I was thinking because I saw some suggestions of letting bodies stay and not dissappear. So I started thinking about it. What if you could refill your gadgets off of dead bodies?
Example:
As a merc you die. When you die you still have a couple frags in your backpack. So, if you find your dead body you refill and get 2 frags back. This would encourage spies to pick up bodies and hide them or just drag them to a dark area.
I think it would be pretty cool. To hide the body of the merc you just killed to prevent him from getting a few extra frags might be pretty nice. And if the spy doesn't take the time to dispose of the body then the merc would be rewarded with whatever he had in his backpack when he died. He could refill on anything like mines, frags, spy traps, flares, maybe gas mask fuel?
Note that he can't refill on the frags that he spawned with, only the stuff in his backpack. If he used all the contents in his backpack before he died then the body would be empty and he wouldn't be able to refill.
It sounds pretty interesting to me, and could add some awesome situations.
Discuss.
Collecting things of your own body is a bit strange, even in the world of make believe ;)
I agree, but it would be fun to hide bodies from mercs so they can't get a refill. ;D
Or maybe instead of your body your backpack remains (if you carried a backpack when you died). And spies can hide that somewhere, and if you happen to find it, you might get some extra gadgets. (flares, mines, frags, traps, and gas mask fuel maybe)
It would be a good idea if the spy takes the little extra time to hide the backpack (or body) where the merc can't get to it. Otherwise you could be facing a merc with extra gear and frags especially.
I foresee teams suiciding at key points in the map as part of a setup strategy to create ammo pickup spots, or suiciding all at one place to have a dead-body equipment stockpile.
Because you've got nothing but time after you break a neck...
If you take away the mad dash to the nearest objective, what was the point of attacking the merc in the first place? Given the choice between getting (at least part way) an objective or hiding a body, what spy would choose to give up the advantage of having one of the mercs in limbo waiting to respawn? And the end result (in my eyes) is just a needless boost to mercs without a real "choice" from spies.
By the way, if you can collect things from dead bodies, wouldn't that be an argument to remove bodies from the game after a set time?
It's not just after you break a neck, it's if he dies, no matter what way he does.
Why would you kill yourself so you can have 2 frags set up in one spot and leave yourself with 2 lives? Stupid. I just think that if you die and you come back and there is still a backpack there then you can pick some up. A spy could just pick that up and move it somewhere hidden real quick to keep the merc from gaining more frags.
Maybe carrying the merc's backpack wouldn't slow you down, but you wouldn't be able to use gadgets or ss while carrying it. That way you can still make your mad dash for the nearest objective and hide the backpack at the same time.
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 30, 2007, 10:49:19 AM
It's not just after you break a neck, it's if he dies, no matter what way he does.
Thanks? You've just expanded my argument. No matter how the merc dies, I'd still rush to the closest objective and not think twice about hiding the body.
it's no real choice for spies and allows lots of exploits for the mercs, so i say no.
it could work in a different way though: when the merc dies, he leaves everything he has left in a backpack (that can slowly be moved by the spies but not into vents/vertically etc). when he respawns, he gets a smaller amount of each gadget like 3 nades, 2 mines etc. this way, suicide for eq is nerfed and you have the tactical option to waste time/leave position looking for/fetching your dropped bp. on the other side, it's a boost for aggro and enhances spamming eq before u die.
but i still think it's not worth the implementation effort and the influence on gameplay is arguable.
i also find it kinda strange that you can see a spy walk away with your old body.
or is the merc some kind of matrix agent, use the body of the host and when you are done or die just leave it to reclaim another body.
a spy walking with a merc body would give him access to security doors
that would only open for mercs.
if a merc dies and his body wil dissapear and leaves a backpack is normal for classic games.
also it would be easier for the spy to move around.
climing with a body into a vent is a pain in the bud.
will there be a other + point for the spy taking the backpack.
will taking a backpack enhanche the spy in some way.
giving the spy access to the mercs gadgets wont be a good idea
enhanche the spies gadgets effectiveness ?
...how about the bp would explode when shocked?
I know, imba, im just brainstorming.
if the mercs have this ability, shouldn't the spies be able to take stuff off their own bodies?
Yeah.
And how about taking your mate's eq from the bp when he has no more lives?
It's kinda strange when the two useless nades just stay there instead of doing some work.
Well the only real cool thing that can from this idea in my point of view, is that you can gain access to merc only doors (except for spawns)
You could also make it so that you could only do this if you neck snapped the merc, otherwise team kills and suicides will not allow the spy to pick the merc up.
Yeah bad idea. All it is a benefit to tactical suicide for mercs. Spies aren't going to be running around hiding bodies.
Quote from: Overstatement on December 30, 2007, 11:01:49 AM
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 30, 2007, 10:49:19 AM
It's not just after you break a neck, it's if he dies, no matter what way he does.
Thanks? You've just expanded my argument. No matter how the merc dies, I'd still rush to the closest objective and not think twice about hiding the body.
Ummm, no? That's why I suggested only the backpack remains if the merc was carrying one. If only the backpack remains it doesn't slow the spy down but he can't use his ss while he is carrying it. That way, you can STILL rush to the nearest objective at the same time you are attempting to keep the extra frags away from the merc.
Maybe spies should be able to refill a grenade or a sticky cam or two from their dead bodies? Maybe from their teammate's dead body.
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on December 30, 2007, 07:58:15 PM
Yeah bad idea. All it is a benefit to tactical suicide for mercs. Spies aren't going to be running around hiding bodies.
Again. This is why I suggested the backpack only remaining. Spies can still run full speed carrying only the backpack, possibly throw it over their shoulder. And no one is going to take the time to hide it in a vent. Of course they would probably just throw it in the shadows or behind a box or something.
Who the hell is going to waste one of their lives for 2 frags in one spot that the spies can easily move and hide?
I'd so enjoy hauling spy corpes around in pursuit of setting up traps.
Well it'd be kidnda nice if it worked like single player bank mission, where carrying a merc with you (dead or alive) made it so you could bypass lasers. I could imagine it'd be reasonably useful to spies to use mercs as a door opener, and the mercs would be the ones hiding the bodies, not the spies.
Having it be backpack only kinda sucks too because that means that you're powering up the backpack, and it really doesn't need a buff.
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on December 31, 2007, 02:30:25 AM
Well it'd be kidnda nice if it worked like single player bank mission, where carrying a merc with you (dead or alive) made it so you could bypass lasers. I could imagine it'd be reasonably useful to spies to use mercs as a door opener, and the mercs would be the ones hiding the bodies, not the spies.
Having it be backpack only kinda sucks too because that means that you're powering up the backpack, and it really doesn't need a buff.
Agreed. But perhaps the dead body would still show up on the friend's HUD? That way, if you start moving the body the other merc will know you're still there - which can be used for setting up traps too. I think it'd work.
I think it would be awesome to pile up the dead merc bodies. ;D
It wouldn't be too time consuming to run over a backpack and take it with you into dark area and leave it there. What if it took like 3 or 4 seconds to refill from your backpack you find on the ground? Like you bend over and empty the contents of it for about 5 seconds. That way you could set up traps also. Like you put the backpack in an area that looks safe. Then when the merc goes to refill you run up and grab him in the time it takes for him to get the stuff back.
I think that could actually work.
Letting bodies die and not decay immediately is probably the worst idea that could be implemented into the game. Having the ability to move them and take items from your previous body is equally bad. Not only is it extremely silly but it also hurts gameplay.
It's ridiculous to see your old body and be able to take items from it. It's a 4-player stealth action multiplayer, not a 32-player FPS. Leaving bodies in a large-scale game makes a little more sense because the game's goal is usually to imitate war or a large battle -- thus having multiple bodies lieing around to give it that war-like atmosphere. With our small, usually indoor maps, the idea of seeing your self lieing on the ground is just retarded. "Wait, lemme grab some nades off this body that looks very similar to me. Good thing the spy can't use these nades against me, he can only move the body lol stupid spy."
Mic previously mentioned how this could hurt gameplay as players could use the dead body as a key point for defending an objective. Besides that, hiding a body is simply a lame mechanic to add to this game. Oh goodie, you can hide a body, put a cam near the body, then trigger the cam to knock-out the merc. Wow, that was some pretty awesome tactics there. I'm glad our game turns from "find the spy" to "find the body." That's a slight exxageration with my last sentence, but it's a stupid mechanic to add nonetheless.
I'm not trying to bash the idea, well I am, but I'm putting forth my opinion because I feel this hurts gameplay in a negative way.
^ I completely agree with that.
I would also add that it destroys the stealth feel of the game. "wow, many people here"
hmm....i strongly agree that leaving bodies would NOT work for this game.
Perhaps blood splatter marks wouldnt be a bad idea.
(imagine a spy aggro fest and subsequent slaughter with shotgun)
Well if I'd want to see some violent scenes of death I'd go play F.E.A.R. Really, if you're going to make this game bloody, you should make the bodies stay, at least for some time - otherwise it's a pretty broken immersion IMO. (The biggest letdown in FEAR was that all the decails faded away too fast.) I think it's pretty worthess to make a mention in the feature list saying "Hey we've got some kickass killing game with a perfect atmosphere". if this statement is true for the first ten seconds after a fight. Beyond that, all you see are the bodies, and everything looks as if there hadn't been any fighting taken place at all.
So, why bother creating violent art in the first place, if you're going to leave half out of it right at the handshake?
Although I agree on having blood and bodies, I disagree that they should be interactive.
My first impression of this idea is that it sounds rather silly. I'm trying to imagine it in my head on how it's going to be like, but it just seems really out of place. Now the backpack seems ok, but that depends on dervs on how many number of items allowed for each gadget/nade. If they give the mercs an adequate amount of gadgets then this idea is scraped, but if the amount allowed for each item is really low then it may work.
Wandering has it right.
