Camnet

[Gawain]

and cams that dont detect camo

could work out with the current 4 slot system, though it takes away some skill...

[InvisibleMan999]

probably the best change for the gameplay is more bypassable passive defenses (pan-rotating cams, motion sensors that don't detect slow mode movement, lasers you  can roll through) + replacing camnet with some kind of drone or leaving it out completely.

Well, I don't really like completely bypassable defenses too much, because then the merc receives little to no clues against a stealthy spy.

I actually liked PTs set up a bit more where you had a lot of defenses, so when you hear "Security failure" you have to go and manually check a bunch of places. About all I'd ask for is maybe a more silent way of disabling security. Maybe a silencer for the SS or something as a gadget, since it's generally hard not to be heard when you start knocking out defenses. It'd be nice if you could do it silently, and the merc only knew which sensor/camera got knocked out if he went and checked. This only really works when you have a lot of passive security. The main problem with CT was that security was so slim, when you saw a failure you pretty much immediately knew where it was.

[frvge]

Silencer so you dont hear the SS is nice. Only a visible warning is generated but no 'zapped out' sound. So not possible to pinpoint via EAX.

[Gawain]

It'd be nice if you could do it silently, and the merc only knew which sensor/camera got knocked out if he went and checked. This only really works when you have a lot of passive security. The main problem with CT was that security was so slim, when you saw a failure you pretty much immediately knew where it was.

yeah it's no real guessing game atm on most maps.

why don't you like bypassable passive defences? it takes way more time to get around them (+may make some noise) so the mercs on patrol have a bigger time window to get stealthy spies. it's only bad for camping mercs...

[neth]

Silencer so you dont hear the SS is nice. Only a visible warning is generated but no 'zapped out' sound. So not possible to pinpoint via EAX.

Perhaps there would be no sound when you take your wpn out


PS. EAX is the worst thing ever happened to this game.

[InvisibleMan999]

why don't you like bypassable passive defences? it takes way more time to get around them (+may make some noise) so the mercs on patrol have a bigger time window to get stealthy spies. it's only bad for camping mercs...

Well, as Kebab said, it's a balance issue on a lot of maps. So having generically bypassed defenses could be difficult. Sometimes, you want the defenses set up in such a way that you have to generate a failure warning to bypass that section, so the mercs get a little advanced warning.

Though I do like the idea of camnet letting you pass cameras, I'm not sure about the slow move past presence sensors or always being able to roll through lasers.

I'm not 100% sure it would unbalance anything, but it sounds like a potentially dangerous change.

It really should probably be left in the map maker's hands. Because the passive defenses need to be fine tuned in this game based on the map. Larger maps need more and tighter defenses, while smaller ones probably don't need defenses at all.

I'd like the map maker to have ultimate control over lots of the map variables, stuff like:

-Whether hacking a given security panel (not an objective) produces a "hacking in progress" alert or not.
-Whether disabling a camera produces a "security failure"
-Possibly two types of motion sensors, one that auto detects and another that you can sneak by while going slow.

And so forth.

PS. EAX is the worst thing ever happened to this game.

Yeah, Lets have EAX die a horrible death. Standard sound for everyone, regardless of what sound card you have.

[Gawain]

Larger maps need more and tighter defenses, while smaller ones probably don't need defenses at all.
I'd like the map maker to have ultimate control over lots of the map variables, stuff like:
-Whether hacking a given security panel (not an objective) produces a "hacking in progress" alert or not.
-Whether disabling a camera produces a "security failure"
-Possibly two types of motion sensors, one that auto detects and another that you can sneak by while going slow.
And so forth.

well let's see how well the map makers do. i expect great maps from zedblade (and maybe spekkio?) :D

[Daybreak]

We are forgetting that a security failure, is practically a notice that tells us where the spy is. Most experienced mercs know that a when a failure occurs they know exactly which one it is and a pretty good idea where the spy is located.

The need to depend on a security failure to know where the spy is should not be necessary. Almost 100% of the time a security failure occurs is right before the hack a terminal or attack an objective. So why even have that feature? To alert the merc a split second before hand?

It comes down to map design. A map such as Orphanage or Factory can be made with plenty of Defenses that can be either by passed through stealth. Everymap should be made accordingly. Applying the CCTV system to a map like Factory could prove useful at trying to find the spys who are being sneaky, but unlike CAMNET, which is the all seeing eye in the sky, spies are still trying to avoid detection and can. It is rare that a spy can sneak by CAMNET without being seen. Which is why it's practically way overpowered with someone who can use it. Too many visions, too many options, makes it as I said just another Merc to look out for.

