camnet and bullets/ snares

[neth]

Yea, but why should you have to take a specific gadget to counter another gadget? That's stupid.

K, lets remove gas mask and introduce breath holding.

Tazed camnet = useless camnet in most cases.

[Spekkio]

Should there be a security failure when its knocked out?

Sure, if necessary, but I don't see how seeing the static by looking through it would be that difficult.

Look: to shoot out the camnet, the spy has to draw the gun (makes noise), shoot at the cam (also makes noise), then get to where he's gotta be in a very short period of time (makes noise if he's got to go a long distance). I really don't see how camnet is going to be "useless" in this situation. You'll know what room the spy was in last. You'll know where he can go from there, you'll know what map security he has to shoot out or bypass, and, depending on how far he has to go, you might here him running.

Yea, Museum is kind of a tossup because there's like no security in the whole goddamn map. But let's assume the PS map makers strike a better balance between PT fortresses and CT run around freely maps, kk?

K, lets remove gas mask and introduce breath holding.

Well, I've said it many times: I don't think that gadgets should hard counter each other. It creates a dumb pre-match guessing game.

[Westfall]

Should there be a security failure when its knocked out?

Sure, if necessary, but I don't see how seeing the static by looking through it would be that difficult.

It wouldn't, but you may not be using camnet all of the time. So you may not even know its out to begin with. I don't think there should be one.

[Spekkio]

Well, the whole point of camnet is that you're supposed to activate it to get its benefit. If you're going to give a security out, why not also have camnet automatically find spies for you? (that was sarcastic, obviously).

[BurningDeath]

Should there be a security failure when its knocked out?

Sure, if necessary, but I don't see how seeing the static by looking through it would be that difficult.

Look: to shoot out the camnet, the spy has to draw the gun (makes noise), shoot at the cam (also makes noise), then get to where he's gotta be in a very short period of time (makes noise if he's got to go a long distance). I really don't see how camnet is going to be "useless" in this situation. You'll know what room the spy was in last. You'll know where he can go from there, you'll know what map security he has to shoot out or bypass, and, depending on how far he has to go, you might here him running.

Hold on, you may know all that - new players probably won't. We can't design it so that only die hard fans that play 24/7 have a chance.

Besides, you can draw also your gun silently, so that doesn't have to make noise. ;)

[Spekkio]

Hold on, you may know all that - new players probably won't. We can't design it so that only die hard fans that play 24/7 have a chance.

It doesn't take a diehard fan playing 24/7 to learn the map. Hell, wtf do you do when you don't take camnet? Run around in circles aimlessly until you lose?

Part of the game's fun factor is using your head to figure out what the spies are doing.

[Gawain]

Besides, you can draw also your gun silently, so that doesn't have to make noise. ;)

yeah without the laser which makes it harder to aim (or can it be activated silently afterwards?). but this makes absolutely no difference because firing ss always makes a pretty loud noise.

Hold on, you may know all that - new players probably won't. We can't design it so that only die hard fans that play 24/7 have a chance.

it's not that you can't play successfully without camnet. camnet shouldn't be a no-brainer, you gotta learn when to use it, where to look with it, etc. it's no a basic game mechanics you need to be good at, it's another helpful gadget that can easily be replaced by spytraps, other patroul routes etc.

[BurningDeath]

Hold on, you may know all that - new players probably won't. We can't design it so that only die hard fans that play 24/7 have a chance.

it's not that you can't play successfully without camnet. camnet shouldn't be a no-brainer, you gotta learn when to use it, where to look with it, etc. it's no a basic game mechanics you need to be good at, it's another helpful gadget that can easily be replaced by spytraps, other patroul routes etc.
[/quote]
Okay, I can agree on that. Just talking about learning curve and such things, we must not forget that!

[Ion.67]

Hold on, you may know all that - new players probably won't. We can't design it so that only die hard fans that play 24/7 have a chance.

It doesn't take a diehard fan playing 24/7 to learn the map. Hell, wtf do you do when you don't take camnet? Run around in circles aimlessly until you lose?

Part of the game's fun factor is using your head to figure out what the spies are doing.

I agree, again. I didn't really like the game when I first played it, because I had no idea where I was getting shot from, or where sounds came from. Now that I know, it is so much fun. That is one of the fun factors of this game, learning everything.

[neth]

I dont want to start new topic, cause the issue I want to discuss is connected with this one.

Wouldnt it be a nice idea if bullet placed near ordinary cam could show whats happening there ?
There are 3 options where you could see it:

1) in a small window of you hud
2) on spy's hand after zooming in
3) you wouldnt see anything else than the camera view

This could be useful in many situations, example: On club you could place the bullet next to the cam watching door to tea and lunch. Player could easily say when he has to use the spy camera to sleep merc.
I know for many of us radar or the sound of opening door is enough but its only one of the examples this option could work. You could also use it to see merc's position/ behaviour or mine placement .When youre looking through the camera you shouldnt be able to see more than you can see on the radar. Discuss.

[Farley4Fan]

Interesting idea neth.  What if a merc is watching through the camera?  Does it give a him a little "bugged" message?

[neth]

This idea refers to ordinary cams, merc cant look through them.

[Farley4Fan]

oh right.  Your club example is pretty weak though, because a spy bullet would let you know if a merc is there anyways.  You don't really need to see through that one.  But I can think of other cams where it would be of good use.

[InvisibleMan999]

I agree, again. I didn't really like the game when I first played it, because I had no idea where I was getting shot from, or where sounds came from. Now that I know, it is so much fun. That is one of the fun factors of this game, learning everything.

The main way to attract newbies is to have a very detailed tutorial that lets them try stuff out themselves, like finding the source of a sound for instance.

Also no hidden mechanics. None. Everything should be explained.

[Farley4Fan]

Eh, there should be some things that people learn over time.  Otherwise it's completely noob friendly.  I understand that MOST mechanics should be covered so that newbs have a basic idea of what's going on, but not everything.  Some things are better left untaught so the player himself can learn over time.  Most tricks aren't even intended to go in the game anyways, so therefore won't be in the tutorial.