In order to help us Devs please discuss the spy stealth weapon in this thread. It's hard to stay on top of ideas when they are not in a thread specifically about the idea we are trying to stay on top of.
Papa and anyone else who had comments on it feel free to copy your posts over here just so it's all in one spot...Thanks
There is a spy stealth weapon? I'm confused? All the gadgets, or a gun, or the glove?
The 'stealth weapon' is in discussion under the Merc Confusion Gadget thread.
So I'm assumign that we're not talking about SS, when we talk bout this stealth gun? Instead of copying comments someone should make up a summary of the features this weapon has and post it here. Just cuz we don't necessarily have to go through all the brainstorming again. And yeah, Iwas kinda of left out from the original discussion, and since we have the thread right here, I'm hoping I won't be left in the dark.
EDIT:
Thanks Binary.
It's basically looks like the gun we have now. Maybe a different looking barrel. Here's what it does:
-It projects a cone of photons and has a range of about 20 feet. The further you are away, the larger the circular end of the cone end becomes. This makes it easier to hit things from further away.
- The cone of photons disables electronic devices silently. Instead of that loud shock or that loud boom you get for shooting a mine with a regular ss.
- It does not fire ss bullets. It's solely for stealth players who shouldn't get into a position that they have to use it anyways. When the gun is fired at mercs their visions are completely disabled for around 5-10 seconds. This leaves you able to move while using camo w/o being seen by any vision. And allows you to be able to flash the merc easily, and escape.
- It is NOT a launcher, except for small things like spy bullets/stickies. Meaning you can't launch nades.
- Maybe hbs should only be possible while using this alternative gun? Maybe equip it with a scanner but it's only activated when you take hbs as a gadget?
- Maybe my sound reticule idea would only be possible while using this alternative gun?
That was my exact post. Whaddya say guys? The ss already benefits aggro a lot, why not give something to stealthier spies so they can benefit more from the main gadget?
I think that is a good idea, but I don't like how I would be forced to choose my play style before the game. There needs to be some kind of way to shock the merc, just in a different way. Just like the uzi and shotgun kill spys, but in different ways.
Maybe, it could have a way to make the mercs screen very staticy for a second or too, emulating the shocker type of experience, just in a different way?
Not sure if that is a good idea, just throwing them around.
Well, did I mention that it scrambles the merc's visions completely for 10 seconds? It still messes with them, just in a different way. They are immune to being scrambled by it for another 10 seconds though. That way it allows you to move without worrying about getting detected by motion or being detected by EMF for using gadgets. Maybe to shock them it would waste half of the battery life? That way you have 2 shots available if you need to ever shock a merc but it comes at a cost.
sorry that i have to bash your idea, but ss > "spy stealth weapon" so hard it's not even funny...
the only thing it can do that a ss can't is disabling electronic devices silently.
you really need ss to flee from a merc chasing you, to bypass bottlenecks, to get away with the disk, to hack the last remaining second, etc. did you ever wonder why the maps in sc:da were such big and there were that many stupid vents directly next to objectives??
i think the spy should be able to taze the merc, but maybe just three shots before the energybalk is empty. so the spies have to plan their way to cover, hack or extracting discs. also it would be hard to play the aggro way, cause you don't have that much energy to taze the mercs ;)
but then there shouldn't be the disabling of the merc's vision, because the merc doesnt have any chance to use his vision and could be flashed or something else. so it would be a big advantage for spies, who want to play aggro
This isn't my suggestion originally, but why can't we just make a gadget that does the same? Then the spies would get an stealthy alternative for getting around security without giving them a tactical disadvantage of not being able to shock. Gawain already gave you excellent examples of possible situations where SS is an invaluable aid to the spy.
My idea of spy glove was better but met ignorance.
Quote from: neth on February 07, 2008, 02:25:50 PM
My idea of spy glove was better but met ignorance.
it's even worse unless you create a total new game mode with new maps for it (which is a good idea imo).
in the current situation i can see 2 worth-to-look-into options:
-create a
new type of objective that allows remote hacking etc (=>virus blabla thread) without needing a gadget or different weapon
-create a
new gadget (=>merc confusion gadget thread)
tbh, i don't think that any of it is necessary as the new possibilities with all the bus fixed, better gadget balance and new maps will create thousands of fun gaming hours, but what the heck.
Shocking the merc is an invaluble asset for spies, you are correct about that Gawain. But you missed my post where I suggested that it would be able to fire 2 ss shots. If the spy has a good aim, he'll be rewarded. The stealth gun fires a cone that gets larger as the target is further away. Meaning that the circular end of the cone is the end that will be projected. It has a range of 20-30 feet. You can hit a merc easily with this device because of the way it fires and you can give him system malfunction by aiming anywhere on his body. ss can't do that. And being able to silently disable electronics IS a very unique function that would be very very useful for stealthier spies.
Please keep all virus upload ideas in the right thread please. No clutter.
Quote from: Papa Skull on February 07, 2008, 02:27:44 AM
- Maybe my sound reticule idea would only be possible while using this alternative gun?
What if the spy could simply stitch a spy bullet up in his ass and act as a live radar?
Quote from: Papa Skull on February 07, 2008, 03:41:27 PM
Shocking the merc is an invaluble asset for spies, you are correct about that Gawain. But you missed my post where I suggested that it would be able to fire 2 ss shots. If the spy has a good aim, he'll be rewarded. The stealth gun fires a cone that gets larger as the target is further away. Meaning that the circular end of the cone is the end that will be projected. It has a range of 20-30 feet. You can hit a merc easily with this device because of the way it fires and you can give him system malfunction by aiming anywhere on his body. ss can't do that. And being able to silently disable electronics IS a very unique function that would be very very useful for stealthier spies.
I think you're giving the SG too much abilities. You said that it's mainly for the spies who are trying to maximize their stealth, meaning, they're not likely to ecounter that much mercs during their work, espeically if they got a mate loaded with SS's and nades covering your hack run. Now that's not the problem alone, it's the nature of the SG in the first place. According to you Papa it should be an alernative to the SS, correct? The thing is, SG has a gadget-like function on top, which in a way gives spies an additional tool to their arsenal.
QuoteBut you missed my post where I suggested that it would be able to fire 2 ss shots.
Given SG has this ability, I'd really find a gadget that can bypass security silently more balanced than the current concept of the SG. It is simply too versatile, cuz we're talking about PC, where aiming at a target at the size of a merc isn't really that hard.
QuoteShocking the merc is an invaluble asset for spies, you are correct about that Gawain.
And by acknowledging this, I don't see any reason why you couldn't agree with the idea of "SG" being a seperate gadget.
