I was just thinking...There were some things with CT that weren't quite right when spies and mercs would interact. I was wondering how you guys were planning to avoid some of these minor issues.
1. When spies were hacking a computer, they could wait for the merc to charge and then quickly move while being smacked. The game would not register that the spy was smacked down, and then the spy could easily walk around the merc and break his neck while he was in "recovery" mode. There was an obvious disconnection between the animations for each and it created a lot of problems when people would complain about it.
2. Another similar thing was when a spy was trying to drop off a disk. It would practically be in the case when the spy dies from a nade, but then it suddenly appears on the ground in front without being completed even though it was in the case when he died.
3. When a spy was hanging on a wall, vent, ledge, etc., it was hard for the merc to smack the spy down because it would not always work. Could there be a way for the merc to go up to the hanging spy and press a button that causes him to pull the spy down to the ground?
4. When a spy knocked out a merc, there seemed to be an invisible radius around the merc's head where the spy could still land and knock out the merc even if it was not directly on his head.
These are just a few problems I came up with and I was wondering what your plans were for these. Or maybe you have not gotten far enough to deal with these yet...
Different game, different engine, different bugs.
Quote from: MR.Mic on March 07, 2010, 11:19:24 PM
Different game, different engine, different bugs.
Indeed, stop acting like we're upgrading (or even: making) a blend copy of the CT code, we aren't. I mean this in general CurdyMilk (so I'm not personally attacking you), people seem to forget that fact.
Ok, I see where you are coming from here and I agree. Sometimes I forget that there is no correlation between the games as far as gameplay. It is just the only game I have as a comparison, and if I actually had my hands on this game I probably could see this better. I may have given the impression that this is the same, but that was not really my intention. I just want to be sure that these don't happen again, especially something such as the head jumping. I am not saying that these problems would happen; I just know that they could. It is more of a precaution than anything...but I am sure you are already well aware of it.
I see what you're getting at here.
Just a shout out of Interactivity Problems as so they can make some kind of checklist to avoid.
Add hanging Spies and their inability to be knocked down by Rush/Taser. Pretty sure it was if they just hung there, maybe it was also in the transition of them getting up too.
This will be kind of Off-Topic but who cares.
Imho, the bugs made the game to what it is now, i think those bugs were great because you had to be even more careful and its great to get opportunities to kill ppl.
And ofc. Other game, other engine
Pretty simple..
Those bugs were exploits, and ruined MANY games when I was still playing. I'm sure everyone has stories of how bugs/glitches ruined several games. Combine the glitch with the laggy code and you're right, it made the game....a piece of shit. I'm sure the devs will be checking out for the little things and i'm sure we'll end of finding bugs with the new engine, but I don't want bugs to make a game for me.
Those bugs were consistent, so if you charged a hanging spy, only to get your neck snapped, its your own fault. Instanades, however..
You guys gonna fix that changing visions to get out of the long fall animation bug? So many people used it that it's halfway to a legitimate move by now, tbh.
Quote from: Ambiguous Rocket on March 11, 2010, 03:35:30 PM
You guys gonna fix that changing visions to get out of the long fall animation bug? So many people used it that it's a legitimate move by now, tbh.
fix'd
Quote from: Ambiguous Rocket on March 11, 2010, 03:35:30 PM
You guys gonna fix that changing visions to get out of the long fall animation bug? So many people used it that it's halfway to a legitimate move by now, tbh.
I think the consensus was to make a legitimate move that allowed you to perform a safe landing. Possibly through a tuck and roll or something.
Yes. Probably needs to be timed correctly to make it work.
How about this one? (dont hate me "pros").
When a spy jumps on a merc and the merc berserks a second before the hit, the spy is knocked out.
This is dumb because if the surface area to register a hit is reduced to only the mercs head (when a spy wants to jump on him) then whether the mercs head is spining or not should have no effect on the spy's ability to break the mercs spine and neck when jumping on him.
Unless of coarse u guys bother to do some kind of a "missed jump surface area radius" where the merc's swiinging rifle is at and the spy lands there then he would indeed get his ass wooped by the mercs gun.
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi74.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi278%2FNelson1223%2FLul.jpg&hash=b3172a472e3bce22d8b184c2016f97d66f4121df)
Might work.
I agree with that one.
Annoying to have a perfect jump RUINED by an overcautious Berserker. Since unless they are within dropping distance you do have to make some sound to land on them. Blip Blip, Berserk, Spy Dead.
Makes too much sense.
Never understood why the hitbox for that move was the WHOLE Merc anyway.
If you keep getting berserked when you go for jumps you need to be less obvious. Letting spies jump berserking mercs would make it way too easy, shit'd suck. Imagine Club floor 2 or something, it'd be impossible for mercs to avoid it.
It's not like mercs are gonna have bullshit MT to automatically detect you anymore. If they have time to see you coming and react with a berserk, you should die. Instead of, what, they see you coming, react in time to berserk, and you knock them out anyway? What kind of bullshit is that?
I think the idea was that there is a less "Auto Aimed" jump involved with the idea also.
That you actually have to jump on their HEAD, not just near them to actually pull it off. Which is understandable since the area of effect for berserking should only be the Gun/Arm of the Merc. Landing above that shouldn't disregard the spies jump and knock him out.
Spy lands on Merc's head while Merc Berserks = Spy Wins
Spy lands near Merc while Merc is Berserking = Merc Wins
Quote from: Cronky on March 12, 2010, 08:00:44 PM
I think the idea was that there is a less "Auto Aimed" jump involved with the idea also.
That you actually have to jump on their HEAD, not just near them to actually pull it off. Which is understandable since the area of effect for berserking should only be the Gun/Arm of the Merc. Landing above that shouldn't disregard the spies jump and knock him out.
Spy lands on Merc's head while Merc Berserks = Spy Wins
Spy lands near Merc while Merc is Berserking = Merc Wins
yea but his head /shoulders are spinning dipshit so the spy will slip off and get pimphanded by the mercs gun. you ever tried balancing on a dude shoulders while hes spinning round in circles, i have and it didn't end pretty!
Quote from: I <3 U on March 12, 2010, 08:36:54 PM
yea but his head /shoulders are spinning dipshit so the spy will slip off and get pimphanded by the mercs gun. you ever tried balancing on a dude shoulders while hes spinning round in circles, i have and it didn't end pretty!
I got it!
Turn the Jump into an Elbow Drop.
Problem Solved :)
oh great so now we have to smell what the rock is cookin'? People's elbow in fucking PS. No thanks. I'm baked!
Awww Come on.
We turn the Mercs into Macho Man Randy Savage
The Spies into DDP
Switch PS to WCW/nWo REVENGE
Throw in a Ninja, and a couple stop signs!
HURRAH!
Perfect game!
(On topic, These parts have nothing to do with it)
Agree with the jump/berserk effective area thing.
I have 2 ideas. One is that as a spy is knocked down by the merc, the other spy could drag him without actually getting him up right away. One advantage would be like this: say two spies are fighting with a merc and one gets knocked down near the corner of a wall. Through the smoke, the other spy could drag his mate around the corner and then continue to distract the merc while the one on the ground has time to recover and get up. It could stop the nading of the spy on the ground through the commotion if the other spy can move him quickly enough. Another idea is to implement a "dummy dead" option for a spy. When he gets hit with a bullet, he could have a short period of time when he could press a button to drop himself to the ground and act dead. It could work to escape when the merc thinks he has already been killed if the action/animation seems real enough compared to the animation of when he truly dies.