And how the fuck may I ask that ANYONE ever would get the idea that it would turn the game into a 32 person FPS? That just doesn't make the slightest sense at all. How many deaths would you say there are in a game? Depending on who wins it is usually about 7 deaths. 7 does not equal 32. And the bodies would be scattered across the map. I even suggested only backpacks remaining. Tell me how, Vega, if backpacks remain turn it into a different kind of game.
Get this:
3 lives per merc
6 merc lives total
IF they both brought backpack that would equal 5 total refills because the last guy can't refill on his own dead body right? Because the game would be over if he died.
IF THEY EVEN had anything left in their backpack when they died you would be able to refilll ONLY that.
Example:
If a merc refills comletely on all of his gadgets before he dies his backpack on his dead body would be empty. The person who tries to refill on it would get NOTHING because the backpack would be empty.
FURTHERMORE, if the spy can hide the backpack because he suspects that there may be some extra frags left in it.
I REALLY do not understand why just having a few backpacks laying around ( that may not even contain anything, and that spies can hide easily ) would alter the game into a 32 person FPS. WTF? And why would we not want to add dead bodies to add that creepy atmosphere?
Quote from: Vega on December 31, 2007, 10:49:17 AM
"Wait, lemme grab some nades off this body that looks very similar to me. Good thing the spy can't use these nades against me, he can only move the body lol stupid spy."
Wait, so now you are using the realism argument? wow. Since when has the spy been about killing? Non lethal force spies only use LETHAL force if they have to. So, they would just hide the nades (or destroy them) and not use them against the merc anyways, correct?
But DOES the backpack really need a boost?
It's actually not much of a boost really. Spies can counter it so easily if they choose to. And even if they didn't counter it, it would only be 2 frags or a couple mines or so. IF someone has full equipment then obviously they wouldn't be able to refill anything from it. So, they can't just go right back to where they died and get more gadgets.
PLUS the fact that it would take 4-5 seconds to refill from the backpack on the ground. It could be used as traps for spies to set up. Like I already said, they could put a sticky cam right next to it, then when he goes to refill from it, gas him and run to the next objective. Or you could use it as a killing trap. Like you set up the backpack in a nice spot that looks safe to refill from and wait for the merc to go refill from it. While the merc is refilling, you run up and grab him.
I think it would be fun.
once again papaskull shows eveyone his arrogance to read / his inability to comprehend former posts (>vega) and the fact that he has no clue of this game ::)
Quote from: goodkebab on December 31, 2007, 12:26:13 PM
hmm....i strongly agree that leaving bodies would NOT work for this game.
Perhaps blood splatter marks wouldnt be a bad idea.
(imagine a spy aggro fest and subsequent slaughter with shotgun)
the only prob is that with a new engine in mind, that means correct me im wrong but , Bullets will hit due to stable servers / everything made from scratch, so thus you wouldnt be able to do this run around the mull berry bush with the monkey chasing the weasel =/.
The dead body thing doesn't work for this game. Nice concept, but necessary for a more "war-based" game.
Quote from: Gawain on January 01, 2008, 03:17:29 PM
once again papaskull shows eveyone his arrogance to read / his inability to comprehend former posts (>vega) and the fact that he has no clue of this game ::)
Once again Gawain come up with an insult that has no reasoning or proof behind it.
Why would this only work for a war game? Honestly. Splinter cell Single Player you could haul bodies. That's not a war game is it? No. Why is it so wrong to have dead bodies in a game where killing is common? Why not make them interactive somewhat? The only thing that would be interactive would be backpacks. And there is NO guarantee that there will be something in it when you go to refill.
Papa, reasons why its a bad idea were listed above. They're quite convincing.
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 01, 2008, 09:27:40 PM
Why would this only work for a war game? Honestly. Splinter cell Single Player you could haul bodies. That's not a war game is it? No. Why is it so wrong to have dead bodies in a game where killing is common?
You are able to haul bodies in single player because it is sometimes
necessary in order to continue the game. Also, this feature supports the game's concept of stealth by making it more difficult for your enemies to become aware your presence. Now, in SvM bodies do not play any role at all. Secondly, the mercs are usually aware of your existance in the level, so there won't be any need to cover your advance, because tehre are no NPC characters in the game. The reason why this is, that you are playing against real human players, and a game like that has to play fluently in order to be fun. Making up time-consuming actions is not going to serve any purpose in a fast-paced concept such as this.
I also would like to clarify wheter you people are arguing for or against bodies alone, or bodies that are interactive? Just asking because I wouldn't mind the former.
QuoteWhy not make them interactive somewhat? The only thing that would be interactive would be backpacks. And there is NO guarantee that there will be something in it when you go to refill.
Why do we have to make them interactive? If backpack would be the only thing that could give your the refill, it would become a norm for many people to take it, because it automatically inreases the theoretical maximum of gadges the mercs can have on the field. This advantege will not be gained if BP is not taken, so the idea is flawed.
Could please explain how you would not be sure how much stuff you find in the backpack, if you knew it was full when you died?
I know that. I was only explaining that hauling bodies don't belong in a war game, but can exist in stealth games also.
I suggest that the bodies stay. You wouldn't be able to do anything with them. They would, however, react to explosions and such. Like if you grenade an area next to the body the body would fly a few feet. Or if you walk over the body you would push it.
IF the body of the person had a backpack on it, you would be able to remove it from the body and hide it if you were spy. If you were merc, you could refill on the backpack if you find it. The refill would take 4-5 seconds so spies can use them as traps if they are smart enough.
You would only be able to refill your gadgets if you were missing some. Like if you had full gadgets, 4 frags, then you wouldn't be able to get anything from it. And think about it. If you are a merc you can only die 2 times and still live. So there would only be 2 backpacks out there, if you brought them, that possibly have some frags. Spies can hide them also. You would also be able to use your dead teammate's backpack, if you find it and if it contains something, to refill. Which may not be the smartest thing to do because it takes some time.
The backpack wouldn't slow the spy down, so he could just run over it and throw it over his shoulder and continue to run full speed.
Really, this would only be a small part of gameplay, but it could add some fun situations for traps.
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 31, 2007, 08:54:12 PM
And how the fuck may I ask that ANYONE ever would get the idea that it would turn the game into a 32 person FPS? That just doesn't make the slightest sense at all. How many deaths would you say there are in a game? Depending on who wins it is usually about 7 deaths. 7 does not equal 32. And the bodies would be scattered across the map. I even suggested only backpacks remaining. Tell me how, Vega, if backpacks remain turn it into a different kind of game.
Get this:
3 lives per merc
6 merc lives total
IF they both brought backpack that would equal 5 total refills because the last guy can't refill on his own dead body right? Because the game would be over if he died.
IF THEY EVEN had anything left in their backpack when they died you would be able to refilll ONLY that.
Example:
If a merc refills comletely on all of his gadgets before he dies his backpack on his dead body would be empty. The person who tries to refill on it would get NOTHING because the backpack would be empty.
FURTHERMORE, if the spy can hide the backpack because he suspects that there may be some extra frags left in it.
I REALLY do not understand why just having a few backpacks laying around ( that may not even contain anything, and that spies can hide easily ) would alter the game into a 32 person FPS. WTF? And why would we not want to add dead bodies to add that creepy atmosphere?
I'm not going to answer this because it is blatantly obvious you did not understand my post. Re-read my post and then get back to me. I gotta hand it to you when it comes to looking like an ass, you pull it off flawlessly.
QuoteWait, so now you are using the realism argument? wow. Since when has the spy been about killing? Non lethal force spies only use LETHAL force if they have to. So, they would just hide the nades (or destroy them) and not use them against the merc anyways, correct?
Haha you did it again. I guess sarcasm flies over your head, too. ::)
"You would only be able to refill your gadgets if you were missing some. Like if you had full gadgets, 4 frags, then you wouldn't be able to get anything from it. And think about it. If you are a merc you can only die 2 times and still live. So there would only be 2 backpacks out there, if you brought them, that possibly have some frags. Spies can hide them also. You would also be able to use your dead teammate's backpack, if you find it and if it contains something, to refill. Which may not be the smartest thing to do because it takes some time."
Did you even read my post? I thought I already explained that there is no way to make the BP interactive and optional at the same time without giving it a buff, because it still increases the amount of equipment on the field available for the mercs beyond the standard.
Besides, you can't possibly argue for any gameplay mechanic that, in order the be functioning as intented, requires a certain playstyle.
"IF the body of the person had a backpack on it, you would be able to remove it from the body and hide it if you were spy. If you were merc, you could refill on the backpack if you find it. The refill would take 4-5 seconds so spies can use them as traps if they are smart enough."
Do you really think BP+Cam traps would work after the first week? Every single time I'd see a PB somewhere I'd just flip my mask on, assuming I ever need to refill from the dead. That's just as easy to counter like most of the quickcams, and that doesn't really count as "smart" behaviour in my book.
I say we can think about this AFTER testing, if the backpack somehow turns out to be underpowered.
Quote from: Cyntrox on January 02, 2008, 12:41:11 AM
I say we can think about this AFTER testing, if the backpack somehow turns out to be underpowered.
It's not going to work in the first place, because if backpack stays on the ground and can be used to refill, then it definetly encourages it's selection over the others. Therefore it's not a valid gadget, unless it was made a gimmic, but that's not a good idea either.
*Edit*
I'll give you one possible example of why the backpack is underpowered: You can't get enough stuff from it. Solution: add moar stuff; no need to make them stay on the ground. Oh I know, lemme just shove that proxy into my backpack so it'll just go off whenever a spy gets near, so no-one has to worry about it later on.
Quote from: Kurbutti on January 02, 2008, 12:44:22 AM
definetly encourages it's selection over the others.
Well, OF COURSE it does! Hence giving it more power >.>
The bodies should not stay... It should be like the suits in Crysis... When an agent die, the suit will vaporize the dead body.
Quote from: MulleDK13 on January 02, 2008, 01:13:12 AM
The bodies should not stay... It should be like the suits in Crysis... When an agent die, the suit will vaporize the dead body.