If the maps are made to be stealth friendly a tazer isn't going to be 100% needed. It's not like a stealth weapon would be the ideal choice for all maps and don't forget, you have this thing called a team mate.
I really don't think the spies should be given a way to silently disable passive security.
Depends indeed.
It doesn't depend. If spies can get shut down passive defenses without making noise, why even have them there?
Quote from: Spekkio on February 07, 2008, 07:30:19 PM
It doesn't depend. If spies can get shut down passive defenses without making noise, why even have them there?
Because spies are sacrificing the normal SS for it?
Quote from: Spekkio on February 07, 2008, 07:30:19 PM
It doesn't depend.
Wheter or not this gadget is useful depends on how well you will be able to hear the SS, when it's fired. However, that's ultimately up to the engine and the devs.
QuoteIf spies can get shut down passive defenses without making noise, why even have them there?
What if the passive defences around the premiter were randomized? If you don't know where all the cameras are placed, then there will be a greater risk of getting deteced by them. So... that basically has to mean that there are a lot of security, meaning you'd have to make a lot of noise to get past some setups.
QuoteWhat if the passive defences around the premiter were randomized?
No, because what if you get fucked by a particularly difficult random layout? On the flipside, what if you benefit from an exceptionally easy layout? You can't have all the security in the map be random.
QuoteWheter or not this gadget is useful depends on how well you will be able to hear the SS, when it's fired. However, that's ultimately up to the engine and the devs.
I thought it was established that you wouldn't be able to hear the SS from anywhere in the map.
Quote from: Spekkio on February 07, 2008, 09:56:34 PM
I thought it was established that you wouldn't be able to hear the SS from anywhere in the map.
So then there's no need for a gadget.
EDIT: Fixed the fucked up quote.
Quote from: Kurbutti on February 07, 2008, 10:23:50 PM
Quote from: Spekkio on February 07, 2008, 09:56:34 PM
I thought it was established that you wouldn't be able to hear the SS from anywhere in the map.
So then there's no need for a gadget.
exactly. all information the merc gets is "security failure" which could be everywhere on a map with a sufficient amount of passive security.
I think that this idea is one of the better ones, but still partially dumb. Maybe a gadget to disable security remotely, while aiming at it is a good gadget, but not a gun.
Quote from: Spekkio on February 07, 2008, 05:43:45 PM
I really don't think the spies should be given a way to silently disable passive security.
They should be able to if they sacrifice the ss. Why not? They lose their aggro abilities, so give them more stealth abilities.
Quote from: Gawain on February 07, 2008, 11:48:31 PM
Quote from: Kurbutti on February 07, 2008, 10:23:50 PM
Quote from: Spekkio on February 07, 2008, 09:56:34 PM
I thought it was established that you wouldn't be able to hear the SS from anywhere in the map.
So then there's no need for a gadget.
exactly. all information the merc gets is "security failure" which could be everywhere on a map with a sufficient amount of passive security.
No. It can be obvious. If the game starts on Aquarius and you quickly see a security failure it likely means that they are either going for disc or heading through blue room. I realize that this isn't CT and maps will be designed differently but eventually people will start to figure out which security device was disabled. Like CT.
That is the downside to taking ss. You can't silently pass security devices whatsoever. You can go around some of them, but most of them you have to make a noise to get through them. Unless we have the crouch-roll-crouch bs in this game. Only with the SG would you be able to silently disable security devices, but you lose 90% of your aggro capabilities. It's balanced imo.
And it would be easier to hit mercs obviously with a photon cone (A photon cone is what it projects to shoot electric devices), but the photon cone ONLY disrupts the merc's visions. If you want to make the sg able to fire ss bullets, it would only be 1 or two shots that it can fire without becoming overheated for a few seconds until the gun cools down and recharges. This is meant for stealth. It can't fire grenades, and that is a big nerf for aggro if the players use this gun. But it can shoot small devices like I said before - snares, bullets, stickies.
And ion, if it were a gadget you would still be able to have aggro capabilities because you could still take the ss. And being able to attack mercs and silently disable security is way overpowered. It would only work if you handicap aggro by taking this, and that is by having it only as an alternative to the ss.
QuoteThey should be able to if they sacrifice the ss. Why not? They lose their aggro abilities, so give them more stealth abilities.
Because games that go 6 minutes before you even see a spy are exceptionally boring. Most "stealth" players who play like this accomplish nothing in the first 3/4 of the round, then play stupid for the last 1/4 because they run out of time. If that's the type of game you want to play, then good for you. I'll pass.
The mercs have to have some way to locate the spies, and it has to be challenging on some level for spies to infiltrate the map. Passive security, and the noise you make bypassing it, is part of what allows this. Otherwise the game just becomes stupid.
On top of that, spy traps, mines, and camnet serve to "fill in the gaps" of passive security. Without effective passive security, the gaps become holes wider than your mom's vagina, and then the game just becomes stupid.
What? Who said that everyone would automatically go unseen for 6 minutes? Your conclusion stuns me. Once they find the spy he will have very little defenses, so that shouldn't be hard to kill him, unless your killing skills suck as much as you say everyone's search skills are. I doubt you'll play a game where you don't see a spy for 6 minutes unless he totally camps in his spawn, or if you suck, or if the spies you play against are z0mg pr0! stealth players. Static defenses are still effective. It prevents anyone who takes the ss to bypass it silently. It's just not effective against players who take the SG. When you do find the spy, he's probably going to be screwed.
papa, plz stop spamming your monster-posts and learn the game. you don't have to disable any security going through blue room or getting the disc. you don't even know aqua which is an inbalanced noob map anyways -.-
you speak about stealth but obviously have not the slightest idea of how to play stealth. i bet you don't know how to get past the cams in factory corridors...
Quote from: Gawain on February 08, 2008, 02:23:48 PM
papa, plz stop spamming your monster-posts and learn the game. you don't have to disable any security going through blue room or getting the disc. you don't even know aqua which is an inbalanced noob map anyways -.-
you speak about stealth but obviously have not the slightest idea of how to play stealth. i bet you don't know how to get past the cams in factory corridors...
Remember that he has most experience on xbox where you can't dive silently through lasers.
That's not possible on Xbox? wtf ???
Yeah. Thanks Cyntrox. Unlike PC we can't possibly go through lasers w/o making a sound or w/o alerting the mercs. We have to go around. I'm guessing that this little "glitch move" crouch roll crouch will be out of the game right? Because that is just too retarded. What's the point of having them there if you can just crouch roll crouch through them? With my idea it is to keep people who aren't using the SG from passing them silently. People who have the SG will be able to pass through them silently but that comes at a price, most of your aggro capabilities.