Interesting idea Curdymilk. I like the drag idea. However the drag would have to be fast to be useful and it might look weird. I liked how it worked in Riddick though.
Or we could just press a key to get them up faster? Kind of like CT, ya know? Dragging would be useless and just a cool looking animation. I'd rather just get my teammate up right then and there instead of dragging him and both of us dying by a nade.
Quote from: Ambiguous Rocket on March 12, 2010, 02:41:41 PM
If you keep getting berserked when you go for jumps you need to be less obvious. Letting spies jump berserking mercs would make it way too easy, shit'd suck. Imagine Club floor 2 or something, it'd be impossible for mercs to avoid it.
It's not like mercs are gonna have bullshit MT to automatically detect you anymore. If they have time to see you coming and react with a berserk, you should die. Instead of, what, they see you coming, react in time to berserk, and you knock them out anyway? What kind of bullshit is that?
What he said.
The problem with jumping was the too-generous host hitbox and practically non-existent client hitboxes. Fix those, and jumping will be fine.
Quote from: Spekkio on March 13, 2010, 04:02:49 PM
What he said.
The problem with jumping was the too-generous host hitbox and practically non-existent client hitboxes. Fix those, and jumping will be fine.
It's true that would fix an aspect of it, but that REALLY doesn't leave much to talk about if you spit out the same line that's been said so many times before, in so many forms.
"This game isn't CT. All the Problems with CT will be fixed"
Head jumping potential? Still applicable, if only for a conversation keeper (as is 90% of the things that get brought up on this forum). In the end, it could at least be tested to see if it REALLY changes up the game to some major extent.
This doesn't need testing. Just imagine the second floor of Club House. That's all you should need to do to realise this idea won't work. Any environment with a lot of low spots to jump off becomes completely impossible for mercs to survive in.
It'd be like if I suggested a new gadget that would let the elbow kill mercs. You don't need to test this to realise it's bad. At least, you shouldn't.
Imagining...
Imagining..........
Yup, still think it could be tested. Perhaps because this game, "Wont play exactly like CT".
yea its a bullshit idea mate.
No it's not.
(This short style replying... I'm starting to get the hang of it)
Quote from: Cronky on March 13, 2010, 11:02:28 PM
No it's not.
(This short style replying... I'm starting to get the hang of it)
yes, it is, and no, you're not.
Quote from: I <3 U on March 13, 2010, 11:04:07 PM
Quote from: Cronky on March 13, 2010, 11:02:28 PM
No it's not.
(This short style replying... I'm starting to get the hang of it)
yes, it is, and no, you're not.
You're Wrong
;D
Ah, the old "testing" thing. We should test spies with rocket launchers too, since we're already throwing stealth out the window with this idea.
Quote from: Spekkio on March 14, 2010, 01:16:11 AM
Ah, the old "testing" thing. We should test spies with rocket launchers too, since we're already throwing stealth out the window with this idea.
We're modeling it right now. It's gonna be the RPG-7, since the Mercs are actually terrorists. Mercs can also put bananas down that spies can slip and fall on, since their back would be broken from such a fall, they can't move untill killed.
...stupid idea.
Quote from: Spekkio on March 13, 2010, 04:02:49 PM
Quote from: Ambiguous Rocket on March 12, 2010, 02:41:41 PM
If you keep getting berserked when you go for jumps you need to be less obvious. Letting spies jump berserking mercs would make it way too easy, shit'd suck. Imagine Club floor 2 or something, it'd be impossible for mercs to avoid it.
It's not like mercs are gonna have bullshit MT to automatically detect you anymore. If they have time to see you coming and react with a berserk, you should die. Instead of, what, they see you coming, react in time to berserk, and you knock them out anyway? What kind of bullshit is that?
What he said.
The problem with jumping was the too-generous host hitbox and practically non-existent client hitboxes. Fix those, and jumping will be fine.
This is true but I still think that a direct foot-to-head jump while the merc is berserking should at least not knock down the spy and maybe stun the merc a bit (blur his screen for a second). If you guys think you can get lag-less matches and small hitboxes to work perfectly then why not? Low priority I know but little adjustments to gameplay like this that would make it more refined and less clunky are welcome. Just saying.
Quote from: FarleyFan on March 14, 2010, 10:43:46 AM
This is true but I still think that a direct foot-to-head jump while the merc is berserking should at least not knock down the spy and maybe stun the merc a bit (blur his screen for a second). If you guys think you can get lag-less matches and small hitboxes to work perfectly then why not? Low priority I know but little adjustments to gameplay like this that would make it more refined and less clunky are welcome. Just saying.
Ooo! I like that!
Instead of who WINS in the situation.
Berserk + Mario Stomp = Even situation. Spy doesn't get a Merc KO. Merc doesn't get a Spy KO.
Spy gets time to run because of a perfect, yet failed jump. Merc doesn't get an insta-kill because he did a fail-safe move.
(Again, in my mind alone the Auto Aim for the jump is toned down, so Jumping on a Merc's head actually takes a good, calculated jump. Not just... Fall from the heavens and Ooop, landed on his head. Of course there will be those that HAPPEN to get a headshot by pure luck, but you can't account for those)
Cronky, have you ever played CT? Because I mean I'm not sure if you've noticed or not but spies aren't actually meant to go for frontal confrontations. That's why their elbow just knocks mercs back, but mercs can charge and ko/do damage. If a spy gets seen while he attacks he is actually meant to lose. If a spy is trying to sneak up on a merc but the merc turns and sees him the spy is meant to lose. If a spy is trying to jump a merc but the merc sees him do it the spy is meant to lose.
If you try to jump a guy and he berserks you then you should die. Just like if you go to grab someone and they turn around at the last second and charge you. You attacked, you failed, you should pay for it. You shouldn't get away because your attack was so perfect, because if they had time to notice what you were doing and counter it then it wasn't really perfect was it?
Quote from: Ambiguous Rocket on March 14, 2010, 12:19:19 PM
Cronky, have you ever played CT? Because I mean I'm not sure if you've noticed or not but spies aren't actually meant to go for frontal confrontations. That's why their elbow just knocks mercs back, but mercs can charge and ko/do damage. If a spy gets seen while he attacks he is actually meant to lose. If a spy is trying to sneak up on a merc but the merc turns and sees him the spy is meant to lose. If a spy is trying to jump a merc but the merc sees him do it the spy is meant to lose.
If you try to jump a guy and he berserks you then you should die. Just like if you go to grab someone and they turn around at the last second and charge you. You attacked, you failed, you should pay for it. You shouldn't get away because your attack was so perfect, because if they had time to notice what you were doing and counter it then it wasn't really perfect was it?
Unfortunately, I agree. Yes, it sucks, but yes, it's also the truth. If you want to give the spy a powerboost, you have to look into something else rather than what a mercenary can do.