That's a good idea. But what about the mercenary? Same? Oh well, beats blink-blink.
Quote from: Vega on December 31, 2007, 10:49:17 AM
Letting bodies die and not decay immediately is probably the worst idea that could be implemented into the game. Having the ability to move them and take items from your previous body is equally bad. Not only is it extremely silly but it also hurts gameplay.
It's ridiculous to see your old body and be able to take items from it. It's a 4-player stealth action multiplayer, not a 32-player FPS. Leaving bodies in a large-scale game makes a little more sense because the game's goal is usually to imitate war or a large battle -- thus having multiple bodies lieing around to give it that war-like atmosphere. With our small, usually indoor maps, the idea of seeing your self lieing on the ground is just retarded. "Wait, lemme grab some nades off this body that looks very similar to me. Good thing the spy can't use these nades against me, he can only move the body lol stupid spy."
Mic previously mentioned how this could hurt gameplay as players could use the dead body as a key point for defending an objective. Besides that, hiding a body is simply a lame mechanic to add to this game. Oh goodie, you can hide a body, put a cam near the body, then trigger the cam to knock-out the merc. Wow, that was some pretty awesome tactics there. I'm glad our game turns from "find the spy" to "find the body." That's a slight exxageration with my last sentence, but it's a stupid mechanic to add nonetheless.
I'm not trying to bash the idea, well I am, but I'm putting forth my opinion because I feel this hurts gameplay in a negative way.
I read your post. And there is NO fucking way that a few bodies would ever make it FEEL like a 32 person war game. Ever. In a 32 person war game there would be MUCH more bodies than a maximum of 12 bodies (1 merc and 1 spy left) USUALLY it won't even get to 8 dead bodies, because USUALLY there are about 8 deaths per game. Tell me how 8 bodies creates a warlike atmosphere like 32 bodies would? IT WOULDN'T! Furthermore, the 8 bodies would be a little more scattered, in maps like Splinter Cell because the action takes place all over the map. So, every now and then, you MAY come across a dead body. That would give more of a creepy feel than a war feel.
They wouldn't block things ffs, who said that?
Quote from: Kurbutti on January 02, 2008, 12:44:22 AM
definetly encourages it's selection over the others.
Does that really matter? Seriously. Backpack is already used by 90% of players, pretty much every match. It's already used by the majority, so why does it matter if it's boosted? It's not like it's going to change everything.
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 02, 2008, 01:27:20 AM
Does that really matter? Seriously. Backpack is already used by 90% of players, pretty much every match. It's already used by the majority, so why does it matter if it's boosted? It's not like it's going to change everything.
Worst argument ever.
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 02, 2008, 01:27:20 AM
Does that really matter? Seriously. Backpack is already used by 90% of players, pretty much every match. It's already used by the majority, so why does it matter if it's boosted? It's not like it's going to change everything.
I have to admit that's a very rough statistic. Let's play there are ten teams playing as merc. What are their most likely gadgets? I'd guess the total amount of people using backpacks would be more close to 50/50, than 90/10.
Why should it be boosted? I mean, is it broken or what? You seem to argue for the boost simply for it's undoubtable coolness, not against current backpack's theorized flaws Afterwards, you simply wrap it up with made-up statistics and thorw it onto the table. I'm afraid that's not going to work.
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on January 02, 2008, 01:30:08 AM
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 02, 2008, 01:27:20 AM
Does that really matter? Seriously. Backpack is already used by 90% of players, pretty much every match. It's already used by the majority, so why does it matter if it's boosted? It's not like it's going to change everything.
Worst argument ever.
True.
Gas mask is used by 90% of all players, so let's give it unlimited air supply!
i'd say over 90% of the time at least one merc in a good team has backpack, but this is no argument whatsoever.
papa, you suggest adding something similar to a mini-game that would in no way enhance the core gameplay. your only gameplay argument is that it wouldn't make much difference, but if it doesn't you can drop the idea anyways, can't you? besides, it's kinda random and thus can't be good for the balance. dying in a non-central place would be worse than dying in a central place etc...
if you want to go for more realism to enhance the athmosphere, there are tons of better ways to do that. you can add blood to a certain extend, rag doll animation, a (gentle) pulse sound while being chased, dramatic lightning, more impressive and realistic gun sounds/explosions/impact on materials, etc
i really like the vaporization idea, especially for spies.
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 02, 2008, 01:27:20 AM
I read your post. And there is NO fucking way that a few bodies would ever make it FEEL like a 32 person war game. Ever. In a 32 person war game there would be MUCH more bodies than a maximum of 12 bodies (1 merc and 1 spy left) USUALLY it won't even get to 8 dead bodies, because USUALLY there are about 8 deaths per game. Tell me how 8 bodies creates a warlike atmosphere like 32 bodies would? IT WOULDN'T! Furthermore, the 8 bodies would be a little more scattered, in maps like Splinter Cell because the action takes place all over the map. So, every now and then, you MAY come across a dead body. That would give more of a creepy feel than a war feel.
You may have read my post again, but you still don't understand it. It's not suprising but I thought a second time around would have helped you. Maybe you're being stubborn or maybe you really just don't get it -- probably both. Here's the gist of my argument;
I said the idea of having bodies lieing around is stupid and that it's makes more sense in a large scale war-like game (such as a 32-player FPS). I never said "Having bodies around makes it a 32 PLAYER FPS OMG!" I stated that it's makes more sense in a 32-player game because it gives a war-like atmosphere. Then, I said how keeping bodies around in a 4-player game like SvM is stupid because you essentially see yourself and that it's tactically unbalanced for the game. That's my opinion, you can argue that all you want, but you're not even at that point yet.
As usual, you interpret what I say, throw it
way out of proportion and concept and then argue against it like a dumbass. This is evident when you start to count out how many bodies would be present in a typical game of SvM (you counted around 7 or so). I love how you go to such detailed explanations on something I don't even present in my argument. It's quite funny.
QuoteThey wouldn't block things ffs, who said that?
Again, as you've shown to do in the past, you quote me and make up random, non-existant points. "They wouldn't block things ffs, who said that?" Yeah, Papa, who actually said that? My posts certainly didn't nor did they imply it. Someone is cuckooooo.
ok sooo .... enought bashing each other and each other's ideas and back to the topic, personally I think a few bodies lieing around would be cool. i also like the idea of the disolving suit. My proposal is to have the spy bodies disapear and the merc bodies to stay, but they will not be interactive. Maybe some ragdoll if you walk into them, ie: them roll over on the floor.
LOL... Imagine somebody wants to play for fun, so they use these settings
Time: Inf.
Merc Lifes: Inf.
Spy Lifes: Inf.
Now imaging 1 hour of gameplay with 2 deaths per minute -.-
LOL... 120 bodies lying around!
Quote from: Vega on January 02, 2008, 03:15:17 AM
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 02, 2008, 01:27:20 AM
I read your post. And there is NO fucking way that a few bodies would ever make it FEEL like a 32 person war game. Ever. In a 32 person war game there would be MUCH more bodies than a maximum of 12 bodies (1 merc and 1 spy left) USUALLY it won't even get to 8 dead bodies, because USUALLY there are about 8 deaths per game. Tell me how 8 bodies creates a warlike atmosphere like 32 bodies would? IT WOULDN'T! Furthermore, the 8 bodies would be a little more scattered, in maps like Splinter Cell because the action takes place all over the map. So, every now and then, you MAY come across a dead body. That would give more of a creepy feel than a war feel.
You may have read my post again, but you still don't understand it. It's not suprising but I thought a second time around would have helped you. Maybe you're being stubborn or maybe you really just don't get it -- probably both. Here's the gist of my argument; I said the idea of having bodies lieing around is stupid and that it's makes more sense in a large scale war-like game (such as a 32-player FPS). I never said "Having bodies around makes it a 32 PLAYER FPS OMG!" I stated that it's makes more sense in a 32-player game because it gives a war-like atmosphere. Then, I said how keeping bodies around in a 4-player game like SvM is stupid because you essentially see yourself and that it's tactically unbalanced for the game. That's my opinion, you can argue that all you want, but you're not even at that point yet.
As usual, you interpret what I say, throw it way out of proportion and concept and then argue against it like a dumbass. This is evident when you start to count out how many bodies would be present in a typical game of SvM (you counted around 7 or so). I love how you go to such detailed explanations on something I don't even present in my argument. It's quite funny.
QuoteThey wouldn't block things ffs, who said that?
Again, as you've shown to do in the past, you quote me and make up random, non-existant points. "They wouldn't block things ffs, who said that?" Yeah, Papa, who actually said that? My posts certainly didn't nor did they imply it. Someone is cuckooooo.
And you STILL DON'T get my fucking point man, there WON'T BE even close to 32 bodies. Fewer than 8 bodies (spread across the map) wouldn't create that warlike atmosphere that war games try to create! With FEWER bodies it would in fact create a more creepy feeling. So you bringing up a war game with tons of players is completely out of the question buddy. With a few deaths it would be a lot different, A LOT. You had no point. So with bodies remaining, not 32 of them ffs, it would create a better atmosphere. And yes, lighting, blood and gore, and sound effects can help achieve this. But nothing would come close to coming across a dead merc's body in a pool of blood when you know a spy is around - and vice versa.
QuoteThen, I said how keeping bodies around in a 4-player game like SvM is stupid because you essentially see yourself and that it's tactically unbalanced for the game.
Umm, wow, wtf? Tell me how keeping a dead body would even have the slightest effect on balance. I can see how if you could refill from the backpacks it would, but not if just the bodies remained. I went on to tell you why it would be balanced but you have no response for that yet. It's such a tiny addition to the game, but it would add some interesting situations without making something completely unbalanced.
Quoteas players could use the dead body as a key point for defending an objective.
