Dead Bodies Staying In Game - Interesting~~~

[Farley4Fan]

once again papaskull shows eveyone his arrogance to read / his inability to comprehend former posts (>vega) and the fact that he has no clue of this game ::)

Once again Gawain come up with an insult that has no reasoning or proof behind it.

Why would this only work for a war game?  Honestly.  Splinter cell Single Player you could haul bodies.  That's not a war game is it?  No.  Why is it so wrong to have dead bodies in a game where killing is common?  Why not make them interactive somewhat?  The only thing that would be interactive would be backpacks.  And there is NO guarantee that there will be something in it when you go to refill.

[neth]

Papa, reasons why its a bad idea were listed above. They're quite convincing.

[Kurbutti]

Why would this only work for a war game?  Honestly.  Splinter cell Single Player you could haul bodies.  That's not a war game is it?  No.  Why is it so wrong to have dead bodies in a game where killing is common?

You are able to haul bodies in single player because it is sometimes necessary in order to continue the game. Also, this feature supports the game's concept of stealth by making it more difficult for your enemies to become aware your presence. Now, in SvM bodies do not play any role at all.  Secondly, the mercs are usually aware of your existance in the level, so there won't be any need to cover your advance, because tehre are no NPC characters in the game. The reason why this is, that you are playing against real human players, and a game like that has to play fluently in order to be fun. Making up time-consuming actions is not going to serve any purpose in a fast-paced concept such as this.

I also would like to clarify wheter you people are arguing for or against bodies alone, or bodies that are interactive? Just asking because I wouldn't mind the former.

Why not make them interactive somewhat?  The only thing that would be interactive would be backpacks.  And there is NO guarantee that there will be something in it when you go to refill.

Why do we have to make them interactive? If backpack would be the only thing that could give your the refill, it would become a norm for many people to take it, because it automatically inreases the theoretical maximum of gadges the mercs can have on the field. This advantege will not be gained if BP is not taken, so the idea is flawed.

Could please explain how you would not be sure how much stuff you find in the backpack, if you knew it was full when you died?

[Farley4Fan]

I know that.  I was only explaining that hauling bodies don't belong in a war game, but can exist in stealth games also.

I suggest that the bodies stay.  You wouldn't be able to do anything with them.  They would, however, react to explosions and such.  Like if you grenade an area next to the body the body would fly a few feet.  Or if you walk over the body you would push it.

IF the body of the person had a backpack on it, you would be able to remove it from the body and hide it if you were spy.  If you were merc, you could refill on the backpack if you find it.  The refill would take 4-5 seconds so spies can use them as traps if they are smart enough.

You would only be able to refill your gadgets if you were missing some.  Like if you had full gadgets, 4 frags, then you wouldn't be able to get anything from it.  And think about it.  If you are a merc you can only die 2 times and still live.  So there would only be 2 backpacks out there, if you brought them, that possibly have some frags.  Spies can hide them also.  You would also be able to use your dead teammate's backpack, if you find it and if it contains something, to refill.  Which may not be the smartest thing to do because it takes some time.

The backpack wouldn't slow the spy down, so he could just run over it and throw it over his shoulder and continue to run full speed. 

Really, this would only be a small part of gameplay, but it could add some fun situations for traps. 

[Vega]

And how the fuck may I ask that ANYONE ever would get the idea that it would turn the game into a 32 person FPS?  That just doesn't make the slightest sense at all.  How many deaths would you say there are in a game?  Depending on who wins it is usually about 7 deaths.  7 does not equal 32.  And the bodies would be scattered across the map.  I even suggested only backpacks remaining.  Tell me how, Vega, if backpacks remain turn it into a different kind of game.

Get this:

3 lives per merc
6 merc lives total
IF they both brought backpack that would equal 5 total refills because the last guy can't refill on his own dead body right?  Because the game would be over if he died.
IF THEY EVEN had anything left in their backpack when they died you would be able to refilll ONLY that.

Example:
If a merc refills comletely on all of his gadgets before he dies his backpack on his dead body would be empty.  The person who tries to refill on it would get NOTHING because the  backpack would be empty. 

FURTHERMORE, if the spy can hide the backpack because he suspects that there may be some extra frags left in it.



I REALLY do not understand why just having a few backpacks laying around ( that may not even contain anything, and that spies can hide easily ) would alter the game into a 32 person FPS. WTF?  And why would we not want to add dead bodies to add that creepy atmosphere?

I'm not going to answer this because it is blatantly obvious you did not understand my post.  Re-read my post and then get back to me.  I gotta hand it to you when it comes to looking like an ass, you pull it off flawlessly.  

Wait, so now you are using the realism argument?  wow.  Since when has the spy been about killing?  Non lethal force spies only use LETHAL force if they have to.  So, they would just hide the nades (or destroy them) and not use them against the merc anyways, correct?

Haha you did it again.  I guess sarcasm flies over your head, too. ::)

[Kurbutti]

"You would only be able to refill your gadgets if you were missing some.  Like if you had full gadgets, 4 frags, then you wouldn't be able to get anything from it.  And think about it.  If you are a merc you can only die 2 times and still live.  So there would only be 2 backpacks out there, if you brought them, that possibly have some frags.  Spies can hide them also.  You would also be able to use your dead teammate's backpack, if you find it and if it contains something, to refill.  Which may not be the smartest thing to do because it takes some time."