Quote from: Ambiguous Rocket on March 14, 2010, 12:19:19 PM
Cronky, have you ever played CT? Because I mean I'm not sure if you've noticed or not but spies aren't actually meant to go for frontal confrontations. That's why their elbow just knocks mercs back, but mercs can charge and ko/do damage. If a spy gets seen while he attacks he is actually meant to lose. If a spy is trying to sneak up on a merc but the merc turns and sees him the spy is meant to lose. If a spy is trying to jump a merc but the merc sees him do it the spy is meant to lose.
If you try to jump a guy and he berserks you then you should die. Just like if you go to grab someone and they turn around at the last second and charge you. You attacked, you failed, you should pay for it. You shouldn't get away because your attack was so perfect, because if they had time to notice what you were doing and counter it then it wasn't really perfect was it?
I played the Hell out of CT and PT in their Prime. That's how I've gotten to this conclusion. Berserk to me was a move that was made for the Console, that PC players just happened to get. A move that was meant to help console players defend their back because it was actually a risk to take the time to turn around. The restrictive controls actually justifying the move. PC player have no excuse. It's faster to turn around and shoot the crap out of something... But wait, you also have the ability to negate all jumps too.
(If it was up to me, this game wouldn't even have the move. I am open to ideas though, so I went along with this one since it... Made sense to balance it)
Maybe this would lead to more "Aggro" spies though. I understand where you're coming from, but you misused my example to further your own. I don't think it's just me that actually had to take a running step before jumping. One little blip on the Merc's detector that was purely because... Velocity isn't gained in a stand still. Unless he was physically right under me (In which case I wouldn't need to jump) there wasn't much else that could be done. This of course being in the Content of a "Deathmath". Story Modes were about distraction, rather than lethality. Even at that though, this new "Lose Lose" as I was quoted for, but made up by FarleyFan, isn't going to change that.
If you played the game as much as you make it seem, I bet you knew where that one blip was coming from. I bet with a good chance you knew what was about to happen. If you used Berserk it was a Win Win... Either:
A.) You hit the spy and now you can kill him
or
B.) You didn't hit the spy, but with the controls like they are. The only time you were actually in danger was that mandatory "Pause" Right after the move that lasts a fraction of a second.
In the end I say... Test It. Wowie, I don't think Beta is meant for a final game, but instead a means to Balance and Test their game in a widespread setting. Some options having to be cut, and new ones having to be made.
This idea just being on the list of stuff that is unsure.
@Lennard: I'm just confused because in a post you said in another thread today (Gadgets one) you use the same line we've all heard, "Different Game, Different Engine". When it comes to this idea though I'm supposed to believe that it's going to be exactly like CT? I find that a little hypocritical.
Berserk doesn't negate all jumps; it only negates jumps when the merc sees the spy attempt them.
Since that seems to be the central thesis of your argument, well...
I do agree that the 'zerk could use to be weakened somewhat, particularly if they are able to fix the problem where your gun shoots air instead of bullets due to massive packet losses. Namely, I think that the merc shouldn't be able to jump during the recovery time from both the bullcharge and the 'zerk. I'd also like to see the bullcharge only knock back spies, not knock down spies, have no slowdown if the bullcharge hits nothing, and I'd also like to see the merc's be invulnerable to being grabbed after hitting a spy with a bullcharge.
But the 'zerk is a legitimate counter to a spy trying to jump on him. Without that, they have no counter at all except to completely avoid areas where the spy can jump on them...that pretty much means any stairwell, any area with rails, etc.
I think lennard's point is that they are trying to keep the stealthy gameplay from PT and CT...which means that they will keep the design where spies continue to lose if they attempt direct attacks on the mercs.
Hahahah, You found me out!
It's the idea that some things aren't avoidable. That a needed step, is a failed step. That unless they are right below you, or you are actually fooling them with an alarm snare... You're SoL when it came to jumping.
This idea of a probability on this new option doesn't give the spy anything new. Fail Spy is still Fail, but that doesn't mean that Fail Spy can do the same move again. The area in which he got away with the first time isn't 100% guaranteed.
OR
I got it!
Why not make the spies first step not show up on the detector (Seems much harder to me as to how this would work). Solves my problem without anyone losing their move that I still find unjustified because of the controls for the PC.
Eh? EH?
;D
Edit: You CRAFTY Man! Adding in large chunks of stuff after posting a response! I never saw it coming! Perhaps with those changes you mentioned I could see Berserk in a new light. As of right NOW though, not what's happening.
wtf are you on about?
You do realize you can jump on a merc without making the spy stand up, right? You also realize that doing this won't ping the merc's reticle, right? And... as you so aptly pointed out, if you really want to stand up, you can always utilize snares, which I presume won't make such an obnoxiously loud noise when shot like in CT.
Crouch Jumping is pretty much as handy as standing still and jumping.
I like actually going somewhere when I jump in the air. Running jump does that, even if it's only one step. Perhaps it's just because CT was weird about that (At least for me) when I was playing. That there were pretty much 3 Jumps that could be made:
1: The Stand Still Jump and look stupid
2: The Jump that makes it 1 step in front of you
3: The Jump that actually went somewhere
I meant for Alarm Snares to be Sarcastic also. Since I don't know about YOU, but I wasn't fooled by Alarm Snares for more than about 3 seconds (Someone just decided to run like hell for no reason? Hrmm...). Unless Planted EVERYWHERE around me, there wouldn't be enough to distract me from a Second Noise.
You obviously don't know how to use snares, then. The idea isn't to FOOL the merc into thinking a spy is there, it's to mask your movement. And they do it quite well.
Crouch jumping is plenty useful (as host, at least)...doesn't quite have the range of running, I agree...but there's pluses and minuses to everything.
Fool... Cover... Mask... Same Same :P
But yeah, I'm going off my personal experiences with it. I personally didn't like Berserk, even if I was a Merc. Felt cheap to me because it's not that is not there FOR a purpose, but that it does that purpose TOO well. That's why this whole: Lose Lose situation sounded perfect. It's only a chance that you can do it (If you land on their head. Big emphasis on IF) if you fail that, then it's exactly like it was.
I just think it needs a Test. Sounds Legit.
Chances are that it will end up like it is already, but the point of this game wasn't to copy CT. It's a New Game, and not everything is going to be perfect. Why NOT try out the options if they can be valid in some way.
(Soooooo easy to say that when I'm not making the game ;D)
"Needs testing..."
I love how that is always the fallback for people with shitty ideas. You want to test uncounterable jumps? Go fire up PT.
hey cronky i have a totally cool idea it goes like this
you learn how to fucking play
you'll find this whole mercs hearing you trying to jump them problem will vanish as if by magic
I love how you blow off the topic when you don't have a viable response. Instead either by:
A.) Not responding
and/or
B.) Throwing in what you think is some viable counter that holds no grounds to what we're talking about
:)
Double Jumping in PT was a Problem.
Solved by TWO things when One was more than enough.
1. Standing Shock. Instant kill of Spy if he tries to double Jump cause the Merc was Electrified
2. Berserk
Adding on all the other ways it can be prevented, both weren't needed.
You keep going on about something along the lines of, "If Berserk were to be altered or taken away then any level that had high spots would be unfair". That, "Berserk is Merc's Counter to Spies Jump". Funny how I never remember being ignorant to spies available tactics, or being unable to thwart them regardless of Berserk.
