footsteps > hbs

[Farley4Fan]

We need COD4 sniping in this game with 50 cal power  ;D

Sniping needs some more kickback.  It also needs to have a better breath holding system.  When you are out of breath that thing needs to go way out of wack.  It depends on how long you hold your breath though...  Sniping is just too easy to use at medium or even close range sometimes.   One way we could cut down on that is the kickback, the zoom distances, and give more unstability while moving or aiming - make it only completely stable while holding your breath.

[Gawain]

there's no real need to nerf anything. if you are in middle range and let the merc snipe you, you played bad or generally suck at this game. if you are on mid distance and a merc knows where you are, you better taze+flash/smoke/chaff him and run for your life.
i think with smoother aiming people wouldn't use zoom so much anyways.

[InvisibleMan999]

Sniping needs some more kickback.  It also needs to have a better breath holding system.  When you are out of breath that thing needs to go way out of wack.  It depends on how long you hold your breath though...  Sniping is just too easy to use at medium or even close range sometimes.   One way we could cut down on that is the kickback, the zoom distances, and give more unstability while moving or aiming - make it only completely stable while holding your breath.

The hold breath mechanic doesn't do much. All that does is screw people who are slow to aim. But I mean, who cares... being slow to aim is a penalty all by itself since it takes you longer to get the head shot. I fail to see the need for the "Oops you took too long, now your crosshair goes to hell and you miss" mechanic in the game. It makes the sniper rifle a harder weapon for a newbie to use, but does nothing to really weaken it in the hands of a pro. Anti-newbie mechanics are not needed at all. Newbies nerf themselves. By taking 3 seconds to line up a headshot instead of half a second, thats enough of a penalty.

As far as nerfing zoom distances... um wtf? It's a sniper rifle. It's supposed to be good at long range. Zooming should be a main capability.

What it shouldn't become is a medium range weapon. If a spy elbows you and starts running you should go to the scope, you should be using autofire. Unless the spy is running there in sight for a second or two, you really shouldn't have a great opportunity to snipe him. As it is currently, taking a snap shot snipe is going to probably inflcit way more damage than autofire, even if you just hit him in the body. Not to mention it's more accurate.

[Farley4Fan]

As far as nerfing zoom distances... um wtf? It's a sniper rifle. It's supposed to be good at long range. Zooming should be a main capability.

yeah, umm, no shit?  That's why I suggested LONGER zoom distances so it's harder to snipe up close and easier to snipe at long range.  I should have made that a little more clear I guess, I forgot to say longer.

[Spekkio]

Invisible,

Fact of the matter is, most of this game's action occurs at medium to short range. This is what makes the Uzi extremely powerful in a lot of different situations.

I really don't think that something which takes quite a bit of skill to accomplish (the quick-snipe headshot) should be nerfed. On top of that, sniping can be negated through the use of flashbangs and chaff. No other weapon has any of its functions disabled through spy equipment.

If a merc decides to use the sniper at close range, good for him. That's his choice as a player. Your argument against it is simply that he shouldn't because it's a sniper rifle, which is a subjective "rule" that you made up. You complain that if you run straight at a merc that he can quick snipe you. Why are you running straight at a merc from his FOV?

Papa,

I also don't think that the sniper recoil needs to be changed at all. What I would like to see is the sway disappear. Sniper sway is good for single-player games, but for MP it's better to aim for consistent mechanics.

Really, I'd like to see the following:

-Flash is not negated by going back into snipe mode (I think that this will provide enough of a nerf that you are looking for, invisible).
-remove sway
-This goes without saying being that it's a new engine, but fix the dumb auto-aim where "sweeping" the crosshair results in easier headshots. This also works for the shotgun.

[frvge]

No other weapon has any of its functions disabled through spy equipment.

I could name: reloading of all weapons when chaffed, mines (that's a weapon IMO) are disabled when chaffed.