I figured this was what you were talking about. I've also seen people say stuff about bodies blocking vent shafts and so forth. I thought this was what you were bringing back up again and it didn't have anything to do with my suggestion. If I was mistaken, I apologize.
As for traps, they would work yes. You just wouldn't move the body or backpack at all, then the merc wouldn't get the idea that a spy is around. Of course you would be around, then you wait until he commits to the 5 seconds to refill to run up and grab him or gas him.
And you've got to be kidding me. Do you think that it is such a huge boost that it would even matter? Spies can completely counter it. They just pick it up, and hide it in the dark, or behind a box. That whole process would take only seconds. Do you think that because the mercs are able to find their old backpack it would convince them to take it and make the backpack overpowered? Umm, no. It wouldn't. Especially considering the fact that spies can hide them super easily, they can only refill when they are empty, and it takes them some time to refill from it. Also, if only one person per team takes the backpack, that would only mean there would be 3 backpacks out there only if the merc lost all of his lives.
Oh yeah, 3 backpacks that are possibly empty, probably hidden, and take some time to refill off of is totally going to make backpacks the best gadget ever. ::)
Quote from: MulleDK13 on January 02, 2008, 04:21:18 AM
LOL... Imagine somebody wants to play for fun, so they use these settings
Time: Inf.
Merc Lifes: Inf.
Spy Lifes: Inf.
Now imaging 1 hour of gameplay with 2 deaths per minute -.-
LOL... 120 bodies lying around!
Then, you could pile up the bodies, and blow them up with mines and frags. ;D
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 02, 2008, 04:37:43 AM
I've also seen people say stuff about bodies blocking vent shafts and so forth.
This is why I said it would be a good idea if spys disapeard, cause if u get frag in a vent ur body wont be there. Also I believe most of what papa skull has been saying was related to mercs only and not spies.
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 02, 2008, 04:37:43 AM
They just pick it up, and hide it in the dark, or behind a box.
OR in a box :) or even a vent or spawn.
Also would the BP be dropped if a spy was carrying it and died, or would it just disapear with the spy's body?
In a box? Like a container maybe yeah lol... I think all bodies should stay, spy and merc. Although the crysis thing sounds cool for spies also. The bodies wouldn't block, but if you walk over them they will roll because of the rag doll effects.
If the spy was carrying it when he died then the backpack would fall off of him. Or it would stay on the spy and the merc could refill while it is still on the spy's back.
The reason I think all bodies should stay, along with a little pool of blood around them, is because it adds creepiness. There would be nothing scarier, imo, to walk into a dark room as a merc and stumbling on your teammate's dead body in a pool of blood.
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 02, 2008, 04:37:43 AM
And you STILL DON'T get my fucking point man, there WON'T BE even close to 32 bodies. Fewer than 8 bodies (spread across the map) wouldn't create that warlike atmosphere that war games try to create! With FEWER bodies it would in fact create a more creepy feeling. So you bringing up a war game with tons of players is completely out of the question buddy. With a few deaths it would be a lot different, A LOT. You had no point. So with bodies remaining, not 32 of them ffs, it would create a better atmosphere. And yes, lighting, blood and gore, and sound effects can help achieve this. But nothing would come close to coming across a dead merc's body in a pool of blood when you know a spy is around - and vice versa.
Hahaha oh man. The reason I state "32-player FPS" is because I find that an optimal time to have bodies lieing around. You can take 10, 15, 20, 25, etc -- it doesn't matter. Having bodies lieing around,
in this game, is stupid. Period. You still didn't understand my original argument, and you're now obsessed with the idea that I think "bodies lieing around = war-like atmosphere." This is just funny now, all your responses are way out in left field. :D
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 02, 2008, 07:18:01 AM
The reason I think all bodies should stay, along with a little pool of blood around them, is because it adds creepiness. There would be nothing scarier, imo, to walk into a dark room as a merc and stumbling on your teammate's dead body in a pool of blood.
Honestly this isn't going to be all that scary, as you already knew your partner died, so it's not even a big deal. If you want to scare people you're better off having pitch black rooms where the only thing you can use to navigate is your flashlight.
Or you could add hallucination gas traps. You know so that a hallucinating merc ends up seeing fake spies out of the corner of his eye. That'd always be fun.
But dead bodies... not too scary. The scary part of this game is not seeing what the spy did to your partner but rather not knowing where the spy is or when he may strike.
Quote from: Vega on January 02, 2008, 08:50:59 AM
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 02, 2008, 04:37:43 AM
And you STILL DON'T get my fucking point man, there WON'T BE even close to 32 bodies. Fewer than 8 bodies (spread across the map) wouldn't create that warlike atmosphere that war games try to create! With FEWER bodies it would in fact create a more creepy feeling. So you bringing up a war game with tons of players is completely out of the question buddy. With a few deaths it would be a lot different, A LOT. You had no point. So with bodies remaining, not 32 of them ffs, it would create a better atmosphere. And yes, lighting, blood and gore, and sound effects can help achieve this. But nothing would come close to coming across a dead merc's body in a pool of blood when you know a spy is around - and vice versa.
Hahaha oh man. The reason I state "32-player FPS" is because I find that an optimal time to have bodies lieing around. You can take 10, 15, 20, 25, etc -- it doesn't matter. Having bodies lieing around, in this game, is stupid. Period. You still didn't understand my original argument, and you're now obsessed with the idea that I think "bodies lieing around = war-like atmosphere." This is just funny now, all your responses are way out in left field. :D
How would less than 8 bodies scattered around the map be so stupid and just soooo not for this game? You are full of shit! Completely full of shit. IT DOES matter how many bodies there are in the map ffs. If there are 30 bodies littered on the floor of pirate's room it's going to create that warlike atmosphere, NO SHIT man. If there is one body with a pool of blood around it, it wouldn't give a war like feel. It's going to give that "oh shit, I better be careful or the merc is going to do that to me" feel.
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on January 02, 2008, 09:27:43 AM
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 02, 2008, 07:18:01 AM
The reason I think all bodies should stay, along with a little pool of blood around them, is because it adds creepiness. There would be nothing scarier, imo, to walk into a dark room as a merc and stumbling on your teammate's dead body in a pool of blood.
Honestly this isn't going to be all that scary, as you already knew your partner died, so it's not even a big deal. If you want to scare people you're better off having pitch black rooms where the only thing you can use to navigate is your flashlight.
Or you could add hallucination gas traps. You know so that a hallucinating merc ends up seeing fake spies out of the corner of his eye. That'd always be fun.
But dead bodies... not too scary. The scary part of this game is not seeing what the spy did to your partner but rather not knowing where the spy is or when he may strike.
Yeah, I know that the lighting is the main part of the creepiness. But imagine seeing your teammate's dead body in a pool of blood in a dim flickering light. That is going to make it a little more creepy. Seeing just a dim flickering light is creepy, but with a dead body with blood around him in the dim light is going to add to the effect pretty drastically.
Something that it can achieve is that feeling that you know a spy is around and you are reminded of that by your teammate's mangled body by your feet. Given, you know that a spy killed him because of the message that pops up, but actually seeing the death and the head twisted around his body would make you a little more hesitant to go into that area. Right?
Dude. I'm 100% not going to take excess time to stack a pile of bodies somewhere. Especially if it was my "old body". While it could be used as a diversion tactic, its just a waste of time. The body shouldn't be there regardless.
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 02, 2008, 04:37:43 AM
they can only refill when they are empty,
That doesn't make any sense.
...and it gets better:
QuoteOh yeah, 3 backpacks that are possibly empty, probably hidden,
How can it be a concern if it is empty even though you have used it, fully? You said it only becomes refill-able if it's been used, and now you state the mercs wouldn't know whether it's empty. Ok, so when the backpack is full, it's not refill-able? That makes even less sense to me.
Look that's me over there! but dead...
AND LOOK THERE I AM AGAIN...What a sexy position I died at...
Quote from: Gui Brazil on January 02, 2008, 03:08:08 PM
Look that's me over there! but dead...
AND LOOK THERE I AM AGAIN...What a sexy position I died at...
OR
"WTF, WHO ARE ALL THESE GUYS ?!?!"
it would feel like a parody to me XD
on the one side, we want ragdoll, on the other side, we don't want bodies to block vents etc. that's just bs.
i'd say we go for the vaporization for the spies and invent/find something different convenient for the mercs.
How about doing that thing from Die Hard, when he wrote something on the body and sent it down in the elevator?
Quote from: Westfall-US on January 02, 2008, 10:37:10 AM
Dude. I'm 100% not going to take excess time to stack a pile of bodies somewhere. Especially if it was my "old body". While it could be used as a diversion tactic, its just a waste of time. The body shouldn't be there regardless.
Never said that. I only said you could move backpacks. BUT bodies would still move when you walk over them or if there is an explosion close to it.
Quote from: Kurbutti on January 02, 2008, 11:51:31 AM
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 02, 2008, 04:37:43 AM
they can only refill when they are empty,
That doesn't make any sense.
...and it gets better:
QuoteOh yeah, 3 backpacks that are possibly empty, probably hidden,
How can it be a concern if it is empty even though you have used it, fully? You said it only becomes refill-able if it's been used, and now you state the mercs wouldn't know whether it's empty. Ok, so when the backpack is full, it's not refill-able? That makes even less sense to me.
NO. JUST NO. You didn't understand it at all. THEY CAN ONLY refill when their gadgets are empty, not when the backpack is empty ;)
In that example I was talking about one mercenary losing all of his lives. The teammate wouldn't know they are empty. The rest of your post is bs because you didn't understan what I wrote.
Quote from: Gui Brazil on January 02, 2008, 03:08:08 PM
Look that's me over there! but dead...
AND LOOK THERE I AM AGAIN...What a sexy position I died at...
Yeah, but wouldn't your partner's mutilated body with blood all around him remind you that you should be more careful? Probably your own body would remind you not to do anything stupid.