Quote from: Gawain on February 08, 2008, 02:23:48 PM
papa, plz stop spamming your monster-posts and learn the game. you don't have to disable any security going through blue room or getting the disc. you don't even know aqua which is an inbalanced noob map anyways -.-
you speak about stealth but obviously have not the slightest idea of how to play stealth. i bet you don't know how to get past the cams in factory corridors...
Makes no sense. I'm posting monster posts so people can understand my idea. Learning the game has absolutely nothing to do with how I present my idea because it's brand new. Obviously you don't have to disable the lasers to get through blue room or disc but if a merc sees that that's happened, he's going to know that the security malfunction is coming from that direction if the game was just starting. Who said I didn't know that? I don't know how to get past the cams on factory? Your conclusion stuns me sir.
And to clear up any possible confusion, you can roll through lasers, but you have to stand up gain some speed and then roll through the lasers. Basically, you can't do it without making any noise like on PC.
And can we assume that crouch roll crouch be out of the game? Because honestly, it is a glitch and it ruins the point of static defenses. My new idea won't.
TBH i haven't seen anyone complaining about crouch-roll-crouch as far. It's a nice thing, especially when you want to go stealthy.
I know people complain about aqua but I still like to play this map. I realise it's imbalanced though.
and btw, where the hell is blue room ???
It's also known as 'Tropical Fish Room'.
maybe the forced crouching phase between two dives should be a little bit longer, but crouch-dive-crouch takes some time to master (can't change the direction and lenght while in the move) and should stay in the game.
papa, the decision to allow bypassing passive security lies upon the map designer, and that's a good thing.
when u hit the roll key while crouching u can go through lasers, its the crouch dive crouch that lets u do this and as you said this is a glitch, you should have to running to dive
QuoteAnd can we assume that crouch roll crouch be out of the game? Because honestly, it is a glitch and it ruins the point of static defenses. My new idea won't.
It's not a glitch, and it by no means ruins static defenses. This is why mercs have mines, spytraps, and camnet. If you think that a spy is going to be diving through lasers, then place a proxy on the other side or thread a spy trap through the middle. Now they have to disable one or the other which makes noise, thus allowing you to locate the spy more easily.
...Spytraps through lasers are VERY avoidable. Especially on aqua.
Quote from: Liqu1D_133 on February 08, 2008, 10:18:59 PM
...Spytraps through lasers are VERY avoidable. Especially on aqua.
Of course they're avoidable, but you can't get around them by just quick-diving through them.
Quote from: FusionSlayer on February 08, 2008, 05:58:24 PM
when u hit the roll key while crouching u can go through lasers, its the crouch dive crouch that lets u do this and as you said this is a glitch, you should have to running to dive
Not on xbox. On PC you are correct.
Quote from: Gawain on February 08, 2008, 05:48:25 PM
maybe the forced crouching phase between two dives should be a little bit longer, but crouch-dive-crouch takes some time to master (can't change the direction and lenght while in the move) and should stay in the game.
papa, the decision to allow bypassing passive security lies upon the map designer, and that's a good thing.
I agree with you in some respect but with crouch roll crouch why bother even putting them there? And btw guys, I'm positive that crouch roll crouch is a glitch. It's not on xbox. If it were a legit move it would be on both versions right? Crouch dive crouch should stay, but changed up a little bit. With crouch roll crouch you can silently bypass any set of lasers, so why have them there? Atleast with the idea for stealth gun it prevent aggro players who take ss from silently getting through them and reward stealth players who take sg by letting them silently get through them. With crouch roll crouch it doesn't matter what equip you take, lasers aren't going to slow you down or point you out. And that's dumb.
papa read my fucking posts. if the map maker doesn't want them to roll through lasers, he can easily adjust the hight of the laser etc...
QuoteAnd btw guys, I'm positive that crouch roll crouch is a glitch. It's not on xbox.
That's a shitty reason to believe something is a glitch. Is HQ MT a glitch because it's not on XBox? How about insta-turning any direction you want via the mouse?
I read your posts dude. It still doesn't say anything about why crouch roll crouch should be in this game. With regular lasers at regular heights you can just go right through them. So why have them there? Why not just make all lasers at high levels then? There is no point to having regular sized lasers with crouch roll crouch in the game.
And spekkio, you can insta turn on xbox. It is a good reason because the maps on xbox are designed almost identical, if not completely identical, to maps on PC. Lasers are at the same height etc... Why wouldn't they give xbox players the ability to silently go through lasers? They didn't GIVE spies the ability to crouch-roll-crouch on PC, they just accidentally let a glitch slide into the game that they never bothered to fix.
Quote from: Papa Skull on February 09, 2008, 12:10:34 AM
accidentally
No. They made it because they hate their customers.
lol, but they gave them a gift. Why would they give them that feature if they hate them lol
So xbox players can call pc gamers cheaters and lame :P
Anyhow, imo UBI's games are ok, but only on consoles, cause their porting dept. just sucks.
QuoteWhy wouldn't they give xbox players the ability to silently go through lasers?
Control limitations. Crouch and roll are the same button on the gamepad; they are different buttons on the keyboard.
Then it's something they overlooked Spekkio. It was not an added feature to the spies arsenal. It's something that slipped in because they didn't test this game a lot, and obviously didn't test a lot on PC. They just didn't put a lot of effort into PC version and just basically put a console version with PC controls for it. That's a mistake on Ubi's part. Why even put lasers there on PC if they intended to have a distinct crouch-roll-crouch feature? It's because it wasn't something they intentionally put in, it just never got taken care of.
Pure speculation on your part, and it still doesn't make the maneuver a glitch.
QuoteWhy even put lasers there on PC if they intended to have a distinct crouch-roll-crouch feature?
1. Because not all lasers can be bypassed in this manner and 2. Because mercs can "plug the gaps" with mines, spy traps, and camnet.
It makes the maneuver something that they didn't intend to have in. Maybe not a glitch, but as I said before, something that they overlooked that could happen because they didn't do extensive testing. Especially with all the possibilities on PC because of the controls.
Btw, what you are saying is pure speculation also. There is no way to know unless we go up to Ubi and ask them. I just think that my speculation makes more sense. Why exactly would they allow different moves on basically the same exact game? It wasn't because of controls. If they intended to have crouch roll crouch in the game then it would be in both versions because the height of lasers are the exact same in both versions. They would have found a way to fit it into xbox controls if it was intended to be in the game. PLUS, like liquid said, this was basically a port from console. 90% of the game is the same except for the controls and glitches. Crouch roll crouch fits in that 10%. Since it is a port I don't see why any new features would be added. It's a port, it's not uniquely made for PC, or anything. I don't think that they would have put a unique move in just for PC to bypass security silently.