[Spekkio]

By weapon I meant guns. By functions I meant features while firing it. The rifle also has its reload disabled through chaff, so the fact that all guns behave like this is moot. The sniper rifle has a specific feature, sniping, that can be disabled through chaff and flashbangs while the other guns will always work so long as there is ammo in the magazine.

Which is yet another reason why I wanted a rifle-only system, but we're not going to get into that here :).

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

Aggreed.

[Gawain]

Which is yet another reason why I wanted a rifle-only system, but we're not going to get into that here :).

hopefully.

-This goes without saying being that it's a new engine, but fix the dumb auto-aim where "sweeping" the crosshair results in easier headshots. This also works for the shotgun.

is this really part of ct's game mechanics? did you really try it out? i got the same feeling but i'm not that sure.

[InvisibleMan999]

Fact of the matter is, most of this game's action occurs at medium to short range. This is what makes the Uzi extremely powerful in a lot of different situations.

Well, the uzi is your general purpose gun. It certainly shouldn't kill as fast as a sniper shot, and it should be moderately useful at medium to short range, with only limited effectiveness at long range. As it is now, the uzi is probably slightly too accurate at long range, so it may require a max accuracy nerf if the rifle is nerfed a bit. 

I really don't think that something which takes quite a bit of skill to accomplish (the quick-snipe headshot) should be nerfed. On top of that, sniping can be negated through the use of flashbangs and chaff. No other weapon has any of its functions disabled through spy equipment.

Well, I'd like to keep the skill in sniping, just put it in a different spot. Basically sniping would become a bit more tactical, where it helps if you know where the spy is coming, however in my system, there wouldn't be any sway after you wait a second or two in snipe mode, and the rifle would be more responsive, so you could actually get head shots easier if you're ready. The current rifle as it is now, isn't a very effective sniping weapon, because of the sway/hold breath thing, but it's really good if you use it for quick snap shots.

Really, I'd like to make it more of a tactical sniping weapon, rather than the pro-twitch skill weapon it is now. I could even envision adding a few other enhancements to the scoped view, like some shadow inversion after you've had it out for a second or two, so you can better snipe spies in the dark. Or possibly just allow the laser to be used while zoomed. As the long range killer, it should have some extra detection capabilities. 

This as I said, may require autofire get a boost, because people won't be able to rely on the scope to handle medium range combat anymore.

As far as chaff/flash,

I really don't think that chaff should stop people from sniping, as it doesn't stop any other weapon from firing. Flashes should create a blind sniper, as you'd expect, though shouldn't do anything else to sniping mode. Only thing that should probably take you out of snipe mode is getting grabbed, elbowed or shocked.

If a merc decides to use the sniper at close range, good for him. That's his choice as a player. Your argument against it is simply that he shouldn't because it's a sniper rifle, which is a subjective "rule" that you made up. You complain that if you run straight at a merc that he can quick snipe you. Why are you running straight at a merc from his FOV?

Well it's not so much running at the merc, more like running away from the merc, or even just stopping to hit the merc with the SS or something. It just rather annoys me that it's all rifle players do is just go to sniper mode all the time, except the spy is literally in their face. While the weapon does take skill, it's all twitch skills and not really tactical skill and the weapon just doesn't feel like a sniper rifle. I'd like to make it more of a tactical weapon (as a sniper rifle should be) instead of a weapon solely based on FPS skills.

As far as subjective "rule", the way the weapons are supposed to go is: Shotgun is the best at short range, uzi is the best at medium and sniper is the best at long range. But quite frankly, the sniper is best at any range except point blank if you've got the twitch skills required to use it. The sniper as it is now is the uber gun with a bunch of anti-newbie stuff, like the sway and breathing key, out there just to make it really difficult to use in terms of twitch skills required. And if we were playing a straight up FPS game, that'd be fine, but given that this game is supposed to be more strategy oriented, I just don't think a weapon with the rifle's current paradigm fits well. 