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 02, 2008, 07:59:55 PM
Yeah, but wouldn't your partner's mutilated body with blood all around him remind you that you should be more careful? Probably your own body would remind you not to do anything stupid.
This is just wonderful. This should be in the manual if we end up with persistent bodies. ;D
The point is, seeing dead bodies, and some blood, makes the game a little more creepy. Especially if there is some creepy lighting to go with it. Creepy is good for this kind of game, you can't argue with that.
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 02, 2008, 09:38:11 PM
The point is, seeing dead bodies, and some blood, makes the game a little more creepy. Especially if there is some creepy lighting to go with it. Creepy is good for this kind of game, you can't argue with that.
Creepy ? Why dont we give a merc an ability to rend skull with spine and them put them onto "keep out" spears ? or how about using the skull as a hat ? That would be damn creepy. We could also use finishers style from Dawn of War...
Seriously. Despite all these balance arguments that people gave above, this idea also destroys the feel that you are alone, youre on your uber secret mission that only you and your partner can accomplish.
Instead of this we would have rambo style.
Imagine briefing before mission:
"OK GUYS, MANY OF YOU CAN DIE BUT WE'RE SENDING 15 GUYS THERE, SO DON'T CARE ABOUT DEAD COMPANIONS, JUST RAID THESE BITCHES."
Quote from: Gui Brazil on January 02, 2008, 03:08:08 PM
Look that's me over there! but dead...
AND LOOK THERE I AM AGAIN...What a sexy position I died at...
Yeah, but wouldn't your partner's mutilated body with blood all around him remind you that you should be more careful? Probably your own body would remind you not to do anything stupid.
[/quote]
Dying should remind you of the stupidity you just did, not seeing your body 15 minutes after. I just see no point on leaving the dead bodies there for more than 10 seconds or until you respawn.
Quote from: neth on January 02, 2008, 10:18:01 PM
Imagine briefing before mission:
"OK GUYS, MANY OF YOU CAN DIE BUT WE'RE SENDING 15 GUYS THERE, SO DON'T CARE ABOUT DEAD COMPANIONS, JUST RAID THESE BITCHES."
That's why I think the bodies shouldn't stay.
This is your response to me;
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 02, 2008, 10:07:39 AM
How would less than 8 bodies scattered around the map be so stupid and just soooo not for this game? You are full of shit! Completely full of shit.
Hahaha Papa, ok, I'll quote multiple reasons from various users on this forum:
Quote from: Gui Brazil on January 02, 2008, 03:08:08 PM
Look that's me over there! but dead...
AND LOOK THERE I AM AGAIN...What a sexy position I died at...
Quote from: neth on January 02, 2008, 03:38:29 PM
OR
"WTF, WHO ARE ALL THESE GUYS ?!?!"
I love this next quote;
Quote from: neth on January 02, 2008, 10:18:01 PM
Seriously. Despite all these balance arguments that people gave above, this idea also destroys the feel that you are alone, youre on your uber secret mission that only you and your partner can accomplish.
Instead of this we would have rambo style.
Imagine briefing before mission:
"OK GUYS, MANY OF YOU CAN DIE BUT WE'RE SENDING 15 GUYS THERE, SO DON'T CARE ABOUT DEAD COMPANIONS, JUST RAID THESE BITCHES."
Here's more:
Quote from: mentalmars on December 30, 2007, 02:48:37 PM
i also find it kinda strange that you can see a spy walk away with your old body.
or is the merc some kind of matrix agent, use the body of the host and when you are done or die just leave it to reclaim another body.
Quote from: neth on December 31, 2007, 12:15:57 PM
I would also add that it destroys the stealth feel of the game. "wow, many people here"
Hey, here's one from a developer of the game, this isn't good enough for big, stubborn Papa Skull:
Quote from: goodkebab on December 31, 2007, 12:26:13 PM
hmm....i strongly agree that leaving bodies would NOT work for this game.
Here's a paraphrased quote from myself:
Quote from: Vega on December 31, 2007, 10:49:17 AM
Not only is it extremely silly but it also hurts gameplay.
It's ridiculous to see your old body. With our small, usually indoor maps, the idea of seeing your self lieing on the ground is just retarded. "Wait, lemme grab some nades off this body that looks very similar to me.
Quote from: Gui Brazil on January 02, 2008, 10:30:27 PM
Dying should remind you of the stupidity you just did, not seeing your body 15 minutes after. I just see no point on leaving the dead bodies there for more than 10 seconds or until you respawn.
Neth essentially pointing out that your stubborn.(Ok, ok, this has nothing to do with the topic I just wanted you to see the light):
Quote from: neth on January 01, 2008, 09:30:17 PM
Papa, reasons why its a bad idea were listed above. They're quite convincing.
Tactically, it's bad;
Quote from: MR.Mic on December 30, 2007, 10:03:41 AM
I foresee teams suiciding at key points in the map as part of a setup strategy to create ammo pickup spots, or suiciding all at one place to have a dead-body equipment stockpile.
Last quote, which is the greatest:
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 02, 2008, 07:59:55 PM
The rest of your post is bs because you didn't understan what I wrote.
Papa...it's the other way around. You don't understand anyone else.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, I gave significant evidence, with quotes back from as early as page 1 and 2, so I hope this helps. If not, I don't know what will. You have already shown in the past that you don't like to be proven wrong -- no matter how many people tell you so. But before I go, please tell me; who's the one that is "full of shit?"
Quote from: Vega on January 02, 2008, 11:52:38 PM
But before I go, please tell me; who's the one that is "full of shit?"
Was this really nessacary? your just egging him on. and your going to start a flame war, not very mature for someone who is trying to prove the same thing. What I mean is "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."
Quote from: FusionSlayer on January 03, 2008, 12:01:10 AM
Quote from: Vega on January 02, 2008, 11:52:38 PM
But before I go, please tell me; who's the one that is "full of shit?"
Was this really nessacary? your just egging him on. and your going to start a flame war, not very mature for someone who is trying to prove the same thing. What I mean is "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."
It's ok to have a pillow fight, though.
LOL I guess :D
How about this instead?
"Ok guys, we are sending you out there. If you die your bodies will just blink and then POOF! They are going to dissapear like magic! Sound fun? Your body is just going to dissapear out of thin air! Then, you are going to teleport back to the spawn!"
Sounds stupid to me.
15 guys? Where? Oh, you mean few bodies that die each match? Like 8 or so? That is not 15. And does all the action happen in one distinct place? NO! ALL the bodies would be scattered across the map. So, you may see a dead body every now and then. Not 15 in one big pile of death. When you see the dead bodies you will be reminded of the battle that took place there. What we have now is an invisible cleaning crew that comes and wipes the fighting zone clean like it never happened, it's dumb.
Imagine the game silent hill. Would it be as creepy without all the blood and gore and dead bodies laying around? No, sure as hell wouldn't. You know? It gives that "Damn, I better be careful, or I could be the next guy dead on the floor"
Let me ask you this. Take a look at this picture. Would it even be half as creepy without the blood? http://gamer.no/bilder/ps2/silent_hill_3/2.jpg (http://gamer.no/bilder/ps2/silent_hill_3/2.jpg)
Not saying that it should be bloody like that, but just some blood and the body would do quite well for adding some creepiness. And the lighting compliments it, or the other way around.
You just can't argue with the fact that blood and bodies produces some creepiness. If it didn't, then why would the makers of silent hill put in so much blood and gore? I know why they did, and that was to add some creepy ass moments. And tell me, what is wrong with creepiness and suspense in a game like splinter cell?
i don't think gore elements create the kind of creepines we want in ps. it's rather the suspense being surprised by a member of the other team and the adrenaline you get from being chased etc
Gore is the cheap way to making something creepy.
you could always have it like crysis. the suits disintegrate when the host is terminated, to avoid the capture of the technology.
(excuse if this has been mentioned before, i really can't be arsed to read through this whole thread of bickering)
The majority of the Dev-team says "No" to the "bodies stay around all the game". [note: yes guys, we made a decision. Yay for us!!]
Ideas like blood are being looked into, just like disintegrating bodies when the character respawns (so dead bodies never stay longer than the respawn timer).
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 03, 2008, 12:23:47 AM
How about this instead?
"Ok guys, we are sending you out there. If you die your bodies will just blink and then POOF! They are going to dissapear like magic! Sound fun? Your body is just going to dissapear out of thin air! Then, you are going to teleport back to the spawn!"
Oh yes because mercs defending an old Orphanage or a Mall is realistic as hell.
"Mr. President, I just found out the greatest spot to hide our new 15 billion dollars missile! An old, rusty, half destroyed orphanage!"
"Good job, Mr. Howard. You're now chief of security."
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 03, 2008, 12:23:47 AMWhen you see the dead bodies you will be reminded of the battle that took place there.
"Wow, that merc owned my ass here. It was such an amazing battle, I should write a book about it..."
already read it...
I just imagine a pile of dead spies in some point where a noob just doesn't realize what they are doing.
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 03, 2008, 12:23:47 AM
How about this instead?
"Ok guys, we are sending you out there. If you die your bodies will just blink and then POOF! They are going to dissapear like magic! Sound fun? Your body is just going to dissapear out of thin air! Then, you are going to teleport back to the spawn!"
Sounds stupid to me.
The idea of "respawning" is a social condition that just about every gamer is used to. It doesn't mean it's right, but what you propose doesn't change it in the slightest. You're making fun of the unrealistic idea of bodies disappearing and then teleporting back to the spawn. Besides the game being unrealistic to begin with, what makes your idea any different than having 3 extra spies sitting around (4 lives total)? Since you don't like the idea of spies going "poof and teleporting back to the spawn," and want the bodies to stick around, the only logical and realistic option is to have 4 individual spies, correct? Think of whatever arrival situation you like such as spies coming in from a helicopter or boat -- but the fact that magically 4 spies arrive at a map, don't appear anywhere until one of them dies, and somehow know instinctively to "appear" right when the other one dies is just as goofy as bodies disappearing and respawning. Does the spy go on the intercom and say "Aw fuck I'm getting bull-charged and only have 1/4 of my life left, SEND THE OTHER SPY QUICK!"