Did you even read my post? I thought I already explained that there is no way to make the BP interactive and optional at the same time without giving it a buff, because it still increases the amount of equipment on the field available for the mercs beyond the standard.

Besides, you can't possibly argue for any gameplay mechanic that, in order the be functioning as intented, requires a certain playstyle.


"IF the body of the person had a backpack on it, you would be able to remove it from the body and hide it if you were spy.  If you were merc, you could refill on the backpack if you find it.  The refill would take 4-5 seconds so spies can use them as traps if they are smart enough."

Do you really think BP+Cam traps would work after the first week? Every single time I'd see a PB somewhere I'd just flip my mask on, assuming I ever need to refill from the dead. That's just as easy to counter like most of the quickcams, and that doesn't really count as "smart" behaviour in my book.

[Cyntrox]

I say we can think about this AFTER testing, if the backpack somehow turns out to be underpowered.

[Kurbutti]

I say we can think about this AFTER testing, if the backpack somehow turns out to be underpowered.

It's not going to work in the first place, because if backpack stays on the ground and can be used to refill, then it definetly encourages it's selection over the others. Therefore it's not a valid gadget, unless it was made a gimmic, but that's not a good idea either.

*Edit*
I'll give you one possible example of why the backpack is underpowered: You can't get enough stuff from it. Solution: add moar stuff; no need to make them stay on the ground.  Oh I know, lemme just shove that proxy into my backpack so it'll just go off whenever a spy gets near, so no-one has to worry about it later on.

[Cyntrox]

definetly encourages it's selection over the others.

Well, OF COURSE it does! Hence giving it more power >.>

[MulleDK19]

The bodies should not stay... It should be like the suits in Crysis... When an agent die, the suit will vaporize the dead body.

[Kurbutti]

The bodies should not stay... It should be like the suits in Crysis... When an agent die, the suit will vaporize the dead body.

That's a good idea. But what about the mercenary? Same? Oh well, beats blink-blink.

[Farley4Fan]

Letting bodies die and not decay immediately is probably the worst idea that could be implemented into the game.  Having the ability to move them and take items from your previous body is equally bad.  Not only is it extremely silly but it also hurts gameplay.

It's ridiculous to see your old body and be able to take items from it.  It's a 4-player stealth action multiplayer, not a 32-player FPS.  Leaving bodies in a large-scale game makes a little more sense because the game's goal is usually to imitate war or a large battle -- thus having multiple bodies lieing around to give it that war-like atmosphere.  With our small, usually indoor maps, the idea of seeing your self lieing on the ground is just retarded.  "Wait, lemme grab some nades off this body that looks very similar to me.  Good thing the spy can't use these nades against me, he can only move the body lol stupid spy." 

Mic previously mentioned how this could hurt gameplay as players could use the dead body as a key point for defending an objective.  Besides that, hiding a body is simply a lame mechanic to add to this game.  Oh goodie, you can hide a body, put a cam near the body, then trigger the cam to knock-out the merc.  Wow, that was some pretty awesome tactics there.  I'm glad our game turns from "find the spy" to "find the body."  That's a slight exxageration with my last sentence, but it's a stupid mechanic to add nonetheless.

I'm not trying to bash the idea, well I am, but I'm putting forth my opinion because I feel this hurts gameplay in a negative way.

I read your post.  And there is NO fucking way that a few bodies would ever make it FEEL like a 32 person war game.  Ever.  In a 32 person war game there would be MUCH more bodies than a maximum of 12 bodies (1 merc and 1 spy left)  USUALLY it won't even get to 8 dead bodies, because USUALLY there are about 8 deaths per game.  Tell me how 8 bodies creates a warlike atmosphere like 32 bodies would?  IT WOULDN'T!  Furthermore, the 8 bodies would be a little more scattered, in maps like Splinter Cell because the action takes place all over the map.  So, every now and then, you MAY come across a dead body.  That would give more of a creepy feel than a war feel.

They wouldn't block things ffs, who said that?

definetly encourages it's selection over the others.

Does that really matter?  Seriously.  Backpack is already used by 90% of players, pretty much every match.  It's already used by the majority, so why does it matter if it's boosted?  It's not like it's going to change everything.

[InvisibleMan999]

Does that really matter?  Seriously.  Backpack is already used by 90% of players, pretty much every match.  It's already used by the majority, so why does it matter if it's boosted?  It's not like it's going to change everything.

Worst argument ever.

[Kurbutti]

Does that really matter?  Seriously.  Backpack is already used by 90% of players, pretty much every match.  It's already used by the majority, so why does it matter if it's boosted?  It's not like it's going to change everything.

I have to admit that's a very rough statistic. Let's play there are ten teams playing as merc. What are their most likely gadgets? I'd guess the total amount of people using backpacks would be more close to 50/50, than 90/10.

Why should it be boosted? I mean, is it broken or what? You seem to argue for the boost simply for it's undoubtable coolness, not against current backpack's theorized flaws Afterwards, you simply wrap it up with made-up statistics and thorw it onto the table. I'm afraid that's not going to work.

[Cyntrox]

Does that really matter?  Seriously.  Backpack is already used by 90% of players, pretty much every match.  It's already used by the majority, so why does it matter if it's boosted?  It's not like it's going to change everything.

Worst argument ever.

True.

Gas mask is used by 90% of all players, so let's give it unlimited air supply!