You take the risk when you walk into The Danger Zone(s). Much in the same way a Spy takes a risk if he stands out in the open. (I think that may in fact be the basis of Neutralization Mode :O)
Aside from that, in all these posts I don't mean to say that the option of "1 jump: 1 kill" was ever turned on. I think that's an even stupider idea than Berserk. Spies still NEED to be sneaky, should still have a hard time KILLING a Merc, but also have it be a little more lenient when it comes to, "Ooops, made one sound when jumping cause I had to take a step to... make it to him. Now he's Beserking and I have to watch as no matter what I do, I die".
I say "Needs Testing..." because there's nothing else I CAN rightfully say.
Hrmm... I got it! I'll quickly make up a clone of this yet to be released game and do it on my own time...
...Oh wait, I can't do that.
You do have to Test things to SEE if they'd work. Many people go out on a limb with such stuff. Look at Conviction having a viable aggro option. The fun thing about PS is that anything that gets made, can be retracted without much hassle to the community. Without testing of new ideas, creativity and innovation come to a stand still. You just end up with the same rehashed shit that you had last time you saw it.
Am I saying that this idea is PERFECT. That it needs to be in the final game? No. Does any one of us have a perfect reason as to why it should or shouldn't be altered? No.
Sooo... It Needs Testing.
;D
Quote from: Ambiguous Rocket on March 14, 2010, 08:26:10 PM
hey cronky i have a totally cool idea it goes like this
you learn how to fucking play
you'll find this whole mercs hearing you trying to jump them problem will vanish as if by magic
Sorry if I actually had fun playing CT back in the day and saw spots that I didn't like. That I played on the Console so all those problems you guys had weren't all too evident to me. I won as both Spy and Merc, and I did so with a Variety of options on or off. I personally don't like Berserk, but instead of dropping the ability like I would do... I've come to terms that with a little change it could actually enhance the fun I had on Both sides.
I didn't have a problem with jumping on people. It's that there WAS a problem with jumping on people.
;D
OH an I notice that last line could actually be taken the same way that you are trying to hang on to.
The problem being that to actually jump meant you (DEPENDING ON DISTANCE) had to make at least one noise.
Edit: MAN there is no way that I will be able make you not say, "Get Better at the Game".
I have some feeling that it's what I'm about to read.
Quote from: Cronky on March 14, 2010, 08:46:36 PM
The problem being that to actually jump meant you (DEPENDING ON DISTANCE) had to make at least one noise.
How about you just learn how to play so you don't have to make noise when you go for jumps? That way you don't have to bitch about how hard berserking makes things for you, and we don't have to hear your ridiculous ideas which would break the game.
I mean everyone wins here right?
Ha!
First off, It wasn't my idea. I'm just the only one on Defending it. (Wait... I've seen this before)
Secondly, perhaps I wasn't PRO at the game. Doesn't change the fact that Berserking can be altered. Breaking the gameplay... yes because we all rely on Berserk and it's specific purpose... Oh wait I never said to take it away. It's like the same argument as, "Put Grab and Elbow on different buttons".
:o LEARN TO PLAY BETTER!!!! Stop Bitching cause you have a problem with getting behind people and pressing a button! I didn't have a problem with Grabbing people! Roll with the punches man! If you don't grab the first time, then you are Fail Spy.
:P
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.deviantart.com%2Fdownload%2F127624994%2FTF2___Spy_Fail_by_frzdragon.jpg&hash=fa25b459cd8e8c238227f7f3ac8e8aae7a9844b6)
If a spy lands a perfect jump directly on the head then it is the merc's fault for allowing it. If that merc is spinning (berserk) and a spy jumps on his head then I think both should be rewarded. By rewarded I mean both the spy and merc are half-punished. A semi-stunned merc, and maybe the spy loses 1/4 of his health.
I don't know how practical this could be in terms of coding it and having it actually work and all that but I don't mind the idea of a merc and a spy having a tie.
cronky, why do you feel the need to defend every motherfucking idea that gets thrown up on this forum? not like anybody reads your long ass posts anyway. learn to summarise, fuck. This is me summarising: You suck at CT.
Cronky, I say again: you want uncounterable jumps, go play PT. Just tell yourself you won't SS + Jump. Same concept.
You think electricity for invulnerability is enough? Good players will learn how to time the animation so that they'll hit your head at the exact time when invulnerability wears off. Double jump will return, it will just be a little harder to do. The only thing preventing it is that the merc can berserk if he sees you attempt to jump him that second time, resulting in a spy death.
Berserk is the only way for mercs to counter a spy jump. If you want to remove that, what will you put in its place?
Spekkio-
If there is minimal lag in PS, with consistent and tight hitboxes, then it will be much harder to jump on a merc's head. If you know a spy is trying to jump you then hopefully you will be able to just move out of the way in order to dodge a jump. Of course you can berserk but if the merc does not move, and he berserks, and the spy lands directly on the merc's head, then neither should be rewarded. In my opinion berserk just compensated for the ridiculously high effective range of the spy's lethal drop. Hopefully it won't be so necessary in PS.
This is the kind of thing Ubisoft would add to the game...
@ I <3 U
Would you accept, "Because I find it Fun" as a reason?
Aside from this and a few choice topics, this forum is almost dead. Replying to my opposition of the mass opinion seems to keep the forum from "Dead Days". I watched as days went by without any posts. This week or so it has been PRETTY lively with the... 7 or so people that actually post stuff. (As much as 7 people active actually can be)
The descriptions of recent posts go something like:
Devs: A Little Bit, but spaced out (Until our media updates!)
Opposition to me: Frequent, but contained (Most happening Within the Devs posts)
Other: Occasional, and lead to things such as this (Also including such things as Spekkio's Oscar Thread, and CurdlyMilk's blindness of joke posts)
PLUS, you all just bash ideas straight up. Assuming we are all supposed to just, "Get it". No conversation necessary. I wonder why only a very small amount of people still post... Oh wait I know why... Cause it's boring.
Spekkio adding a little bit of Flava to the Gadget Balance topic, but he still seems dead set on his opinion of Balance. Kind of in what seems to be a Rhetorical sense. "This is what's right, but I'll phrase small bits of it in a sense that makes it feel like you have a part in it too...! ...But seriously I don't give a damn, so just agree."
@Spekkio
Ha Ha Ha. So Witty. PT Servers are shut down from my knowledge.
So since I don't have that option now. How about we just test it with PS! :o NEXT BEST ALTERNATIVE!!! Wooooo!
As for my Counter... Hrmmm.... Maybe Bullets with Stopping power. Don't get me Wrong though! Oh man... They wouldn't have the stopping power of like... a brick to the head. No dead stops, but each increasing the stopping power of the last. If you're close, they will PROBABLY take a good deal of bullets. To which they Should! If they are far away, only some will hit. Meaning the stopping will be at a minimum. Like it would be.
Or Mercs stay "electrified" for a few seconds afterward as a sort of, "Free Time". Still grab-able, but not jump-able. Perhaps not Electrified though, because that actually breaks immersion a little bit. I'm sure something could be thought up that works out smoother.
@tigaer
They probably would, but the best part is... People would still play it ;D
@MyCTSkills
Wait... I don't actually play anymore ;D
We aren't still playing DA, now are we?