You didn't say this directly and correct me if I'm wrong, but without teleporting and respawning, your idea proposes multiple spies to magically be around. What's even worse is that it's 4 lives per spy; that accounts to 8 spies total. Sounds pretty silly to have the possibility of 8 spies going to do a mission, doesn't it?
Spy A: "Ok guys, you stay here while I go and hack the objective, if I die then you can move out. Don't forget to turn on your invisibile-to-player-until-I-die-gadget, got it?"
Spy B: "Sir?"
Spy A: "Yes Spy B?"
Spy B: "May I go and stroll around the aquarius rooftop and look at the stars?"
Spy A: "Absolutely not, sit down and somehow stay invisible throughout the spawn. If I come back to the spawn for some health and see you walking around, you're going to do some of the homosexual co-op moves I told you about earlier."
Spy C: "Score! I've been trying to get 'B' to do those new moves with me!"
Spy B: "I hate my life."
Spy D: "Guys at least no one depends on you to win the game. The player always yells at me like "LAST LIFE, GREAT" or "WHAT? I DIDN'T TELL YOU TO GRAB THE LEDGE! FUCKING IDIOT, SERIOUSLY MY SPY IS RETARDED" and it really hurts my feelings after a while. I think I'm just going to pull out for a while, you know, like how Merc D did back in CT Alpha? He just got up one day and left -- the mercenaries haven't had a 4th life since then.
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 03, 2008, 12:23:47 AM
How about this instead?
"Ok guys, we are sending you out there. If you die your bodies will just blink and then POOF! They are going to dissapear like magic! Sound fun? Your body is just going to dissapear out of thin air! Then, you are going to teleport back to the spawn!"
Sounds stupid to me.
Want to know a better one?
"Ok guys, we are sending you out there. If and when you die, your soul will be transported to another exact replica of your body. At this point, you should hunt down your dead body, grab the gear, and stash the body somewhere else to fool the mercenary guy. Mercenaries, you can grab the gear and stash your old body into a vent so the spy can't get out. Maybe even grab a rope and set a trap so your dead body falls on the spy when he trips it."
Sounds completely ridiculous compared to the disappearing body.
This thread should die.
The thread winner is Vega.
Vega is still a cuppycake.
But I agree with the disapearing body idea. Respawning is unrealistic, so dissapearing bodies can be unrealistic too. Otherwise it gives the idea that for some reason there have been 4 other spies sitting around doing drugs while they wait for their turn to "play".
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 03, 2008, 12:23:47 AM
Imagine the game silent hill. Would it be as creepy without all the blood and gore and dead bodies laying around? No, sure as hell wouldn't. You know? It gives that "Damn, I better be careful, or I could be the next guy dead on the floor"
I don't think this is actually comparable with your argument. In silent hill, those piles of bodies are there because it's a vital part of the level design, suprisingly due to the game's conceptually "creepy" atmosphere; same can be achieved in PS without having to make the bodies stay at all.
Apparently, someone thinks Project Stealth would be better as a survival horror game.
Either way you look at it, it's going to be unrealistic. In every way. But, I would like some realism-atleast, and I think everyone would. Like a dead body staying where it died. Because, you know, if you die, you can't move - or teleport for that matter. But, I know that it would be unrealistic anyways. But I am choosing the better of the two options.
Kurbutti, it is comparable. Bodies add creepiness, as well as blood and lighting effects/map design. Like the fish tank wouldn't be anywhere near as creepy if you put a floating dead body on the top of it. Talking about the fish tank in Pirates Room lol... Yes, you are right, the bodies do play a part in map design. But is a shitload of blood on the wall for map design? Is a severed limb or a dead body laying on the ground for map design? Nah, that's just to creep you out and build suspense.
It also helps for gameplay, believe it or not. Currently if you walk into a room where your partner just died, you will have no idea where the spy killed him from. Why? Oh, because the cleanup crew mopped up his body just seconds after he died. If you see his body, you aren't going to make the same mistake that merc which was not looking around that certain corner. With staying bodies, you will see exactly where the merc died. Or, believe it or not, you could possibly use the dead bodies as distractions or for traps. You could walk over the body and move it as a spy and make the merc think that the dead merc was killed in a different area. Maybe, depends on how it would be implemented.
Quote from: Westfall-US on January 03, 2008, 10:31:26 AM
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 03, 2008, 12:23:47 AM
How about this instead?
"Ok guys, we are sending you out there. If you die your bodies will just blink and then POOF! They are going to dissapear like magic! Sound fun? Your body is just going to dissapear out of thin air! Then, you are going to teleport back to the spawn!"
Sounds stupid to me.
Sounds completely ridiculous compared to the disappearing body.
Wait, what? No. They are both ridiculous. Especially if someone dies, their bodies decide to magically transport back to the spawn, and they are reborn in 10 seconds. I'd rather have it feel like there are more spies waiting to go in, instead of 2 spies that have the ability to teleport themselves and reincarnate themselves in the same body within 10 seconds and act like nothing happened to them.
And yeah, this thread should die. And fuck it then, if you guys don't want a reminder of your death, creepiness, and MORE realism. And don't say that bodies and gore don't add creepiness, because you know something, IT DOES! You can't argue with that. I'd rather not play a game like CT where it seems like there were no battles on the map within 12 minutes of hunting and killing, that's completely retarded.
Quote from: MR.Mic on January 03, 2008, 08:19:39 PM
Apparently, someone thinks Project Stealth would be better as a survival horror game.
Absolutely not. But it should take some of the aspects from the those types of games to add a more creepy atmosphere. And survival is A LOT of what this game is about anyways. So, what's wrong with that? A dead body reminds you to be much more careful than the dead guy on the floor.
It's like the Predator movies. There is a reason why the people always stumble across the dead bodies that Predator has killed. It is to add suspense and a sense of fright, maybe make the people be more cautious. Is Predator like Silent Hill? Nope.
QuoteBodies add creepiness, as well as blood and lighting effects/map design
Yeah, but what do we need PC* bodies for?
*Player/Playable Character
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 03, 2008, 08:31:37 PM
But, I would like some realism-atleast, and I think everyone would. Like a dead body staying where it died.
More than the majority of people are saying "no" to your idea. Get a clue.
QuoteBut, I know that it would be unrealistic anyways. But I am choosing the better of the two options.
Uhhh what? How is having 8 (count 4 lives per spy) extra spies lieing around in a spawn or magically appearing any better than respawning? I guess in Papa World it sounds better.
QuoteIt also helps for gameplay, believe it or not. Currently if you walk into a room where your partner just died, you will have no idea where the spy killed him from. Why?
This is where your lack of experience shows. Many good teams keep in constant contact. This is excluding chat programs like teamspeak and ventrillo. Mercenaries are on constant patrol, they can't blend in shadows effectively due to their visors, and spies have multiple visions and gadgets to help them reveal a mercenary's location. Get over the idea that becuase your friend died that you then have no clue where the mercenary is.
QuoteIf you see his body, you aren't going to make the same mistake that merc which was not looking around that certain corner.
Are we playing the same game? Honestly, do you know what you're talking about? I guess voice chat is non-existant, right? Neither is nightvision, thermal, spy bullets, heartbeat sensor, or sticky cams. Those don't help you find a mercenary, do they? Oh, I got it, bodies give off a 25-foot creepiness ward so spies stray away. Really, this is the worst argument I've ever heard of.
QuoteYou could walk over the body and move it as a spy and make the merc think that the dead merc was killed in a different area. Maybe, depends on how it would be implemented.
Yup, another horrible argument. Time isn't of the essence when you play SvM, is it? It's people like you that make Xbox CT players look bad. If you played CT on PC, you would get ass raped in a second. If you have time to go and move bodies around, then you're asking for an objective to be hacked, for you to get necked, or for you to get cammed. Add those duties on top of placing mines and patrolling and you've wasted a ton of time. You're one of those kids that asks for 20 min tme limit, don't you?
QuoteI'd rather have it feel like there are more spies waiting to go in, instead of 2 spies that have the ability to teleport themselves and reincarnate themselves in the same body within 10 seconds and act like nothing happened to them.
Hahaha ok, then do a little game called "Let's Pretend."
QuoteIt's like the Predator movies. There is a reason why the people always stumble across the dead bodies that Predator has killed. It is to add suspense and a sense of fright, maybe make the people be more cautious. Is Predator like Silent Hill? Nope.
This game is not like that. Predator is about an alien coming down from earth and causing fear and chaos. Argus PMC doesn't send Predator to keep spies from hacking objectives.
"THAT'S RIGHT FOLKS, HERE AT ARGUS PMC WE JUST GOT A NEW RECRUIT; PREDATOR!!!"
QuoteI'd rather not play a game like CT where it seems like there were no battles on the map within 12 minutes of hunting and killing, that's completely retarded.
DING DING DING! Then why the hell are you here?Once again, you
don't know this game.
Vega is on fire right now.
Papa, let the post die.
i'm acutally quite curious how good the best xbox players' understanding of svm is...
Quote from: Gawain on January 03, 2008, 09:12:56 PM
i'm acutally quite curious how good the best xbox players' understanding of svm is...
I don't really care. He obviously shows he has some knowledge of the game. He is just acting out on a bad idea that doesn't fit the game. The more its shot down, by posters and devs/mods, the more of a chance its getting the boot. We need to let the thread die so its not even an option anymore, because its just getting repetitive and boring.
Stop responding to this thread so it will die.
Does it matter if they are PC bodies? Not really. In a sense it matters how those bodies are placed. But, imo, if the map has good lighting effects it wouldn't really matter how or where they are placed. Unless they died doing the splits or something. :D But if a pool of blood is around the dead body, and there is some good lighting all around the map, it's going to add some creepiness.