With CCTV, spies are already aware of the threat and can get by with a little sneakyness.

Camnet should have been CCTV. Just not with visions and the ability to shoot them out with a warning for the merc or with OCP and no warning.

[kronf]

Camnet in ct was like uzi, overpowered, not fun to use, not fun to play against. These 2 things simply don't belong to this game. I don't know what you gonna do with camnet, but I'm against making it a free gadget. Forcing you to use gadget that many people hate is stupid. Standing and switching cameras is not what this game is about. Camnet shouldn't be essential, its a gadget you choose to help you find spies or you don't choose. Personally I'm for removing it altogether.

[Spekkio]

Camnet in ct was like uzi, overpowered, not fun to use, not fun to play against. These 2 things simply don't belong to this game. I don't know what you gonna do with camnet, but I'm against making it a free gadget. Forcing you to use gadget that many people hate is stupid. Standing and switching cameras is not what this game is about. Camnet shouldn't be essential, its a gadget you choose to help you find spies or you don't choose. Personally I'm for removing it altogether.

Well said, but in the absence of a good replacement gadget, the 2nd best option is to take away the specialty visions and be more careful about where camnet goes. The thing is, it's not like the individual merc has a choice where camnet goes like he does with spy traps or mines. The map maker tells him "here's your camnet, take it or leave it."

I do agree that using camnet makes gameplay stale on both ends. Merc hides in obscure corner and flips through cameras until he sees spy. It takes away the whole active hunting part of merc that was in PT/exists for non-camnet users, which in turn makes the mercs much less vulnerable on the whole. But it's damn useful, and the alternative is planting down 3 spy traps that are wasted in the first 30 sec of the game by auto-remove, so I use it.

I still stand by what I said 2-3 pages ago: all this stuff about looking through passive cams and whatnot is terrible. I really cannot express in writing how much I truly hope that this is all just brainstorming and not something that is actually going to be put into the game.

@Daybreak:

Security failures on their own don't give away spies. What makes security failures bad is that you can hear the sticky shocker go off from almost anywhere in the map. That means that even if you don't hear it go off, you will know where the spy is. If PS fixes the sound adequately, I am against giving the spies a silent way to disable alarms. The fixed sound will add a new depth to stealth gameplay of using recon to make sure a merc is beyond the sound vicinity before shooting stuff out, and giving them an OCP or whatever will just take that depth away.

The need to depend on a security failure to know where the spy is should not be necessary. Almost 100% of the time a security failure occurs is right before the hack a terminal or attack an objective. So why even have that feature? To alert the merc a split second before hand?

This is true in quite a few CT maps, but it was not necessarily true in PT maps, which I believe were far superior in design concept.

[seefoo.]

i dont like camnet much either but if it does stay ingame...
here goes another one of my dumb ideas lols.  what if camnet was deployed?  mercs have 3 cams or so and can put anywhere.  can be disabled and/or chaffed by spies.  so ya spies can steal them like spy traps or not.  can do long setup time/amount of camnets/duration/ect for balance.  oh and fov is limited as well not like ct net where 360 up down all over i see you with my big ass eye camnet so placement is key.

[kronf]

Might work as long as its not a forced gadget.

[Spekkio]

i dont like camnet much either but if it does stay ingame...
here goes another one of my dumb ideas lols.  what if camnet was deployed?  mercs have 3 cams or so and can put anywhere.  can be disabled and/or chaffed by spies.  so ya spies can steal them like spy traps or not.  can do long setup time/amount of camnets/duration/ect for balance.  oh and fov is limited as well not like ct net where 360 up down all over i see you with my big ass eye camnet so placement is key.

This also could work. Also, it works in a balance perspective because if you shoot it somewhere with a bigger view, the spy will have easier access to shooting it out, and it'll give you much less of an idea of where the spy is.

[Gawain]

just remove camnet, boost spytraps and see how it turns out.
drones could be a handy tool on big maps (to take over some patrol functions) or maps with a big open room (overview), but aren't (and don't need to) be everywhere on the map. so we can easily add them later without any changes to map design (except spawn embargo).

[neth]

What makes security failures bad is that you can hear the sticky shocker go off from almost anywhere in the map.

I cant hear, I dont use eax