nades...

[Vega]

Vega, stop living in 2006. Those threads were made before Ubisoft got all aggrevated. Hint: do you still see the 'mission statement' saying that? No, because that was moved to dev-only to prevent people from thinking the wrong thing.

The official way you should see Project Stealth is:

We expand on the (currently known) SAM-based gameplay.

That's it.

It's 2008 and you still see people thinking this is going to be a clone.  This would be a lot easier if you actually had a mission statement thread in the "Information" forum.  It's by luck that a newcomer will find the mission statement in the "Assembling a development team" thread under the "Information" forum.  I'm not the only one who is confused about this project's goal.

[neth]

Do you guys seriously think that people get interested in PS if it is a clone of CT ? I mean, the community of CT is very small, do you think that all of these people will buy UT3 to play exact same thing with ZOMG new graphics and maps while everything stays the same ? I can see that you dont realise that thousands of new players will NOT play this mod and the only way to make this game at least a bit popular is to add many new cool things even if its done by the cost of balance, yes BALANCE. People dont play games so they can tell their friends: "Hey man, check this out, Ive got a game with best balance in the universe". People play games cause they have COOL things in it. Each time new idea comes I hear: "No, it would kill the balance", "No, it doesnt fit the genre", "No, blabla". This is shitty...

[I <3 U]

Do you guys seriously think that people get interested in PS if it is a clone of CT ? I mean, the community of CT is very small, do you think that all of these people will buy UT3 to play exact same thing with ZOMG new graphics and maps while everything stays the same ? I can see that you dont realise that thousands of new players will NOT play this mod and the only way to make this game at least a bit popular is to add many new cool things even if its done by the cost of balance, yes BALANCE. People dont play games so they can tell their friends: "Hey man, check this out, Ive got a game with best balance in the universe". People play games cause they have COOL things in it. Each time new idea comes I hear: "No, it would kill the balance", "No, it doesnt fit the genre", "No, blabla". This is shitty...

Agreed.

[Spekkio]

Do you guys seriously think that people get interested in PS if it is a clone of CT ?

Yes. CT had very outdated graphics, poor netcode, a lackluster interface, a long learning curve with no explanation of core mechanisms, and no support for bug and balance fixes. I suppose that, by definition, fixing these things makes PS not a "clone" of CT, but I don't think that's what people are referring to when they use that term. It seems to me that "clone" refers to gameplay style and features, and I don't think that part needs to change all that much.

[Gawain]

Do you guys seriously think that people get interested in PS if it is a clone of CT ?

Yes. CT had very outdated graphics, poor netcode, a lackluster interface, a long learning curve with no explanation of core mechanisms, and no support for bug and balance fixes. I suppose that, by definition, fixing these things makes PS not a "clone" of CT, but I don't think that's what people are referring to when they use that term. It seems to me that "clone" refers to gameplay style and features, and I don't think that part needs to change all that much.

exactly. ct is already the most amazing game concept there is, the reasons why its community isn't bigger are all in spekkio's post.

If you (Gawain) don't like this, go play your buggy CT.

this statement shows clearly that you are the wrong guy to be a dev of ps. just because you are no ct player doesn't mean that anything besides the "buggy" part needs to be changed. dammit you make me angry...

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

just because you are no ct player doesn't mean that anything besides the "buggy" part needs to be changed.

Sry if i understood you wrong, but from what i read, it comes out that you want PS to  just have the CT bugs removed, without touching anything other, and therefore to be an exact clone of the CT gameplay, without the bugs.
<sry for noob grammar>

[BurningDeath]

My personal idea for PS would be to take the SAM-gameplay one step further. Just like CT did with PT. Come on, you wouldn't want to play the exact same thing for another four years.

[frvge]

Correct. Bigger and better on all parts (graphics, sound, music, gameplay, bugfixes).

[Vega]

Do you guys seriously think that people get interested in PS if it is a clone of CT ?

Yes, that's how this project started.  It was the main focus of the project because people loved CT but hated the poor netcode and anything that fell into the "bullshit" category.  After the clone was done, we were going to discuss improvements in the game such as new gadgets and game modes.  It wasn't until some of the Ubi forum moderators (emphasis on their lack of power) got their panties in a bunch and attempted to scare off Project Stealth with "potential lawsuits" which had no basis and consisted mainly of complete, fabricated bullshit.