Imagine walking into a place that looks safe and clean. Then seeing your partner's old dead body in a pool of blood. It's going to alarm you somewhat, and it's going to make you a little more cautious then you were before you entered the room. It actually does matter if it was a PC's body, because you would know that it can actually happen to you.
Quote from: Vega on January 03, 2008, 08:55:45 PM
More than the majority of people are saying "no" to your idea. Get a clue.
Is the majority saying no to some amount of realism? No, they aren't. My idea would be much more realistic. It would seem more like there are more spies on hold waiting to go in. Rather than 2 spies who have the magical ability to come back to life and teleport 4 times. ::)
Uhhh what? How is having 8 (count 4 lives per spy) extra spies lieing around in a spawn or magically appearing any better than respawning? I guess in Papa World it sounds better.
6 Spies waiting to infiltrate the area just in case the 2 spies don't complete the mission sounds MUCH better than 2 spies who can teleport magicically and come back to life/have multiple lives. I don't know how it wouldn't sound better to anyone else.
This is where your lack of experience shows. Many good teams keep in constant contact. This is excluding chat programs like teamspeak and ventrillo. Mercenaries are on constant patrol, they can't blend in shadows effectively due to their visors, and spies have multiple visions and gadgets to help them reveal a mercenary's location. Get over the idea that becuase your friend died that you then have no clue where the mercenary is.
You read it backwards you fucking idiot. I was talking about the merc knowing where his partner died. Not the other way around. Was it you who was talking about MY comprehension problems? Wow.
QuoteIf you see his body, you aren't going to make the same mistake that merc which was not looking around that certain corner.
Are we playing the same game? Honestly, do you know what you're talking about? I guess voice chat is non-existant, right? Neither is nightvision, thermal, spy bullets, heartbeat sensor, or sticky cams. Those don't help you find a mercenary, do they? Oh, I got it, bodies give off a 25-foot creepiness ward so spies stray away. Really, this is the worst argument I've ever heard of.
I guess you still didn't understand what I was writing. If anything, it would make mercs stay away because it is their partner's dead body. Please, read my post again.
Yup, another horrible argument. Time isn't of the essence when you play SvM, is it? It's people like you that make Xbox CT players look bad. If you played CT on PC, you would get ass raped in a second. If you have time to go and move bodies around, then you're asking for an objective to be hacked, for you to get necked, or for you to get cammed. Add those duties on top of placing mines and patrolling and you've wasted a ton of time. You're one of those kids that asks for 20 min tme limit, don't you?
No. Just walking over a body would move it. So moving it into a room with a vent would make the merc wonder if you went up the vent, which you didn't. This could possibly buy you more time. Again, I said that it would depend on how it could be implemented.
QuoteI'd rather have it feel like there are more spies waiting to go in, instead of 2 spies that have the ability to teleport themselves and reincarnate themselves in the same body within 10 seconds and act like nothing happened to them.
Hahaha ok, then do a little game called "Let's Pretend."
QuoteIt's like the Predator movies. There is a reason why the people always stumble across the dead bodies that Predator has killed. It is to add suspense and a sense of fright, maybe make the people be more cautious. Is Predator like Silent Hill? Nope.
This game is not like that. Predator is about an alien coming down from earth and causing fear and chaos. Argus PMC doesn't send Predator to keep spies from hacking objectives.
"THAT'S RIGHT FOLKS, HERE AT ARGUS PMC WE JUST GOT A NEW RECRUIT; PREDATOR!!!"
Now you are just being a fucking idiot. Obviously I wasn't saying ANYTHING AT ALL ABOUT Predator being on Argus, or Argus being like predator. Never did I say that. I was saying that because people stumble upon dead bodies in thriller movies it creates FRIGHT AND SUSPENSE. Are you a fucking idiot or what man? It could be anything! Any movie! Any movie that tries to create suspense, like the halloween movies. People come across dead bodies ALL THE TIME! And what does it do? IT CREATES SUSPENSE and makes the people be much more cautious and creeped out. Notice I didn't say anything about Mike Myers, isn't that funny? ::)
QuoteI'd rather not play a game like CT where it seems like there were no battles on the map within 12 minutes of hunting and killing, that's completely retarded.
DING DING DING! Then why the hell are you here?
Once again, you don't know this game.
This game has a LOT of hunting and killing. Why the hell are we able to look at the area where a fight just erupted between all the players, where 2 or 3 people just died (brutally), and not be able to tell that anything happened? Why? It's just stupid that all the evidence just has to dissapear. I'm not saying I don't like CT because of that, I'm just saying that I don't like that about CT.
WOW! What a monster of a post! Damn.
MO-MO-MO-MONSTER POST!!!!
damn, i agree on making PS WAY MORE CREEPY, but in very subtle ways, so that the player doesn't really know what is scaring him, like, he keeps noticing scary/ brutal things, and there is one place that is awfully clean, there is nothing else than walls and simple objects around.
The thing i want to say, is that PS should give the same kind of creeps 'silent hill', fear(at the silent and slow moments) and resident evil gave.
Quote from: Gawain on January 03, 2008, 09:12:56 PM
i'm acutally quite curious how good the best xbox players' understanding of svm is...
They know what they're doing. They're basically up there with PC players, it's just that the xbox game just doesn't look as impressive because the controls are slower.
You still see quick cam experts, aggro teams, stealth teams and runaround-hack tactics.
Actually I'd say straight up aggro is a bit less popular than it is on PC, at least for story games. Though you often see the one aggro spy + one hacking spy tactic to delay the merc while you hack something. In the times I've played over the past 6 months, I only encountered a single straight aggro team that was any good. Most of the time people just use distraction aggro.
As far as tactics go, it's not remarkably different. I've seen good mercs whoring camnet and people using creative mine placements. So by and large, I don't believe xbox tactics are any weaker.
Major differences in xbox play:
-You see about a 50/50 mix between rifle and uzi among good players, as snap shot sniping is pretty nonexistent. You'll still see some sniper tactics like sniping machine room on factory or sitting out in the garden covering both garden objectives on clubhouse. But by and large rifle is somewhat less popular. In fact, I feel that the rifle/uzi balance is quite well done on xbox, better so than PC. Shotty is still untouched.
-Triple nading is much rarer, because it's somewhat slower.
-There is less MT whoring. (I'm still a hardcore MT whore, but others don't really do it).
-EMF ghosting is virtually nonexistent.
-Switching to gas mask takes a little more time, so quick cams are probably even deadlier.
-no EAX makes stealth a bit easier, but makes it virtually impossible to dodge launched grenades on some maps, Like steel squat. You literally have to guess when the merc is going to nade you if the shutters are open.
The main thing with xbox play that seems to make people think their players suck is that it has a lot more newbies. A lot of people pick up the game for $5 in a bargain bin and just start playing it. So like even last week, I was able to find one guy who was literally playing SvM for the first time. Now, it's not that I haven't run into people like that on PC, it's just a lot more rare, because the PC community is smaller. So xbox has a lot more newbies. And some of those newbies are annoying 13 year olds who you want to strangle, because the damn idiots can't even follow simple orders like "sit in greek and shoot spies. DO NOT LEAVE." I know they can hear and understand me, they're just too stupid to follow basic directions and then next I know, I catch them wandering around the long corridor towards the blue room and pirates. I hate those fuckers.
But seriously, not all xbox players are that bad.
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 03, 2008, 09:22:44 PM
Is the majority saying no to some amount of realism? No, they aren't. My idea would be much more realistic. It would seem more like there are more spies on hold waiting to go in. Rather than 2 spies who have the magical ability to come back to life and teleport 4 times. ::)
Haha your idea is anything but realistic. Even if we use your ridiculous idea of having
6 other modeled spies sitting in the spawn, why would they sit back and enjoy the show? It's funny, you say you're creating "realism" but I find the idea of having 6 other spies, sitting still like mannequins and only springing to action when another one dies to be, well, slightly ridiculous. You can even take out the 6 modeled spies and have them skateboard in doing a kickflip (WARNING THIS IS SARCASM, DON'T TAKE THE SKATEBOARD SERIOUSLY), it doesn't change the fact that another spy suddenly appears. So you have either 6 modeled spies sitting in the spawn looking like idiots, or you have another one enter. The first option is ridiculous and not realistic at all. The second option
is respawning. I can imagine your response to 6 spies standing around to be something like "NO! They won't be standing around! They'll be practicing their flips and stuff."
Quote6 Spies waiting to infiltrate the area just in case the 2 spies don't complete the mission sounds MUCH better than 2 spies who can teleport magicically and come back to life/have multiple lives. I don't know how it wouldn't sound better to anyone else.
It's goofy, that's why. You speak about realism constantly but don't find the idea of spies "taking turns" to be unrealistic.
"Hey Spy B! It's your turn! Go, go, go!"
"Don't worry recently killed Spy A, I'll show those mercenaries who's boss!"
QuoteYou read it backwards you fucking idiot. I was talking about the merc knowing where his partner died. Not the other way around. Was it you who was talking about MY comprehension problems? Wow.
Yup, I read it wrong. I can admit it, something you never can. What's better though is that you make the spy to be the hunter and the mercenary to be the prey. You don't know where the mercenary was killed from? Yeah, a body is going to give you an exact location; that location being in a room, big deal. "He was killed in greek next to the objective, I better stay away from there and leave the objective open for hacking." Again, it's called voice chat and constant communication. Mercenaries have visions, innate abilties, and gadgets to find spies. It works both ways.
QuoteI guess you still didn't understand what I was writing. If anything, it would make mercs stay away because it is their partner's dead body. Please, read my post again.
Really? So is the spy the cat and the mercenary the mouse? Other way around retard. Spies don't create "stay away from here" boundaries, mercenaries do. Want examples? Mines (all 3), Spy traps (both versions), and frags. The only thing spies have for "stay away from here" is cams, which can be nullified by gas mask. So, was I reading that incorrectly, or were you just giving another example of your inexperience?