Hardly anyone is playing CT anymore.
Unless saying that those 100 or so people at peak times were all the people that played CT when it was actually popular.
Plus I like to point to the key word in your response, "Still".
You did play it. ;D
Don't over analyze my posts. I said still as in, nobody liked the game; it was bad; people went back to CT. A lot more than 100 people played CT at peak hours when it was popular.
You over-analyzed first, so I did it back ;D
My point for my original response to you is that people would Play it.
Not KEEP playing it.
You did play DA SvM. They got your monies. They won. :P
Quote from: Cronky on March 14, 2010, 08:59:30 PM
:o LEARN TO PLAY BETTER!!!! Stop Bitching cause you have a problem with getting behind people and pressing a button! I didn't have a problem with Grabbing people! Roll with the punches man! If you don't grab the first time, then you are Fail Spy.
Because getting screwed by lag is just like not realising you can crouch jump/use snares/roll off high places?
Fuck, why am I wasting my time with this? I'm goin' back to Touhou, it's a lot more rewarding than arguing with someone who has no idea what he's talking about.
Quote from: Cronky on March 15, 2010, 08:50:26 AM
My point for my original response to you is that people would Play it.
Not KEEP playing it.
hahaha no it wasn't
Quote from: Cronky on March 15, 2010, 08:50:26 AM
You over-analyzed first, so I did it back ;D
My point for my original response to you is that people would Play it.
Not KEEP playing it.
You did play DA SvM. They got your monies. They won. :P
lol.
I'm going to go back to my original statement; we're not Ubisoft. :)
Also, I never bought DA. Rented it, got 100% (Commander or whatever) on both spy and merc in a week and never touched it again.
@Noop
Glad you stopped in! If you're done debating. Then I am too.
(but I don't know... I could probably think up a few ways to connect lag to jumping. Then jumping to Berserking if you really want me to ;D)
Plus don't assume you know what I meant when I was typing. Looks bad on you. It's like a smudge on your otherwise pristine white undershirt. Mines dirty, so I can assume all I want, but you like to be in the right. So I think you might not want that kind of stain.
@tigaer
Edit: I know you all aren't Ubisoft, but you should still be willing to go outside of the Safe Zone every once in a while. Even if it's just for a minute. The point of PS was to NOT make an exact Copy of CT, I thought. Since most all of the ideas have been in text form only... You have no clue how they'd work in game. Only speculation as to it's eventual conclusion. Maybe it's backed by Info from the game that is trying to emulate, but that doesn't mean you should instantly take that "Proof" as solid evidence.
Okay Okay. You got me. Ubisoft didn't get your money... directly
...But the place you rented it did... to which they paid for the copy that you played, and that got Ubisoft Monies.
You may not have paid 60.00 dollars for it, but you did at least pay for a penny of it. (Even Fractions of a penny by now! But when it comes to money you HAVE to round up)
Quote from: Ambiguous Rocket on March 12, 2010, 02:41:41 PM
If you keep getting berserked when you go for jumps you need to be less obvious. Letting spies jump berserking mercs would make it way too easy, shit'd suck. Imagine Club floor 2 or something, it'd be impossible for mercs to avoid it.
It's not like mercs are gonna have bullshit MT to automatically detect you anymore. If they have time to see you coming and react with a berserk, you should die. Instead of, what, they see you coming, react in time to berserk, and you knock them out anyway? What kind of bullshit is that?
ok tell ur brother to jump off the roof of ur house onto your head while your spinning like a little queer, see who wins.
Quote from: I <3 U on March 12, 2010, 08:36:54 PM
Quote from: Cronky on March 12, 2010, 08:00:44 PM
I think the idea was that there is a less "Auto Aimed" jump involved with the idea also.
That you actually have to jump on their HEAD, not just near them to actually pull it off. Which is understandable since the area of effect for berserking should only be the Gun/Arm of the Merc. Landing above that shouldn't disregard the spies jump and knock him out.
Spy lands on Merc's head while Merc Berserks = Spy Wins
Spy lands near Merc while Merc is Berserking = Merc Wins
yea but his head /shoulders are spinning dipshit so the spy will slip off and get pimphanded by the mercs gun. you ever tried balancing on a dude shoulders while hes spinning round in circles, i have and it didn't end pretty!
you are dumb, the impact would totally knock merc out if the spy hits him directly in the head (the merc would drop like a rag doll and the rifle would so too. balancing on shoulders like dumb circus monkey has nothing to do with jumping on someones head. ones lethal, the other isnt.
Quote from: Roberto1223 on March 15, 2010, 10:27:54 AM
Quote from: Ambiguous Rocket on March 12, 2010, 02:41:41 PM
If you keep getting berserked when you go for jumps you need to be less obvious. Letting spies jump berserking mercs would make it way too easy, shit'd suck. Imagine Club floor 2 or something, it'd be impossible for mercs to avoid it.
It's not like mercs are gonna have bullshit MT to automatically detect you anymore. If they have time to see you coming and react with a berserk, you should die. Instead of, what, they see you coming, react in time to berserk, and you knock them out anyway? What kind of bullshit is that?
ok tell ur brother to jump off the roof of ur house onto your head while your spinning like a little queer, see who wins.
If we're using this mindset, the spy should also get knocked out, because that is what would happen if your little scenario went down. While we're at it, let's also make it where you can break your legs from a fall. I can't believe people are actually arguing this subject.
Quote from: tigaer on March 15, 2010, 10:50:53 AM
If we're using this mindset, the spy should also get knocked out, because that is what would happen if your little scenario went down. While we're at it, let's also make it where you can break your legs from a fall. I can't believe people are actually arguing this subject.
That was actually part of the idea!
Maybe not KNOCKED OUT, but both phased because both did an equal action... So they both lost.
Stalemate.
Quote from: Spekkio on March 14, 2010, 01:16:11 AM
Ah, the old "testing" thing. We should test spies with rocket launchers too, since we're already throwing stealth out the window with this idea.
u guys are retarded, every idea that is good is bullshit for you. u never aprove any ideas. This forum is to propose ideas. u guys are so dumb in being scared of changing up gameplay. THIS GAME ISNT GOING TO BE CT PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT!!!
YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PICK UP THE GAME AND BE GOOD AT IT USING THE SAME STUPID BS TECHNIQUES FROM CT.
YOU WILL NO LONGER HAVE:
EMF GHOSTING
SHOULD NO LONGER HAVE UR BS BERSERK EASY-JUMP-ESCAPE
WILL NOT HAVE NIGHTVISION BUG TO GET AWAY FROM JUMP STALLS (WILL HAVE AN ANIMATION THAT REQUIRES GOOD TIMING INSTEAD)
WILL NOT HAVE FUCKIN SUPER SONIC EAX HEARING (HOPEFULLY CAUSE ITS BULLSHIT TOO)
im sorry to tell u that you will have to actually break a sweat and get ur adrenaline pumpin in Project Stealth because this gonna be a new game with less flaws.
PS. please tell me what ideas u think are good in the course of the 3 years of existance of this forum. you fuckin pessimist terrorist fuck.
lol u mad brah?