I mean, the community of CT is very small, do you think that all of these people will buy UT3 to play exact same thing with ZOMG new graphics and maps while everything stays the same ? I can see that you dont realise that thousands of new players will NOT play this mod and the only way to make this game at least a bit popular is to add many new cool things even if its done by the cost of balance, yes BALANCE. People dont play games so they can tell their friends: "Hey man, check this out, Ive got a game with best balance in the universe". People play games cause they have COOL things in it. Each time new idea comes I hear: "No, it would kill the balance", "No, it doesnt fit the genre", "No, blabla". This is shitty...

While it's true unbalance creates controversy and interest in a game, that approach is not the way to go with our type of game.  I'm not going to go into detail (since I'm pushing my absurd amount of homework aside as we speak), but that strategy works much better in a game such as an RTS rather than an FPS/stealth action multiplayer.  With our gadget selection being very small, the player allowed 4-5 gadgets, the possibilities are usually pretty obvious.  CT was, for the most part, pretty balanced.  It was an elite type of game that catered to a small group of people because it had a steep learning curve and was generally unfriendly towards noobs.  Don't kill SvM's greatest attribute so it can cater to the masses.  Double Agent, anyone? 

EDIT:  I'm fine with doing what PT to CT did.  That's great.  But SvM remained true to its core, unlike a lot of the ideas people propose on this forum for PS.

[Spekkio]

EDIT:  I'm fine with doing what PT to CT did.  That's great.  But SvM remained true to its core, unlike a lot of the ideas people propose on this forum for PS.

Exactly...the game doesn't have to be a clone in the strict sense of the word -- new models, sound, maps, etc. are certainly welcome. But the core gameplay does not need to be overhauled.

[frvge]

Change: everything techy, like models etc
Change (gameplay): better motion tracking, better balance.
Addition: probably new cool stuff, made up by the community. But we're not that far yet.
Removal (aim... cant test yet): lag, funny punches, insta-nades, crap like that.

It'll be evolution. Not revolution.

[Westfall]

EDIT:  I'm fine with doing what PT to CT did.  That's great.  But SvM remained true to its core, unlike a lot of the ideas people propose on this forum for PS.

Exactly...the game doesn't have to be a clone in the strict sense of the word -- new models, sound, maps, etc. are certainly welcome. But the core gameplay does not need to be overhauled.

The suggestions that people make does not take away from the SvM feel at all. If anything it influences, enhances, and variates....as it should with a NEW game. I think this needs to be implanted into the heads of several people because a clone of CT would be a waste of all this work these devs are putting into this. I like CT...I made a bold first post because CT got boring. Don't clone what CT was....clone the SvM with new additions and enhancements. With all of us from the PT/CT/DA community, it will be helpful because of the intelligence we can combine to accomplish a better game than anything UBI ever had to offer.

[LennardF1989]

dammit you make me angry...

Like I care... You never seem to understand the whole idea of PS and you're almost always the one complaining about balancing and new stuff. And I already explained you once WHY I'm in the team, so I'm not going to do that again. You should be glad I'm in, because coders aren't served on a plate!

@Vega: Start living in 2008 already! WE ARE NOT CLONING CT GOD DAMN IT! WE WILL NEVER DO AND NEVER WILL! (NOW GTFO IF YOU DON'T LIKE THIS)!

Arg... You guys make ME angry really...

@FRVGE: Make the new mission statement already!

Edit: I'm done talking about this now.

[Vega]

This is what I'm talking about.  Lennard is probably the worst spokesperson for your development team yet he usually represents you guys.  Not only is he missing the mark completely but he's a naive, little child who acts high and mighty because he's a coder.  Lennard, kid, shut the fuck up and stop acting like a fool.

You should be glad I'm in, because coders aren't served on a plate!

You sound a lot like dimmy, there's a good reason he isn't on the team.  I don't give fuck if you can code, if you're attitude sucks then you're worthless.  I'm a contributing member on this small forum, OMG BOW DOWN TO ME.  Can we get someone else to speak for you guys in the future?  Someone that is actually competent?

[frvge]

I am the only one representing the whole team, since I am PR (and therefor need to mind each of my words).
Lennard just cares for the game and sometimes posts without thinking it through ;) .

Lennard's attitude in the team is good. The only ones who will be the judge for that are the Dev-members.

On-topic now on the grenades-subject. Anyone who wishes to discuss this further can PM me and only me.