QuoteNo. Just walking over a body would move it. So moving it into a room with a vent would make the merc wonder if you went up the vent, which you didn't. This could possibly buy you more time. Again, I said that it would depend on how it could be implemented.
Wait, so physically walking over a body would move the body magically? You don't have to pick it up or anything? Sounds like that respawning magic silliness, and you can't have any of that, right? So you don't like bodies disappearing and respawning but like the idea that mercenaries have telekinetic powers. Way to contradict yourself.
QuoteNow you are just being a fucking idiot. Obviously I wasn't saying ANYTHING AT ALL ABOUT Predator being on Argus, or Argus being like predator. Never did I say that. I was saying that because people stumble upon dead bodies in thriller movies it creates FRIGHT AND SUSPENSE. Are you a fucking idiot or what man? It could be anything! Any movie! Any movie that tries to create suspense, like the halloween movies. People come across dead bodies ALL THE TIME! And what does it do? IT CREATES SUSPENSE and makes the people be much more cautious and creeped out. Notice I didn't say anything about Mike Myers, isn't that funny? ::)
Hahaha again, sarcasm rockets over your head.
QuoteThis game has a LOT of hunting and killing. Why the hell are we able to look at the area where a fight just erupted between all the players, where 2 or 3 people just died (brutally), and not be able to tell that anything happened? Why? It's just stupid that all the evidence just has to dissapear. I'm not saying I don't like CT because of that, I'm just saying that I don't like that about CT.
Of course it has hunting and killing, but as mentioned MANY times before, having bodies lieing around is just stupid. I've quoted multiple people who think the same, I'm not going to do it again. Turning this game into a bloody, gory, body-filled experience is
not what CT is about. A "battle" isn't supposed to ensue, the spies have non-lethal weapons and have objectives to do. You want to turn PS into a mini-deathmatch game with its gory effects and non-essential and completely worthless "creepy" atmosphere. You bring Silent Hill into the picture, which is a horrible example. That game is MADE to be a survival horror, a
horror. PS is a stealth action multiplayer game. You simply want to change it into something else.
Quote from: Vega on January 03, 2008, 10:23:59 PM
It's funny, you say you're creating "realism" but I find the idea of having 6 other spies, sitting still like mannequins and only springing to action when another one dies to be, well, slightly ridiculous.
omg, its shift work, k ?
-
Chill out ppl, this topic is taking us nowhere, cause devs's already said that bodies wont be in game. period.
Besides, insulting gives you nothing and there is too much pain and suffering on this planet. None of you is better, we r all just a players, remember ?
tho i admit its entertaining
Yes it is pretty entertaining.
Quote from: neth on January 03, 2008, 10:39:53 PM
Besides, insulting gives you nothing and there is too much pain and suffering on this planet. None of you is better, we r all just a players, remember ?
Hahaha. You're right neth, there are no best teams or a players, we are all just a players.
Yeah, we're all eagerly awaiting your next topic, Papa. ;)
Quote from: Vega on January 03, 2008, 11:13:11 PM
Quote from: neth on January 03, 2008, 10:39:53 PM
Besides, insulting gives you nothing and there is too much pain and suffering on this planet. None of you is better, we r all just a players, remember ?
Hahaha. You're right neth, there are no best teams or a players, we are all just a players.
Haha .. gotta laugh everytime someone quotes it. :D
is there a video of good a gg on xbox? (i know it's not as easy to record as on pc)
Quote from: Kurbutti on January 03, 2008, 11:28:14 PM
Yeah, we're all eagerly awaiting your next topic, Papa. ;)
Probably because I am one of the few who are actually proposing new additions. Personally, I'd rather have a better version of CT, with new stuff to do. New ideas keep the conversations interesting actually. But since, for some reason, everyone seems to believe that it will ruin everything the game stands for and bla bla forget it. No one has gotten into a flame war in my Map Design/Features or whatever it is called thread.
And I'll admit, I've read a post or two or your's wrong Vega, I am willing to bet everyone has read posts wrong.
I'm going to bring up Alien Vs Predator again, strangely enough. You know how the Predators were sent in to do the mission right? And if the Predators failed, the predators that were on standby in the ship, would just go in and complete the mission. Maybe spies could be like that too. Like there is a truck that they jump out of when they spawn. It's more realistic and believable than just 2 spies who somehow find a way to come back to life and teleport themselves.
QuoteIt's goofy, that's why. You speak about realism constantly but don't find the idea of spies "taking turns" to be unrealistic.
"Hey Spy B! It's your turn! Go, go, go!"
"Don't worry recently killed Spy A, I'll show those mercenaries who's boss!"
No, this isn't realistic. Haven't you ever heard of backup? A plan B? Second String? The two options aren't even comparable! I'm not even someone who completely cares about realism. But I'd like dead bodies to stay where they are and not blink then dissapear like a damn 1990's game. And if that means it leads to having something realistic, which isn't bad, then fine.
Stop trying to make the "Plan B" idea work. Simply put both are unrealistic and SvM is neither horror based or combat based so just drop the idea. THe original way is just fine and dandy.
New ideas are encouraged. We even got some good ones under consideration. However, the Dev-team has decided that bodies are not going to stay, unless [some special things still being discussed, but I doubt it'll make it]. So just take that as an official "No".
I keep this thread open, but this is our final answer.
It's MUCH more realistic and believable. Although it is a little unrealistic, it is still MUCH more plausable. Who said horror based? I say that there should be a little bit of blood and some leftover bodies and it turns into a horror based game? No, didn't say that. And it already has a lot to do with combat and survival. I'm only suggesting bodies to stay in the game to add some amount of creepiness.
This game needs to be a little more intense. Map design and lighting should take care of that. But it also needs to be a little more serious, let the blood stay atleast.
And I understand the bodies won't stay. But ffs, please don't make the bodies blink before they dissapear. It just looks so cheesy to me. Like a game that was made in 1995. It's good to know that you've got some new ideas the devs are thinking about. I just hope it's not a shiny version of CT.
papa, what you seem not to get is that it's very unlikley for you with your very limited idea of svm to come up with good ideas. you totally lack understanding for the depth of svm so you want to add something new. it's like playing chess with your 10yo sister and just because it get's boring after a little while you decide to change the rules, add a new pawn,...
You also seem to want to drasticallty change PS from what CT was. Many people it should be nothing more then a Shiny CT SvM with some bug fixes, balances and minor changes.
Quote from: psyichic on January 04, 2008, 12:45:09 AM
Many people it should be nothing more then a Shiny CT SvM with some bug fixes, balances and minor changes.
That's exactly what we are shooting for, for the initial release, once we get to that point we might try to expand it. But first we have to get there.
Quote from: Gawain on January 04, 2008, 12:39:17 AM
papa, what you seem not to get is that it's very unlikley for you with your very limited idea of svm to come up with good ideas. you totally lack understanding for the depth of svm so you want to add something new. it's like playing chess with your 10yo sister and just because it get's boring after a little while you decide to change the rules, add a new pawn,...
Why not? If it keeps Chess fresh, but it's still balanced, then why the hell not?
I think of CT as a nice old car. It's not completely broken down, but it could use some refreshment and a few new features. Like a MP3 player, a sun roof, new wheels, and a fixed up engine. It's still basically the same car, but it's got some new stuff to keep it nice for an even longer time than the old car had.
That's fine if it's just a chrome finished CT. That's totally awesome and I'd still play it and probably love it. But don't you want to make it as good as it can be? By adding more features and depth that are still balanced and make the gameplay much more varied it could be just freaking awesome. I have faith in your level designers to make some great maps with great atmospheres, but I think that some blood and dead bodies coupled with eerie lighting could make some freaking intense maps.
Quote from: psyichic on January 04, 2008, 12:45:09 AM
You also seem to want to drasticallty change PS from what CT was. Many people it should be nothing more then a Shiny CT SvM with some bug fixes, balances and minor changes.
Drastically? Do you think that letting bodies stay in place for the whole game is going to drastically change the gameplay? It wouldn't. And that's the thing. Why not? Why not let them stay? Would it make spies unbalanced, or mercs unbalanced? No. It's still the same game. This is a minor change, a minor addition. I just think it would be cool if you could see someone's dead body, in a pool of blood, and it just stays there the whole game, just like a real dead body would.
Quote from: Papa Skull on January 04, 2008, 12:00:27 AM
Maybe spies could be like that too. Like there is a truck that they jump out of when they spawn.
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg221.imageshack.us%2Fimg221%2F7792%2Flinege4.png&hash=54ca8aca46eb8290dc3cb817ef604826fea5f592) (http://imageshack.us)
Heh, well there really is a truck full of spies, who foolishly send their spies in 2 at a time, even though element of surprise has been lost.
Stupid? Yeah. but the game isn't supposed to be realistic.
Lmao! :D Not exactly like that, more like this. ;D
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fxs123.xs.to%2Fxs123%2F08015%2Ftruckspawn.png&hash=a14ae9212617584c4f616658a7556cc7169d2bf1)
lol freakin awesome papa. maybe u can grab some nades from the mercs backpack instead and toss them in front of you!
LOL... Let's make it realistic... Respawners, like in UT3 :D lol.
Brilliant idea! Though maybe I am not imagining it correctly, it seems like a pretty cool idea. Will spies be able to do the same thing? If so, how will the Mercenaries avoid the spies from doing this? Will they hull the bodies on their backs? ^^. Stay kewl.
Quote from: Guggle on January 08, 2008, 06:57:56 AM
Brilliant idea! Though maybe I am not imagining it correctly, it seems like a pretty cool idea. Will spies be able to do the same thing? If so, how will the Mercenaries avoid the spies from doing this? Will they hull the bodies on their backs? ^^. Stay kewl.
Its actually not a good idea for this type of game. I hope you read the entire thread be4 coming here and saying "Stay kewl" to everyone.