Quote from: Ambiguous Rocket on March 14, 2010, 12:19:19 PM
Cronky, have you ever played CT? Because I mean I'm not sure if you've noticed or not but spies aren't actually meant to go for frontal confrontations. That's why their elbow just knocks mercs back, but mercs can charge and ko/do damage. If a spy gets seen while he attacks he is actually meant to lose. If a spy is trying to sneak up on a merc but the merc turns and sees him the spy is meant to lose. If a spy is trying to jump a merc but the merc sees him do it the spy is meant to lose.
If you try to jump a guy and he berserks you then you should die. Just like if you go to grab someone and they turn around at the last second and charge you. You attacked, you failed, you should pay for it. You shouldn't get away because your attack was so perfect, because if they had time to notice what you were doing and counter it then it wasn't really perfect was it?
ok so, if your crossing the road and you see a car coming at 120 mph heading towards you a split second before it hits you and u launch yourself onto the sidewalk but not fast enough and the car still runs over you, you survive? dosent make sense. i think youd still die, the fact that u saw ur death coming dosent make you invincible. sorry man i suggest you stop watching pokemon and find yourself a job.
I have to give it to you Roberto... I was skeptical about your methods at first, but you really knows how to NOT Sugar coat your opinion... and also make any part of it that could be sweet, bitter as hell.
Good Work! I approve.
I'm almost crying from laughter!
......
Edit: Tears of Hilarity now!
QuoteHa Ha Ha. So Witty. PT Servers are shut down from my knowledge.
Hamachi.
And maybe you haven't spent time playing PT, but I have. Additionally, many of the devs have, too. There are plenty of people who know what a world without berserk is like. Your idea has already been tested, and it sucks.
Oh, and there's a word for people who make idiotic posts in order to "stimulate discussion." They're called trolls. Discussion isn't useful when everything you write about is pure crap.
Quote from: Spekkio on March 15, 2010, 01:04:16 AM
Cronky, I say again: you want uncounterable jumps, go play PT. Just tell yourself you won't SS + Jump. Same concept.
You think electricity for invulnerability is enough? Good players will learn how to time the animation so that they'll hit your head at the exact time when invulnerability wears off. Double jump will return, it will just be a little harder to do. The only thing preventing it is that the merc can berserk if he sees you attempt to jump him that second time, resulting in a spy death.
Berserk is the only way for mercs to counter a spy jump. If you want to remove that, what will you put in its place?
dude are u dumb? we arent saying we want uncounterable jumps u dipshit we just dont want douchebags like you pulling off dumb moves like that and saying that u have skills when all ur doing is pressing shift. its a shame this forum is filled with assholes like you that dont allow things to progress and/or evolve. its a shame that devs are fooled by ur dumb arguments. I think that lennard and fridge should take the time to listen to the revolutionary thoughts and ideas a little bit since they are the ones that will make a difference in the end to this mod. the fuckin conservatives here are a bunch of selfish assholes.
It is up to the devs to either really stick to their word and make this a better game by listeining to the community (and avoid getting in legal troubles too) or just copy CT again and remove the bugs.
This would make the gaming community be reduced to the same 60 asshole players from CT.
If this game ends up being CT but with shiny graphics ill stick to BF Bad compnay 2... Why would i want the same dumbasses and bullshit preventingme from having fun online. i stopped playing CT due to the crappy gameplay, the bad community member vibe and the lack of servers.
these fuckin assholes drive other new players away im telling ya. Then u gonna see em trying tto desperatly pull players into the community by offering them "training" lol.
Quote from: Spekkio on March 15, 2010, 11:14:45 AM
QuoteHa Ha Ha. So Witty. PT Servers are shut down from my knowledge.
Hamachi.
Oh, and there's a word for people who make idiotic posts in order to "stimulate discussion." They're called trolls. Discussion isn't useful when everything you write about is pure crap.
:O
Two things learned in one short post! Hamachi being used for more than RE5, and that I could be considered a Troll! Hooray for Stimulating Discussion... It's almost as good as this forum actually having a LOT of active posters.
I've got points in my posts somewhere. Then again, you would refuse to acknowledge them even as, "Mediocre" at best if I tried to clarify them. Yes you have played SvM muuuuuuuuch more than me. Probably even more Recently also! You could at least pretend like an idea MIGHT be okay though. The phrase, "Humor Me" comes to mind.. You didn't even give me a response on my Counter Ideas!!! Instead you shift off to, "This will ruin the game".
Hoooray.... I get to play a shinier version of CT SvM... with Club House Remake and all... I'm sure I'll find the exact same weapons have a brand new feeling as they play the exact same way they did 3 years ago... (Oh except for those minor differences that I never noticed like Chaff not going through walls...)
Step off your pedestal and pretend like the game can be fun for 5 seconds. That even things you thought were Perfect in CT could be altered... and could actually end up better if the idea lasted more than 5 minutes on this forum. Yes, Balance is important, but stifling the creativity of members with technical babble from another game will only make them resent coming up with new ones. It's fortunate that I'm a good sport and will still try to give good questions when needed. No matter the assholery that spreads like wildfire here.
Still glad I could play my part though ;D
If we all could go back to not personally attacking each other this much in the Public Discussion forum? There's plenty of room to do that in Off-Topic and in PMs.
We'll have to see how the current version plays out. Depending on that, we'll consider some more tests with different stuff.
If you guys want to be taken seriously you should think about your ideas for more than five minutes before posting them. You think about nerfing berserk for more than five minutes, and you realise hey, this makes stairs/areas with lots of low spots to jump off impossible for mercs to survive in. Therefore it's bad and I shouldn't suggest it.
On the other hand we have Vega, who actually thought about his wierdo Leopard spies for a while, so they actually sound decent. How many people did you see in his thread telling him it was a terrible idea? None, because it wasn't. Why can't you guys be more like Vega?
hhaha i can't believe i just said that
ps at roberto
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg31.imageshack.us%2Fimg31%2F1615%2F1263836642321.jpg&hash=647ca83a8546323c6b311d8b32431b3fc23c15d1)
...useless ass forum...
Quote from: frvge on March 15, 2010, 12:50:03 PM
If we all could go back to not personally attacking each other this much in the Public Discussion forum? There's plenty of room to do that in Off-Topic and in PMs.
We'll have to see how the current version plays out. Depending on that, we'll consider some more tests with different stuff.
^^
Why can't we all get along as a happy family? We are all here for the same cause but nobody seems like each other...
And ideas are good...but they will all be either confirmed or denied once the beta comes out and final decisions are made after that for revision. Right now they can't keep any promises for changes when there is still a lot to be determined for the basics. Plus, more ideas will arise once the beta comes out, and they may be even better than the ones already proposed. Right now it is just a starting point for things to keep in mind for the future when it really counts. Compile your list of ideas, and then see what works and doesn't work later.
Quote from: cronkyThere's a point in my post somewhere
Well, learn to get to it and people might actually read it.
QuoteYou didn't even give me a response on my Counter Ideas!!! Instead you shift off to, "This will ruin the game".
I must have missed your suggestion in one of the many verbose walls of text you posted.
If an idea is stupid from a design perspective, you don't test it. I'm sure the devs could balance spies with rocket launchers if they really wanted to, but it's poor design. An uncounterable move is also poor design.