Your weapon should reflect what tactical position you want to play. A rifle user is going to be a sniping, picking off spies from the distance, but weak up close. The uzi is going to be a general purpose weapon, decent at everything, but not particularly great anything in particular. The shotgun naturally sucks at long range and blows people's heads off at close range. And that's a tactical paradigm that's fun to play and adapt to. 

I always saw the rifle as a weapon that was designed with console controls in mind, and ended up getting thrown out of balance by mouse control.

[Farley4Fan]

Papa,

I also don't think that the sniper recoil needs to be changed at all. What I would like to see is the sway disappear. Sniper sway is good for single-player games, but for MP it's better to aim for consistent mechanics.
Really, I'd like to see the following:

-Flash is not negated by going back into snipe mode (I think that this will provide enough of a nerf that you are looking for, invisible).
-remove sway
-This goes without saying being that it's a new engine, but fix the dumb auto-aim where "sweeping" the crosshair results in easier headshots. This also works for the shotgun.

I disagree there.  COD4 has a great balanced sniper system.  ( the only problem is that most maps are designed for medium to close range fighting and it isn't designed for that )  The sway is great on MP.  You have to time your shots very well because if you aren't holding your breath it can be difficult to get a headshot, or even just a hit.

The rest I agree with, except for the removing sway suggestion.  That would just make it too easy to snipe.

[Spekkio]

Invisible, I think you're exaggerating the amount of times people do what you say, and you're certainly exaggerating the amount of times it actually results in a headshot.

As far as the "tactical" mindset you have: while that sounds good in theory, in reality you often don't know where the spy is coming from. The ability to quickly adapt to a situation (ie: go into snipe mode) is integral to getting those pesky spies.

[InvisibleMan999]

Invisible, I think you're exaggerating the amount of times people do what you say, and you're certainly exaggerating the amount of times it actually results in a headshot.

Well, your average player doesn't do that, but pretty much play any good player and that's what they do. You'll rarely ever see them use autofire, except when you're right up in their face. If you run away, you always hear the click of the sniper scope. And yeah, they don't always get a head shot, but usually just hitting the body is going to deal more damage than what they'd have done with autofire.

I'm not proposing we get rid of sniping, I'm just proposing that it's probably too fast if people are using it instead of autofire.

As far as the "tactical" mindset you have: while that sounds good in theory, in reality you often don't know where the spy is coming from. The ability to quickly adapt to a situation (ie: go into snipe mode) is integral to getting those pesky spies.

That's true. But I'm not really suggesting a huge sniping delay. I'm saying maybe like just a half second or something before you've got only minor sniper sway and then after waiting a full second or second and a half, the sway is entirely gone.

The other option is to keep things as they are, get rid of sniper sway, but have body shots do only normal bullet damage (headshots still instakill). That way it'd probably be more efficient to use auto-fire if you can't get a head shot.

That might work too.

Another interesting thing to try would be to keep the rifle zoom as it is, but remove autofire from the rifle (maybe it just has burst or something). That way it becomes like the reversed shotgun. Where it's awesome at long range, but is total balls at close range. Though that might be a bit too extreme since you'd have virtually no chance against a spy in your face.

[Farley4Fan]

ONCE AGAIN, let's take a look at COD4 sniping!  ;D  The delay is perfect, and it looks awesome.  In COD4 you take the gun and bring the scope up to your eye, it takes about half a second.  This would be better than the almost instant switch we have now.

[Spekkio]

Well, your average player doesn't do that, but pretty much play any good player and that's what they do. You'll rarely ever see them use autofire, except when you're right up in their face.

This is incorrect. People use auto-fire plenty. The amount of people trying to imitate Mr.Mic's sniping vid has drastically decreased since a long time ago.

And even if they didn't, so what? That's their choice as a player. I really don't see a valid argument here. You are basically asking for something to be altered because it doesn't fit your constricted definition of what it "should" be, it was common at one point, and it has killed you a bunch of times.