And I didn't know it couldn't be peformed anywhere. That is also a reason why it makes it a glitch/bug/unintentional move in the first place. If they intended it to be in the game it would work anywhere. If you mean places that have stairs leading into laser grids then I know what you are talking about. Like the stairs leading into greek from the tunnel, but I have seen it performed there. So, nm.
And that seems like a waste for perfectly good mines and traps imo. It may prevent crouch roll crouchers from rolling through the grids silently but you wouldn't have to plug them if this man
Diving through lasers seems to show how the spy is agile in what he does. He can't make all the attempts, which leads to the mistake yea? And it gives away position.
When Spekkio says it can't be performed everywhere, he could be talking about some stairs in Greek room, for example. You can dive through sometimes, but not always. On polarbase, you can dive through the lasers. In the UMP version you ccan't dive through them if you are on top of the box. The spies were def meant to dive through the lasers. The only times they can't are when they are positioned too close to each other.
As far as mines and traps are concerned, its genius to place them there. The spy either has to die or get tagged when he dives through, or create a security failure which in turn gives away his position. Hes not so stealthy anymore. It deals with whether you as a merc will take the chance of placing 1 of your 3 mines/traps in that location.
Westfall we were discussing crouch rolling crouching through lasers, not just rolling through them. You are right, spies are meant to dive through lasers. Not silently roll through them with no downside to it. When you dive through it on xbox, you will give away your position because it pings the mercs reticule. On PC you get a free ride through them if there was no mine placed between them. To me, that sounds cheap. Silently getting security should atleast come at a price. And that price would be the ss with the stealth gun in the game.
plz drop the ridiculous idea of a stealth gun ::)
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 09, 2008, 08:53:10 AM
When Spekkio says it can't be performed everywhere, he could be talking about some stairs in Greek room, for example. You can dive through sometimes, but not always. On polarbase, you can dive through the lasers. In the UMP version you ccan't dive through them if you are on top of the box. The spies were def meant to dive through the lasers. The only times they can't are when they are positioned too close to each other.
Yep, and that's a good thing. Let the map-designer decide where he want's the spies to be able to dive through and where he doesn't.
Quote from: Papa Skull on February 09, 2008, 11:01:27 AM
On PC you get a free ride through them if there was no mine placed between them.
Which means that there was a hole in the mercs' cover and they did a bad job. Nothing cheap to it.
Quote from: BurningDeath on February 09, 2008, 12:29:37 PM
Yep, and that's a good thing. Let the map-designer decide where he want's the spies to be able to dive through and where he doesn't.
Quote from: BurningDeath on February 09, 2008, 12:31:47 PM
Which means that there was a hole in the mercs' cover and they did a bad job. Nothing cheap to it.
amen. can this discussion stop now? ::)
Quote from: Gawain on February 09, 2008, 12:32:49 PM
Quote from: BurningDeath on February 09, 2008, 12:29:37 PM
Yep, and that's a good thing. Let the map-designer decide where he want's the spies to be able to dive through and where he doesn't.
Quote from: BurningDeath on February 09, 2008, 12:31:47 PM
Which means that there was a hole in the mercs' cover and they did a bad job. Nothing cheap to it.
amen. can this discussion stop now? ::)
its not even on topic.
Quote from: Gawain on February 09, 2008, 12:32:49 PM
Quote from: BurningDeath on February 09, 2008, 12:29:37 PM
Yep, and that's a good thing. Let the map-designer decide where he want's the spies to be able to dive through and where he doesn't.
Quote from: BurningDeath on February 09, 2008, 12:31:47 PM
Which means that there was a hole in the mercs' cover and they did a bad job. Nothing cheap to it.
amen. can this discussion stop now? ::)
no because he is wrong. Mercs shouldn't be forced to guard areas that are meant for guarding. Why should you secure security, makes no sense. Why have them there? Are you going to tell me that it is the mercs fault for not putting a mine or spy trap by every single security grid? If so, that's lame. Why even have lasers underneath the spy spawn on Aqua? The mercs can't possibly beat the spies there and place a mine/trap. And if the spies just roll through them silently with no drawback, why have them there? It's obvious that crouch roll crouch was not intended and the game was not designed to have crouch roll crouch in the game.
Quote from: Papa Skull on February 10, 2008, 03:09:34 AM
Quote from: Gawain on February 09, 2008, 12:32:49 PM
Quote from: BurningDeath on February 09, 2008, 12:29:37 PM
Yep, and that's a good thing. Let the map-designer decide where he want's the spies to be able to dive through and where he doesn't.
Quote from: BurningDeath on February 09, 2008, 12:31:47 PM
Which means that there was a hole in the mercs' cover and they did a bad job. Nothing cheap to it.
amen. can this discussion stop now? ::)
no because he is wrong. Mercs shouldn't be forced to guard areas that are meant for guarding. Why should you secure security, makes no sense. Why have them there? Are you going to tell me that it is the mercs fault for not putting a mine or spy trap by every single security grid? If so, that's lame. Why even have lasers underneath the spy spawn on Aqua? The mercs can't possibly beat the spies there and place a mine/trap. And if the spies just roll through them silently with no drawback, why have them there? It's obvious that crouch roll crouch was not intended and the game was not designed to have crouch roll crouch in the game.
LOL...speak for yourself....I bet you I could meet you head on outside on Aqua. If you trigger the alarm because you made a
mistake in your diving....well, there is your mistake. You hit them. If there is a mine or trap there, then you were a moron to fall into it right? crouch roll crouch doesn't even happen regularly. Its actually quite hard to do, and if you miss.....bam: alarm, poison, trap, or BOOM.
It doesn't necessarily have to be the intention of the developer for you t dive though the lasers or anything of that nature, but if you can do it?????? Well then, it shows you're a little smarter than the rest.
I actually agree with Papa on this one. The disadvantage of running and diving through lasers is that you make noise. If you can do that quietly, that's a bug. It's no different than the vision glitch.
I agree with the above.
with crouch-dive-crouch making noise/pinging the reticule, stealth would become way too slow so that snares become a big boost.
maybe it shouldn't be possible to dive through lasers with this move (=>you have to run at least one step which pings the reticule).
That's what I've been saying. And moving slow can sometimes be a downside to stealth. Of course, you don't have to move slowly to be stealthy, but sometimes it's required to remain hidden. You have to make noise to pass through a laser grid. That's the downside
Quote from: Gawain on February 10, 2008, 10:56:09 PM
with crouch-dive-crouch making noise/pinging the reticule, stealth would become way too slow so that snares become a big boost.
maybe it shouldn't be possible to dive through lasers with this move (=>you have to run at least one step which pings the reticule).
I would be against making snares/chaff mandatory to get around.