Quote from: Ambiguous Rocket on March 15, 2010, 02:43:02 PM
If you guys want to be taken seriously you should think about your ideas for more than five minutes before posting them. You think about nerfing berserk for more than five minutes, and you realise hey, this makes stairs/areas with lots of low spots to jump off impossible for mercs to survive in. Therefore it's bad and I shouldn't suggest it.
On the other hand we have Vega, who actually thought about his wierdo Leopard spies for a while, so they actually sound decent. How many people did you see in his thread telling him it was a terrible idea? None, because it wasn't. Why can't you guys be more like Vega?
hhaha i can't believe i just said that
The difference between Vega's Idea and these ones is that these aren't Choices. You Choose to be a different kind of spy. I can easily choose Not to be that spy too.
Plus this is a discussion. If I have to "Win" a discussion by thinking everything through for 4 days before hitting "Post", then I might as well make a new topic about it.
Nerfing Berserk... I guess that's a good word for it, but I'd rather give it a description like "Situational Stalemate".
Here's a new part of the idea (As suggested by Farley). You still get hurt Just as much as you would from a normal fall from that height. On top of that, the spy also loses 1/4 of his health as a penalty for actually having a good jump, but having done it while the Merc is Berserking. Both parties are stunned by this action. Meaning Spy may get a chance to live with such little health depending on the circumstances, but Merc's don't get an automatic KO. Plus the Spy is at even more risk if they drop from higher places. Since damage is Added to normal damage you'd incur, not negated.
Again this is only if they hit them on the Head. Any area outside of the head hitbox is treated exactly like the normal Berserk situation. You jump, you get KO'd, you're dead.
Quote from: Spekkio on March 15, 2010, 11:02:51 PM
Quote from: cronkyThere's a point in my post somewhere
Well, learn to get to it and people might actually read it.
QuoteYou didn't even give me a response on my Counter Ideas!!! Instead you shift off to, "This will ruin the game".
I must have missed your suggestion in one of the many verbose walls of text you posted.
If an idea is stupid from a design perspective, you don't test it. I'm sure the devs could balance spies with rocket launchers if they really wanted to, but it's poor design. An uncounterable move is also poor design.
If you don't want to take the time to read entire posts. Then don't comment on them. I read everyone's post regardless of length. Every Post in a thread that I want to post in. Perhaps I just read fast, I don't know, but it doesn't take all day. Then when I'm done... I happen to have the full knowledge of what they said. +1 to Knowledge for me.
(I understand you're a busy person, but I separated out my Longer Posts so that you could read parts that pertain to certain aspects that were being discussed)
I'm not sure you could make a worse example in comparison to this idea. "Heh Heh. Spies with Rocket Launchers is the same as Spies that can actually have a fleeing chance to a Berserking Merc".
I'm 100% sure they could balance this idea and it be the same exact game. Should I use your recent post about your Gadget Refill/Ammo Crate justification as an example? It would need to be balanced, but I'm sure a "Sweet Spot" could be achieved that satisfies both sides.
QuoteI'm 100% sure they could balance this idea and it be the same exact game. Should I use your recent post about your Gadget Refill/Ammo Crate justification as an example? It would need to be balanced, but I'm sure a "Sweet Spot" could be achieved that satisfies both sides.
As I mentioned before, it's a matter of design.
You can balance practically anything. The question is not whether something can be balanced, it's whether it warrants the time and energy spent balancing it. The phrase "needs testing" holds water for things like how many bullets to give the mercs or how long a KO should last. It does not apply to ideas that aren't good at the outset. But since you can't see the distinction between character progression in a normal game vs. unlockable "extras" through menial tasks, I don't expect you to see the distinction here, either.
You can balance the removal of berserk by taking out stairwells and having very few high areas, but that restricts maps to a point where the game could get very boring. There's really no reason to do this, other than the fact that you don't like the fact that pressing the shift key is apparently a lame way to counter someone else pressing W.
I admit the rocket launcher thing was rather extreme, but it is similar to your no-berserk idea in that both are contrary to the covert nature of the spy design. That's not to say spies can never be aggro, it's just that they're typically not as deadly doing so by themselves.
Quote from: Roberto1223 on March 15, 2010, 07:05:28 PM
...useless ass forum...
Yes, this forum is useless as an Ass Forum. There are no ass topics.
And ass is a good thing, so don't go saying "Well sure there r! lololol"
Quote from: Spekkio on March 16, 2010, 02:46:22 AM
QuoteI'm 100% sure they could balance this idea and it be the same exact game. Should I use your recent post about your Gadget Refill/Ammo Crate justification as an example? It would need to be balanced, but I'm sure a "Sweet Spot" could be achieved that satisfies both sides.
As I mentioned before, it's a matter of design.
You can balance practically anything. The question is not whether something can be balanced, it's whether it warrants the time and energy spent balancing it. The phrase "needs testing" holds water for things like how many bullets to give the mercs or how long a KO should last. It does not apply to ideas that aren't good at the outset. But since you can't see the distinction between character progression in a normal game vs. unlockable "extras" through menial tasks, I don't expect you to see the distinction here, either.
You can balance the removal of berserk by taking out stairwells and having very few high areas, but that restricts maps to a point where the game could get very boring. There's really no reason to do this, other than the fact that you don't like the fact that pressing the shift key is apparently a lame way to counter someone else pressing W.
That's just it though, I don't WANT Berserk gone. I did say multiple times that IF it was up to me it wouldn't be there, but the point of this idea was to KEEP it. Giving a situation in which the Spy has a possible way out. I point you to my response to Noop above yours. It adds a new dimension.
Again, this doesn't mean that the spy is negating the Merc's Jump Negating Move 100% of the time, just that it doesn't lead to an instant kill 100% of the time. The Merc also isn't knocked out.
After a few words with you on xFire you have put to light that there is only a small amount of situations where this would come into play. Only one that is justifiable that the Spy SHOULD win (A very extreme case at that). I understand that if the Merc KNOWS the Spy is jumping by a long shot then the Spy should lose no matter what, but this is the same kind of counter that can be said about a Spy Grabbing a Merc.
If a Spy Grabs a Merc the Spy should have Control of the Merc's fate. That being said the Merc's partner CAN kill the Spy before he does anything. Assuming that the Spy is competent enough to not point their back at the Merc's Partner; this Merc COULD shoot the Spy in the Head. Taking skill this partner could kill the Spy, but had a higher chance of hitting the Merc. It's a very specific situation, but one that connects slightly to the given problem and gives an example of a different outcome.
------------------------------------------------------
I believe the a revision of this mechanic need be said for clarification:-AoE for Berserk is still the same.
-Berserk now has Two Hitboxes. One being the body/gun swinging, the other being the Merc's head (Small enough to warrant only a perfect jump/drop to achieve)
-If Spy lands inside in normal radius of attack, whether jumping or not they are KO'd like normal.
-If Spy happens to land on the Merc's Head, they "Slip" off. Incurring a penalty of some amount of health for failing a jump (Added to the heath penalty of a high drop if applicable).
-The Merc is momentarily stunned so as give the Spy a VERY Small chance at escape with their now Lesser Health.
