides cams to knock out a merc in late game. my biggest concern is that everyone will stary cycling through visions all the time which would be kinda stupid...

[InvisibleMan999]

imo he should be totally invisible in medium range but not in close range, as it would be totally awesome for grabs. heck, you could stand in the middle of the room when and a chaffed merc has no chance to see you. hmm talking about it, this sounds awesome XD

Yeah, though remember, camo still runs on a battery, so it's not like you can sit and wait forever for a merc to come along. Also a merc can still physically hit you and realize there's an obstruction, and mercs will likely be trained to berserk or charge into such things when they happens, so I don't see it being that overpowered.

if you can still be detected by laser (and camnet still get's emf) it could be balanced (chaff would become a boost, and it already got a nerf with not working through walls).

Well I had planned on removing EMF from camnet, but the laser would certainly work to detect you if you were camoed. Really camo is your only shot at bypassing a camnet undetected, so I don't think camnet should be able to detect camo, at least not easily. Maybe it still has its laser it can sweep a camoed spy with, or of course, the camo blur effect still exists if a spy is moving. He only becomes completely invisible while stationary.

it may sound totally insane, but it's not that op in avp where the pred is almost perfectly invisible to the humans. with camo workling like this, there could be a real stealth possibility besides cams to knock out a merc in late game. my biggest concern is that everyone will stary cycling through visions all the time which would be kinda stupid...

Yeah, the only real thing I worry about if camo becomes automatic equipment is that it may actually lose value, because everyone will be on the look out for it, which kinda sucks. So I'm thinking maybe we should keep camo suit as a gadget, and not automatic. We probably don't want camo to be overused, it should be more of a surprise when your spy turns on camo.

[Gawain]

yeah you're totally right, camo should be the counter to camnet so no visions for camnet.
maybe camo should work with every speed (should drain more energy though);
at least the faster you move the more blurry it should get. this could also help against snipers (like in bf2142). the effect should probably be that you are totally invisible (exect for laser, emf and moving lights like flashlight) when not in motion, invisible while crouching in medium distance or running in big distance.
bumping into invisible spies reminds me of team fortress 2 where it is a huge problem for the spies :D

[InvisibleMan999]

yeah you're totally right, camo should be the counter to camnet so no visions for camnet.
maybe camo should work with every speed (should drain more energy though);
at least the faster you move the more blurry it should get. this could also help against snipers (like in bf2142). the effect should probably be that you are totally invisible (exect for laser, emf and moving lights like flashlight) when not in motion, invisible while crouching in medium distance or running in big distance.
bumping into invisible spies reminds me of team fortress 2 where it is a huge problem for the spies :D

I'd be a little worried about camo while running, simply because it could be too nasty of an aggro tactic. Drop a chaff, then camo up and start circling the merc. He can't turn on any visions and he can barely see you through the chaff. Be a fairly easy neck break I think. Moving while fast crouching is fine for a stealth gadget. About the only change I'd like is that you could take a drop with camo on and it stays on. That way you could drop from the tech room roof or something and keep your camo on. I'm thinking maybe that camo could stay active until you make noise or something. Anything that would ping the reticule could disable camo.

I do like the idea how varying speeds change your visibility. Like stationary could be completely invisible, slow crouch could be barely visible and fast crouch could be how camo is now.

[Spekkio]

The more I think about it, the more I like seefoo's suggestion.

[Gawain]

i also like 4 slots + camo, but with the current energy system.

what about drones? i hate that i can't do anything to get spies out of vents, but i think it's rather bad map design (shootable vents like station or the half ceiling in orph are way better).