The fast dive isn't a glitch. You already have to be moving fast while crouched. It is simply just taking that momentum, standing, and diving. Hell, if Ubi had any sense of coding controls, you'd be able to dive straight from a crouch instead of having to pull a complicated move (and, conversely, be able to roll from a stand instead of always dive). However, I do think that the complication adds to gameplay in this regard, so leave it.
What about the vision glitch when making a hard landing? Either it should stay, or else the landing time should be significantly shorter.
We've discussed that before. We were thinking about adding a feature where a perfectly timed button press would save you from getting shocked from the fall. I for one would like that, as long as it isn't as easy as the vision glitch was.
60-80% of the time it takes in ct to recover from a high fall should be enough. maybe no delay at all if you press/do a roll at just the right moment (hopefully there will be no auto-roll in ps).
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on February 10, 2008, 11:38:01 AM
I actually agree with Papa on this one. The disadvantage of running and diving through lasers is that you make noise. If you can do that quietly, that's a bug. It's no different than the vision glitch.
It's entirely different from the vision glitch. Changing visions has absolutely nothing to do with falling. Period. The Crouch-roll-crouch is a skillful approach to the game, regardless if it was intended to be in the game or not. I think it makes the game more interesting and it requires skill to use, which makes the game more complex but in a desired way. If anything, the Crouch-roll-crouch is far from a "glitch."
There are two ways I see this;1. Crouch-roll-crouch is the player's ability to know how and when to take advantage of the crouching-to-running "silent state." What do I mean by that? When a player moves from crouching to then running,
I believe there is a small gap where there is no sound. For the crouch-roll-crouch, the player goes from crouching, to running, to rolling, and then back to crouching -- all the while in the "silent state." As we all know, rolling produces no sound. The player never leaves the "silent state" of crouching-to-running when he performs the roll, and moves about stealthily and successfully. It's a not a glitch, simply taking advantage of what's in front of you through knowledge and practice.
2. When doing crouch-to-roll, at the point the spy is about to stand up, the player presses the roll key and successfully performs a roll. That is; the spy performs a roll
before he has finished the transition from crouching to standing up. Was this meant to be implemented for the PC (rhetorical, do not answer)? Who knows.
Quote from: Gawain on February 11, 2008, 02:13:23 PM
60-80% of the time it takes in ct to recover from a high fall should be enough. maybe no delay at all if you press/do a roll at just the right moment (hopefully there will be no auto-roll in ps).
EVERYONE STOP COMPARING TO SCCT ITS A NEW ENGINE MEANS THIS SHIT WONT HAPPEN
Quote from: AgentX_003 on February 12, 2008, 05:57:52 AM
Quote from: Gawain on February 11, 2008, 02:13:23 PM
60-80% of the time it takes in ct to recover from a high fall should be enough. maybe no delay at all if you press/do a roll at just the right moment (hopefully there will be no auto-roll in ps).
EVERYONE STOP COMPARING TO SCCT ITS A NEW ENGINE MEANS THIS SHIT WONT HAPPEN
no need for the 14pt font. Really...
Vega, it's basically exploiting the controls to get past things you normally shouldn't without making noise or alerting the mercs. You can do it no matter what gadgets you bring, that's why I suggest making the stealth gun and removing this garbage move.
papa, how about you play the ct pc version now that you have a pc and try to master the crouch-dive-crouch "glitch" against decent players? it's not that easy to really take advantage of, for instance, it would be pretty lethal to do without really good recon+awareness, and the move itself requires some training, too.
Quote from: Vega on February 12, 2008, 05:49:06 AM
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on February 10, 2008, 11:38:01 AM
I actually agree with Papa on this one. The disadvantage of running and diving through lasers is that you make noise. If you can do that quietly, that's a bug. It's no different than the vision glitch.
It's entirely different from the vision glitch. Changing visions has absolutely nothing to do with falling. Period. The Crouch-roll-crouch is a skillful approach to the game, regardless if it was intended to be in the game or not. I think it makes the game more interesting and it requires skill to use, which makes the game more complex but in a desired way. If anything, the Crouch-roll-crouch is far from a "glitch."
There are two ways I see this;
1. Crouch-roll-crouch is the player's ability to know how and when to take advantage of the crouching-to-running "silent state." What do I mean by that? When a player moves from crouching to then running, I believe there is a small gap where there is no sound. For the crouch-roll-crouch, the player goes from crouching, to running, to rolling, and then back to crouching -- all the while in the "silent state." As we all know, rolling produces no sound. The player never leaves the "silent state" of crouching-to-running when he performs the roll, and moves about stealthily and successfully. It's a not a glitch, simply taking advantage of what's in front of you through knowledge and practice.
2. When doing crouch-to-roll, at the point the spy is about to stand up, the player presses the roll key and successfully performs a roll. That is; the spy performs a roll before he has finished the transition from crouching to standing up. Was this meant to be implemented for the PC (rhetorical, do not answer)? Who knows.
Vega is wise.
Quote from: Papa Skull on February 12, 2008, 07:58:52 AM
Vega, it's basically exploiting the controls to get past things you normally shouldn't without making noise or alerting the mercs. You can do it no matter what gadgets you bring, that's why I suggest making the stealth gun and removing this garbage move.
Neither you nor I know that for sure. You can say all you want about the xbox version, but I don't enough about the xbox controller's functionality to make a decent enough approach. So, it doesn't really matter what you say about the xbox version. I read your defense on the idea, I'm simply stating how it is.
Weather or not it is a glitch is irrelevant, the decision to include or exclude it in PS should be based solely on balance reasons.
And I don't think the maneuver is remotely imbalanced. The only people complaining about it are Xbox players, who don't even have it available.
Quote from: Spekkio on February 12, 2008, 04:33:00 PM
And I don't think the maneuver is remotely imbalanced. The only people complaining about it are Xbox players, who don't even have it available.
+1
I am only going off of what I hear. And by what I've heard, it's basically a move that can get you through lasers with no sound/alerting mercs whatsoever. But, now that I know that it is hard to master I'm not so against it. Even if it is balanced, map makers will have to raise the heights of lasers that they don't want them to get through so quietly.
Quote from: Papa Skull on February 12, 2008, 04:57:59 PM
I am only going off of what I hear. And by what I've heard, it's basically a move that can get you through lasers with no sound/alerting mercs whatsoever. But, now that I know that it is hard to master I'm not so against it. Even if it is balanced, map makers will have to raise the heights of lasers that they don't want them to get through so quietly.
Why don't you play the game first instead of opening your mouth about shit when you have no clue about it.
Don't pull a "Fox vs Mass Effect" here :p lolz.
Quote from: AgentX_003 on February 12, 2008, 05:57:52 AM
Quote from: Gawain on February 11, 2008, 02:13:23 PM
60-80% of the time it takes in ct to recover from a high fall should be enough. maybe no delay at all if you press/do a roll at just the right moment (hopefully there will be no auto-roll in ps).