-Merc's would be ungrabbable/unjumpable in this stunned state (Much like if jumped on, and standing back up), and immediately able to do Berserk or Rush once out as to avoid a wait and grab/jump technique.
Of course most of it is up for debate, but the idea is still legit.
Quote from: Cronky on March 16, 2010, 12:31:03 AM
The difference between Vega's Idea and these ones is that these aren't Choices. You Choose to be a different kind of spy. I can easily choose Not to be that spy too.
Plus this is a discussion. If I have to "Win" a discussion by thinking everything through for 4 days before hitting "Post", then I might as well make a new topic about it.
Okay, you refuse to think and keep posting shit. Sure that'll convince a lot of people.
Quote from: Ambiguous Rocket on March 16, 2010, 07:48:33 AM
Quote from: Cronky on March 16, 2010, 12:31:03 AM
The difference between Vega's Idea and these ones is that these aren't Choices. You Choose to be a different kind of spy. I can easily choose Not to be that spy too.
Plus this is a discussion. If I have to "Win" a discussion by thinking everything through for 4 days before hitting "Post", then I might as well make a new topic about it.
Okay, you refuse to think and keep posting shit. Sure that'll convince a lot of people.
Wow, you are just SO unimaginative.
You can only say SO much in one post that people will actually read/understand. I think my long ass posts are proof of that. How many did you actually read all the way through? While an idea may be flawed at the start, as discussion grows; so does the idea.
Now this technique dies off if the only people responding are just whiny *Censored* that decide to black and white mode everything. Can't come up with ONE way this might work? Then voice your opinion and GTFO. I don't need to read and respond 90 times with the same information, but if you keep stomping an idea. Then my hands are TIED.
I like creativity. I like new Ideas. What I like best is being that person that's on the minority side of the opinion. These ideas satisfy all my likes :)
Sorry I don't have all the answers, but LOOK at that. 6 pages in and the idea has grown ever so slightly. Imagine what it could be if it was looked at with positive answers.
Quote from: Spekkio on March 15, 2010, 11:02:51 PM
Quote from: cronkyThere's a point in my post somewhere
Well, learn to get to it and people might actually read it.
QuoteYou didn't even give me a response on my Counter Ideas!!! Instead you shift off to, "This will ruin the game".
I must have missed your suggestion in one of the many verbose walls of text you posted.
If an idea is stupid from a design perspective, you don't test it. I'm sure the devs could balance spies with rocket launchers if they really wanted to, but it's poor design. An uncounterable move is also poor design.
DO YOU EVEN UNDERSTAND WHAT "EFFECTIVE HIT SURFACE AREA" MEANS??
WHY DO YOU KEEP SAYING IT WILL MAKE IT AN UNCOUNTERABLE MOVE!!!!
CAN YOU PLEASE TAKE A MINUTE TO ANALYSE MY DRAWING ON THE FIRST PAGE AND REALIZED THAT IF THE MERC WOULD MOVE A LITTLE AND THEN BERSERK HE COULD VERY WELL PUT THE SPY ON THE "REGISTERED HIT SURFACE AREA"?
Quote from: Roberto1223 on March 15, 2010, 11:07:38 AM
Quote from: Ambiguous Rocket on March 14, 2010, 12:19:19 PM
Cronky, have you ever played CT? Because I mean I'm not sure if you've noticed or not but spies aren't actually meant to go for frontal confrontations. That's why their elbow just knocks mercs back, but mercs can charge and ko/do damage. If a spy gets seen while he attacks he is actually meant to lose. If a spy is trying to sneak up on a merc but the merc turns and sees him the spy is meant to lose. If a spy is trying to jump a merc but the merc sees him do it the spy is meant to lose.
If you try to jump a guy and he berserks you then you should die. Just like if you go to grab someone and they turn around at the last second and charge you. You attacked, you failed, you should pay for it. You shouldn't get away because your attack was so perfect, because if they had time to notice what you were doing and counter it then it wasn't really perfect was it?
ok so, if your crossing the road and you see a car coming at 120 mph heading towards you a split second before it hits you and u launch yourself onto the sidewalk but not fast enough and the car still runs over you, you survive? dosent make sense. i think youd still die, the fact that u saw ur death coming dosent make you invincible. sorry man i suggest you stop watching pokemon and find yourself a job.
Cant u respond to my posts? respond instead of sending me a dumb anime drawing...
@Roberto
Do tell me if I'm expressing your idea wrong. I'm just able to post frequently and go by what I think it is that you mean.
I sugges u guys please free your minds and try to understand new ideas before you negate them.
my idea is not to make a spy's jump uncounterable, it is to make it actually useful in BS moments of online gameplay.
All im trying to do is get rid of BS moments.
Allow me to illustrate my idea with an example of some generic shooter game.
-Suppose that countestrike has a very crappy headshot hit register code (or whatever), and that PS is being created in an effort to elaborate a new and improved shooter.
-Now imagine a guy in the forum proposes the idea of "hey the headshot register area is so shitty that i get headshots sometimes without even aiming at the enemy's head. I think that the hit zone should be reduced to the head only!"
-Then imagine twat guy comes along and says "noooo OMFG THAT WOULD ruin gameplay omfg omfg have to get headshots easily, thats what the concept of tha game is all about. The game is meant to be this way lulul omfg. LEARN TO PLAY AND GET SUM ZKILLS HIHIHI, im do pro!"
(Thats u and ambiguous rocket).
Quote from: Cronky on March 16, 2010, 08:36:21 AM
@Roberto
Do tell me if I'm expressing your idea wrong. I'm just able to post frequently and go by what I think it is that you mean.
yeah I think you do understand it very well and I really appreciate the fact that you stand up for my
idea, thanks bro. I just think these
Forum Idea Police/Executive douchebags are annoying...These posts are headed towards whoever is saying my idea is "BS" sorry if u thought i was bashing ya. I was not.
Quote from: Roberto1223 on March 16, 2010, 08:34:10 AM
Cant u respond to my posts? respond instead of sending me a dumb anime drawing...
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg714.imageshack.us%2Fimg714%2F1442%2F1265593936475.gif&hash=ea0297f235e3946331d930f720f7c97d76521ca6)
Quote from: Ambiguous Rocket on March 16, 2010, 09:09:38 AM
Quote from: Roberto1223 on March 16, 2010, 08:34:10 AM
Cant u respond to my posts? respond instead of sending me a dumb anime drawing...
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg714.imageshack.us%2Fimg714%2F1442%2F1265593936475.gif&hash=ea0297f235e3946331d930f720f7c97d76521ca6)
Classy
Quote from: Ambiguous Rocket on March 16, 2010, 09:09:38 AM
Quote from: Roberto1223 on March 16, 2010, 08:34:10 AM
Cant u respond to my posts? respond instead of sending me a dumb anime drawing...
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg714.imageshack.us%2Fimg714%2F1442%2F1265593936475.gif&hash=ea0297f235e3946331d930f720f7c97d76521ca6)
Drawings do not move. I c wat u dud thar.
The drawings aren't moving there either, they're just animated together at a certain frame rate. 8)
You guys are thinking about this too much.
Quote from: STON3COLDKILLA on March 17, 2010, 03:16:26 PM
The drawings aren't moving there either, they're just animated together at a certain frame rate. 8)
Nu uh.