EVERYONE STOP COMPARING TO SCCT ITS A NEW ENGINE MEANS THIS SHIT WONT HAPPEN
I assume you are talking about the 60-80%? That is not a bug, it is a feature. We were discussing how long the down time should be after a fall.
If you are talking about auto-roll, that is also a feature. It is a feature that is not well liked anyway.
Quote from: Vega on February 12, 2008, 05:49:06 AM
It's entirely different from the vision glitch. Changing visions has absolutely nothing to do with falling. Period. The Crouch-roll-crouch is a skillful approach to the game, regardless if it was intended to be in the game or not. I think it makes the game more interesting and it requires skill to use, which makes the game more complex but in a desired way. If anything, the Crouch-roll-crouch is far from a "glitch."
Requiring skill or timing doesn't make something less of a glitch. The tech jump is still a glitch, even if it's somewhat tough to do. It's still not what was intended and lets you do something you're not supposed to be able to do.
Similarly being able to dive through lasers without making sound is probably not something we should allow in the game, regardless of how much perceived skill it might take. I've never really considered skill to be that sort of random timing anyway. That has nothing to do wtih what the merc does, it's just a pointless extra learning curve you're adding to the game to make it harder to pick up. The skill should be in beating the merc, not fighting difficult controls that make it hard to do stuff you want to do.
If we want people to be able to move faster while being silent, then simply make fast crouching faster. Pointlessly difficult controls doesn't make the game any better and most people don't want to waste an hour of their time just trying to master the timing of some crazy move that lets them move faster while being stealthy. Either let them do it or don't let them do it, but don't make it some crazy ordeal. I'm not a better person because I spent an hour perfecting the tech jump. It's an hour of my life that was spent doing something that isn't fun.
you can't compare the crouch-dive-crouch move with a glitch into tech room on a single bad map.
I say keep the crouch-dive-crouch.
QuoteRequiring skill or timing doesn't make something less of a glitch. The tech jump is still a glitch, even if it's somewhat tough to do. It's still not what was intended and lets you do something you're not supposed to be able to do.
Using shitty map geometry to access an area that you shouldn't be able to access does not equate to performing a move that is afforded directly by the controls.
The crouch-dive-crouch move doesn't involve any extraneous factors like changing visions to break a landing or using invisible geometry to reach a new area. It is the normal progression of controls, and it's doable because crouch and roll aren't the same button. Even thinking about it realistically, an athletic person can dive from that kind of a position.
Still, as has been noted, whether or not it's a glitch is largely irrelevent. You think it's a glitch, and I don't. Okay. However, even if it is a glitch, sometimes "glitches" end up being good for gameplay. For example, in Counter-Strike, one of the most popular competitive online game in the world, you can glitch out of the AWM and Scout sniper rifle reload by pressing Q for "last weapon." Doing so allows you to shoot your pistol almost immediately instead of waiting for the animation. You can then go right back to the rifle and shoot without having to wait for the reload animation to complete. Furthermore, when you press "last weapon" while moving, your accuracy resets as if you were stationary, so your first shot will always be on target. Therefore, your reward for the extra finger work is that you have better accuracy and quicker shots. Valve patches CS quite frequently, and this is still part of the game years after its release because this "glitch" turned out to be a good feature of CS gameplay.
Moving to CT, your reward for good timing and extra finger work is being able to move more quickly without pinging the reticle. I don't see anything wrong with that. Moreover, it doesn't take an hour to learn how to do this move unless you have Parkinson's or something. Back up lasers with mines and spy traps, or use camnet, and you won't have a problem.
I do have Parkinson's, so its quite ridiculous how loud my spy is and how many lasers I trip. Oh wait....that's the server.
Quote from: Spekkio on February 12, 2008, 06:05:41 PM
Quote from: Papa Skull on February 12, 2008, 04:57:59 PM
I am only going off of what I hear. And by what I've heard, it's basically a move that can get you through lasers with no sound/alerting mercs whatsoever. But, now that I know that it is hard to master I'm not so against it. Even if it is balanced, map makers will have to raise the heights of lasers that they don't want them to get through so quietly.
Why don't you play the game first instead of opening your mouth about shit when you have no clue about it.
I shouldn't have to. All I've heard about it from YOU guys is that it is basically a move that can get you through any set of lasers silently. That sounds ridiculously stupid to me. NOW that I know that it is harder to master, then it's okay I guess. But if it is in PS, it shouldn't be easy to pull off. If it is, then why even have laser grids?
QuoteI shouldn't have to. All I've heard about it from YOU guys is that it is basically a move that can get you through any set of lasers silently. That sounds ridiculously stupid to me. NOW that I know that it is harder to master, then it's okay I guess. But if it is in PS, it shouldn't be easy to pull off. If it is, then why even have laser grids?
It doesn't matter how much or little you've heard from people who have played the game; you have no clue what you're talking about regarding the balance of this move until you actually play the game for a while. If you log a decent amount of time playing CT on the PC and still think this maneuver is so omfg imba, then ok. Until then, you have no business saying anything about it.
K, think about it spekkio. You have an opinon on the Iraq war right? Well, have you ever experienced it or seen it up close and personal? Probably not. But by going off of what you hear, you have an opinion on it. Just like I have an opinion on something that I've only heard about.
Spekkio is going into the military as far as I know.
You don't know how it works. But, even then, you need to master it, which makes it a viable move.
I respect him going into the military but most people only have opinions of things based off of what they hear about the Iraq war. Based on what I've heard, up until this point, what I heard was that it was an move that could get you through any set of lasers silently with no drawback. Doesn't that sound overpowered to you? And now I know that it is hard to completely master it I'm not so against it.
What do you think about triplenading? You probably can't do it on the Xbox, but we sure can. It requires a tad bit of skill, but I say leave it in. It is one of those things you learn, and once you do your day is slightly better.
You can triple nade on console, atleast on xbox. Of course, it require more skill than on PC and there is much more room for errors because of the fact that you have to press more buttons to pull it off.
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 13, 2008, 03:47:29 AM
What do you think about triplenading? You probably can't do it on the Xbox, but we sure can. It requires a tad bit of skill, but I say leave it in. It is one of those things you learn, and once you do your day is slightly better.
Triple-nading is a timing glitch. It shouldn't have been around either. I actually still can't do it because its really a waste of time. Not for those aggro players I'm sure, but then again....it doesn't really work out in the end. Thanks for tazzing me....then shoting three nades at me: the most important of which was the flash bang that practically has worn off by the time the tazz was done. Good use...no really.
I am fairly certain the amount of time between grenades (or between the 2nd and 3rd) will be increased.
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 13, 2008, 05:04:20 AM
Thanks for tazzing me....then shoting three nades at me: the most important of which was the flash bang that practically has worn off by the time the tazz was done. Good use...no really.
good aggro players will flash you with the last nade, not with the first one. i'm totally ok with triple-nading and spamming nades as it's not that strong and will be even weaker with balanced smoke nades and no ridiculous host-grabs (on the other hand there will be no glitches like jumping etc and flash will work a little more reliably i guess).
There will be no jumping to get out of a grab? That balances the game imo, and while it may look silly, it keeps spies from just running around them wildly. It makes it harder for a grab and that's good, it needs to be challenging but still possible.
Quote from: Gawain on February 13, 2008, 01:40:19 PM
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 13, 2008, 05:04:20 AM
Thanks for tazzing me....then shoting three nades at me: the most important of which was the flash bang that practically has worn off by the time the tazz was done. Good use...no really.
good aggro players will flash you with the last nade, not with the first one. i'm totally ok with triple-nading and spamming nades as it's not that strong and will be even weaker with balanced smoke nades and no ridiculous host-grabs (on the other hand there will be no glitches like jumping etc and flash will work a little more reliably i guess).
I know the flash is the last one. The affects aren't that ridiculous, especially if you don't hit the spy in the head or the feet. By the time the tazz wears off, you can already see again.
my only problem with aggro is that the way most wannabe pros play it now on their laggy servers would never work without lag and without hostadvantage. with no lag you just aim at their head and they're dead after 2 hits which takes <1s. it's the same bullshit with quickcams, as the host of a good server you can activate the mask in time as a reaction for the cam noise in most situations, but on laggy servers you sleep in many situations with activated mask.
with a better net code aggro will probably become way harder to pull off but also way more effective if done by competent teams as you won't need the extra cautionary space in case of lag charges and one can't jump not to get grabbed anymore. the balancing will change dramatically in an even playing field...
Quote from: Papa Skull on February 13, 2008, 01:14:47 AM
K, think about it spekkio. You have an opinon on the Iraq war right? Well, have you ever experienced it or seen it up close and personal? Probably not. But by going off of what you hear, you have an opinion on it. Just like I have an opinion on something that I've only heard about.
What opinions are you talking about specifically?
There is a big difference between me offering an opinion on whether or not we should've gone into Iraq in the first place, and offering an opinion that General so-and-so needs to adopt a new strategy to counter insurgents, especially if the person with whom I'm arguing is a seasoned officer. The former mostly had to do with politics and American foreign policy, which anyone who has researched the situation can comment on. However, I have no business saying anything about the latter because I can't possibly know the military situation without actually being there, no matter how many troops I talk to. For a reference of a group of ignoramuses offering an opinion on a topic of which they have no knowledge, google "code pink." Did you know that the USMC trains grunts to kill babies?
Your opinion on the balance of the crouch-dive-crouch maneuver equates to the latter. It doesn't matter what you heard about the game balance, you won't know until you've played it extensively.
Put another way: would you go visit a game forum for a game that you've never played, read through topics, and then start posting about how something needs to be nerfed/buffed based upon the posts you've read? Of course you could, since it's a free country and all, but you'd be an idiot for doing so. Now I know you've played CT on the Xbox, but this particular mechanic isn't in that version of the game, so the bottom line is that you don't know what it's like to play with and against it.
Quotemy only problem with aggro is that the way most wannabe pros play it now on their laggy servers would never work without lag and without hostadvantage. with no lag you just aim at their head and they're dead after 2 hits which takes <1s. it's the same bullshit with quickcams, as the host of a good server you can activate the mask in time as a reaction for the cam noise in most situations, but on laggy servers you sleep in many situations with activated mask.
When the spy is constantly trying to SS+Cam you, he's probably enjoyed host advantage too much.
QuoteBased on what I've heard, up until this point, what I heard was that it was an move that could get you through any set of lasers silently with no drawback.
You heard wrong, or you misconstrued what you heard. There are some lasers you cannot dive through at all (like the triple lasers in hospital). There are others that will be backed up by spy traps and mines (like the triple lasers in Aquarius). You can't just freely dive through everything without being careful.
Still, my suggestion is that you go play the game now that you have a PC capable of it, and then make your opinion from there.
Quote from: frvge on February 13, 2008, 01:06:51 PM
I am fairly certain the amount of time between grenades (or between the 2nd and 3rd) will be increased.
Eh, I think they should hold off on this to begin with. It MIGHT be overpowered, it might not be.
Quote from: Spekkio on February 13, 2008, 08:40:04 PM
Put another way: would you go visit a game forum for a game that you've never played, read through topics, and then start posting about how something needs to be nerfed/buffed based upon the posts you've read? Of course you could, since it's a free country and all, but you'd be an idiot for doing so. Now I know you've played CT on the Xbox, but this particular mechanic isn't in that version of the game, so the bottom line is that you don't know what it's like to play with and against it.
While it's true we haven't played with this mechanic, we have played without it, and the mechanic itself has no innate balancing factor. It's a spy buff all the way. thus if you think the game is fine without the mechanic, adding the mechanic is bad because it helps one side and doesn't help the other, throwing things out of balance.
It's just basic logic. Just how we know that giving spies lethal weaponry won't improve the gameplay even though we've never actually played against spies with lethal weapons.
If you have a mechanic that affects both sides, the overall effect is difficult to gauge. If the mechanic is entirely one sided, it's not too difficult.
And really, anyone in favor of crouch-roll-crouch should also be in favor of just improving the spies crouch speed. IF you think it's okay and balanced to move faster while not making noise, great ok, then just make it the default and not a chore to execute. Otherwise, it honestly just comes off as pointless pro elitism, where you want to lord over some secret handshake over the newbies.
If you think it's balanced that spies should move faster while still being silent, then go ahead and say that. You might convince me on that. If you want to add secret handshakes to the game that require "mastering controls" just to walk correctly, I say screw that. All this does is give newbies a chance to fail dramatically and screw themselves over because their timing was off by half a second. Lets make this game about tactics and not button mashing just to get from point A to point b without getting heard. That's just an example of horrible controls and bad game design.
Quote from: Gawain on February 13, 2008, 05:39:51 PM
my only problem with aggro is that the way most wannabe pros play it now on their laggy servers would never work without lag and without hostadvantage. with no lag you just aim at their head and they're dead after 2 hits which takes <1s. it's the same bullshit with quickcams, as the host of a good server you can activate the mask in time as a reaction for the cam noise in most situations, but on laggy servers you sleep in many situations with activated mask.
with a better net code aggro will probably become way harder to pull off but also way more effective if done by competent teams as you won't need the extra cautionary space in case of lag charges and one can't jump not to get grabbed anymore. the balancing will change dramatically in an even playing field...
on that note, with less lag/ better net coding i dont think ud wanna stick around in a mercs face throwing smoke and what have you , unless you want a bullet up your ass =/.
Spekkio. I was comparing me having an opinion based on things I hear about the crouch roll crouch and how everyone has an opinion on the iraq war based on what they hear about Iraq. Not trying to get into a conversation about the war, but I was just making a point that people can have opinions based off of things they hear.
There is a problem with that though. You can't go up to someone who was already in the war and tell them how it is. It just doesn't work that way. All of the PC players have been in this so called war, so don't try and change any gameplay based on your xbox view. I think that is what spekkio meant.
Well, if you want to keep speaking metaphorically, there are protestors to the war and they only go off of what they hear. But I get what you are saying, because those protestors are retards for the most part. :D Yeah, I just dissed myself metaphorically, strange. :-X
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on February 14, 2008, 04:17:07 AM
Quote from: Spekkio on February 13, 2008, 08:40:04 PM
Put another way: would you go visit a game forum for a game that you've never played, read through topics, and then start posting about how something needs to be nerfed/buffed based upon the posts you've read? Of course you could, since it's a free country and all, but you'd be an idiot for doing so. Now I know you've played CT on the Xbox, but this particular mechanic isn't in that version of the game, so the bottom line is that you don't know what it's like to play with and against it.
While it's true we haven't played with this mechanic, we have played without it, and the mechanic itself has no innate balancing factor. It's a spy buff all the way. thus if you think the game is fine without the mechanic, adding the mechanic is bad because it helps one side and doesn't help the other, throwing things out of balance.
It's just basic logic.
Your "basic logic" fails to take into account a whole slew of other factors. It's not like the spies can pull this move off and everything else between the two platforms remains constant. But Papa would know this if he played the game first instead of opening his mouth about something he doesn't know about.
Quote from: Papa Skull on February 14, 2008, 05:14:43 AM
Spekkio. I was comparing me having an opinion based on things I hear about the crouch roll crouch and how everyone has an opinion on the iraq war based on what they hear about Iraq. Not trying to get into a conversation about the war, but I was just making a point that people can have opinions based off of things they hear.
I didn't say anything specific about the war or my opinion of it. You should go back and re-read that part.
QuoteAnd really, anyone in favor of crouch-roll-crouch should also be in favor of just improving the spies crouch speed. IF you think it's okay and balanced to move faster while not making noise, great ok, then just make it the default and not a chore to execute. Otherwise, it honestly just comes off as pointless pro elitism, where you want to lord over some secret handshake over the newbies.
It's no "secret handshake." If you think that holding W and pressing C>Q>>>C with that approximate timing is a "chore" in order to move more quickly without pinging the reticle, then I don't know what to tell you. Btw, "silent" is a bit of a misnomer -- mercs can hear rolls quite easily if they are in the vicinity of the spy. Moves that are more advantageous ought to be harder to pull off; that's not elitism, it's common sense.
Quote from: Ion.67 on February 14, 2008, 06:11:22 AM
There is a problem with that though. You can't go up to someone who was already in the war and tell them how it is. It just doesn't work that way. All of the PC players have been in this so called war, so don't try and change any gameplay based on your xbox view. I think that is what spekkio meant.
I feel bad making this comparison, since it trivializes the war, but here goes:
If you equate the War in Iraq to CT on the PC, then the tactics used in Iraq by the U.S. Army are analagous to the tactics used in CT on the PC. Following that, what business would you or I have commenting on the tactics the Army uses in Iraq when we have no military training? Better yet, why would you even open your mouth to argue with someone who's been there? Likewise, what business do you have commenting on the tactics in CT on the PC when you have no experience with it? That's the point I was making. Yea, ok, you have some experience on the Xbox, but the mechanics between the two are very different. That would be like a Air Force officer telling an Army officer what his tactics should be on the ground.
I think the points have been made. Make ideas, not war.
Quote from: frvge on February 14, 2008, 12:01:07 PM
I think the points have been made. Make love, not war.
fixed for valentine's day.
on a serious note: if you think that crouch-dive-crouch is op, go and play using it a lot and you will see that is has a very limited use and isn't op at all. it makes you move in a straight line with fixed length and time that doesn't fit everywhere and makes you an easy target for mercs and well-placed mines if not timed perfectly, the rolling makes way more noise then crouching, you can't use it with camo, etc. it's also quite easy to pull of control-wise, if you're not completely retarded you can learn it in under 5 min.
LOL...NO SPEKKIO...IM TOO LATE....I would've said "don't do it."
Comparing the Iraq war to CT for PC is....well....I'm not finishing the statement. To even bring it up as a comparison was....well....I'm not finishing that statement either. You guys pretty much explain it for this post.
Quote from: Spekkio on February 14, 2008, 09:37:53 AM
Btw, "silent" is a bit of a misnomer -- mercs can hear rolls quite easily if they are in the vicinity of the spy.
This is probably the crux of the issue then, as far as I can tell it's the one difference between xbox and PC. On xbox you can't hear rolls.
However, on PS, as far as I know, we won't be able to hear them either. I thought on of things that's being done on PS is fixing uber EAX sound. So if it doesn't ping the reticule you probably won't be able to hear it either. I don't think hearing rolls is going to be something we can count on as a balancing factor in PS even if it did exist in CT.
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 14, 2008, 05:58:16 PM
LOL...NO SPEKKIO...IM TOO LATE....I would've said "don't do it."
Comparing the Iraq war to CT for PC is....well....I'm not finishing the statement. To even bring it up as a comparison was....well....I'm not finishing that statement either. You guys pretty much explain it for this post.
Lol, not comparing the war to the game. Only the principal. Hell it could be anything, not just the war lmao :D People can have opinions based on things they hear, that was my point, forget the iraq war and just think about that.
QuoteHowever, on PS, as far as I know, we won't be able to hear them either. I thought on of things that's being done on PS is fixing uber EAX sound. So if it doesn't ping the reticule you probably won't be able to hear it either. I don't think hearing rolls is going to be something we can count on as a balancing factor in PS even if it did exist in CT.
This only illustrates my point: even though Papa (and you) have experience playing on the Xbox, you really shouldn't comment on PC specific mechanics without experience with it. Likewise, I'm not going to start a thread saying that the 180 "quick turn" on Xbox is overpowered because I don't know what it's like to have it.
Fixing uber EAX constitutes not being able to hear rolling in a vent from anywhere in Club House, which pretty much gives away the fact that the spy is in the only vent in the entire map.
I certainly think that the mercs should be able to hear spies roll from within a certain range. No one's twisting the spy's arm to press Q.