REALITY CHECK: each person write 1 thing they would like to see in PS

[Farley4Fan]

That's where clever placement comes in.  Placing them next to where you removed a merc mine is a good spot.  Placing them in loud areas, assuming there are places in PS where it's too loud to hear a beep.  Also, coupling them with other mines.  I don't think that we can really tell what they'd be like now.  Like a lot of other things suggested, this would need testing.  It could end up useless, overpowered, it could end up not changing gameply, or it could severely change the way the game is played.  Hell, it could end up perfectly balanced where everyone is welcome to the effects it has on gameplay.  I don't know, you don't know.  But it's still good to discuss it eh?

[VaNilla]

Personally, I think that it's a shit idea, all the other gadgets are much better than this and because of the following reasons, this gadget would never be taken. Spys already have a portable 'mine' as such, the sticky cam is a portable gadget which can be shot anywhere from distance which releases sleeping gas. Thats good because unlike a mine which has to be placed by hand, the quick appliance of a sticky cam makes it more accessible, and it's more likely to be effective than a smoke, a chaff or flash mine. Reason this is that although mines don't need monitoring I doubt a smoke, flash, or chaff mine is something that's gonna protect you from distance atall, unless you place it by a vantage point against hacks which again, a cam is alot more effective in most situations.

I think this is yet another example of a gadget designed to deter from teamwork, one of the main parts of the game. A team-mate can do all the things you suggest of the mine much more effectively, he can also multi-task while doing this by doing things like camming for you etc, and that's not all. Any clever spy knows that he may be sniped from a vantage point, which is why when you don't have a team-mate at hand you pre-chaff the vantage points or stop hacking, shock and chaff a merc when he appears, and continue. In my opinion, the portable mine would suck complete ass.

[Gawain]

i totally agree with stonecoldkilla (+the timing skill of sticky cams).

[InvisibleMan999]

Personally, I think that it's a shit idea, all the other gadgets are much better than this and because of the following reasons, this gadget would never be taken. Spys already have a portable 'mine' as such, the sticky cam is a portable gadget which can be shot anywhere from distance which releases sleeping gas.  Thats good because unlike a mine which has to be placed by hand, the quick appliance of a sticky cam makes it more accessible, and it's more likely to be effective than a smoke, a chaff or flash mine. Reason this is that although mines don't need monitoring I doubt a smoke, flash, or chaff mine is something that's gonna protect you from distance atall, unless you place it by a vantage point against hacks which again, a cam is alot more effective in most situations.

Well the idea of a chaff mine for instance would be that you can prevent someone from sniping you. If you combine that with heartbeat, that can be very effective, since you often know which direction the merc will come from. Also the mine itself can work while you're hacking, so unlike a cam, you don't have to stop hacking to use it. Unlike a cam, a spymine isn't going to get you 10 seconds to do what you want. It's purpose is to buy you a few extra hacking seconds or disorient the merc as you make your escape. Given that you can't fire frags or snipe while chaffed, a chaff mine definitely has a lot of possibilities in various levels.

I think this is yet another example of a gadget designed to deter from teamwork, one of the main parts of the game. A team-mate can do all the things you suggest of the mine much more effectively, he can also multi-task while doing this by doing things like camming for you etc, and that's not all. Any clever spy knows that he may be sniped from a vantage point, which is why when you don't have a team-mate at hand you pre-chaff the vantage points or stop hacking, shock and chaff a merc when he appears, and continue. In my opinion, the portable mine would suck complete ass.

It's tough to prechaff certain spots because the chaff grenade arcs, making it difficult to hit high up, for instance, if you wanted to hit the walkway from tech on aqua. That's almost impossible to chaff that with a standard grenade (at least from the objective). The mine, because it's a straight fire launcher like a cam, would allow you to throw up mines in places where you normally couldn't hit easily with your grenade launcher. And the straight line launch makes it rather useful. There are quite a few spots on existing maps that you'd benefit from having the ability to lay a mine that prevents frags or sniping. I figure that will probably hold true for PS maps as well, unless the map makers go in a completely different direction.

The mine also has the advantage of not instantly revealing your position the way firing a grenade from the launcher would, since it fires a fast projectile instead of a very visible grenade.

Mines could also be used as an advance warning system, where you throw them down in a corridor close to where you're hacking, so the merc can't round the bend without you knowing about it and you've got more time to escape, that'd be very useful against a host merc.

For aggro ambushes, you'd have the chaff mine + quickflash combo, where you wait for the merc to trip your chaff (whcih throws him out of visions), then you flash him.

As far as detering teamwork, I see it as being no different than using a spybullet for recon instead of having your partner watch. A mine is a nice help, but it's also taking up a gadget slot, and I'd still rather have a partner with a sticky rather than rely on a mine. Mines would be nice when you happen to split up though.

And the nice thing about this idea is that it's easy to code. There's already going to be code for proxies, there's already going to be code for chaff, and there's already code to launch objects form the spy's launcher in a straight trajectory (spybullets, cams). Take the merc mine model, make it about half size and change its color scheme a bit ,and there you go. Spy mine.

[Blank Man]

I noticed in the EMF video that the spy is completely invisible to EMF when not using any equipment. I think it should stay like in CT where he is slightly visible, like a shadow or something.

[VaNilla]

Well the idea of a chaff mine for instance would be that you can prevent someone from sniping you. If you combine that with heartbeat, that can be very effective, since you often know which direction the merc will come from. Also the mine itself can work while you're hacking, so unlike a cam, you don't have to stop hacking to use it. Unlike a cam, a spymine isn't going to get you 10 seconds to do what you want. It's purpose is to buy you a few extra hacking seconds or disorient the merc as you make your escape. Given that you can't fire frags or snipe while chaffed, a chaff mine definitely has a lot of possibilities in various levels. - So are you going to heartbeat while hacking yeah? Then there wouldn't even be a reason for chaffing a snipe position in the first place because your hiding with HB. The simple fact is that any good merc does not have to snipe to stop you hacking, they may not kill you but they can stop you hacking by just shooting at you without the sniper, rendering the chaff mine you place useless. Also, I would rather put a merc to sleep than disorient him and have a harder escape.

It's tough to prechaff certain spots because the chaff grenade arcs, making it difficult to hit high up, for instance, if you wanted to hit the walkway from tech on aqua. That's almost impossible to chaff that with a standard grenade (at least from the objective). The mine, because it's a straight fire launcher like a cam, would allow you to throw up mines in places where you normally couldn't hit easily with your grenade launcher. And the straight line launch makes it rather useful. There are quite a few spots on existing maps that you'd benefit from having the ability to lay a mine that prevents frags or sniping. I figure that will probably hold true for PS maps as well, unless the map makers go in a completely different direction. - Again, you don't have to snipe to shoot from a distance and stop a hack. If your in a position that can only be fragged the smart thing to do is have a team-mate at hand to neck the merc very easily, if that's not the case I doubt a chaff grenade would really hold back a merc in the first place.

The mine also has the advantage of not instantly revealing your position the way firing a grenade from the launcher would, since it fires a fast projectile instead of a very visible grenade. - If your hacking, I think they already know exactly where you are ;).

Mines could also be used as an advance warning system, where you throw them down in a corridor close to where you're hacking, so the merc can't round the bend without you knowing about it and you've got more time to escape, that'd be very useful against a host merc. - Spy bullet is alot better to be honest, I'd rather know the exact position than have a guessing game.

For aggro ambushes, you'd have the chaff mine + quickflash combo, where you wait for the merc to trip your chaff (whcih throws him out of visions), then you flash him. - For aggro ambushes, I can't see anyone placing a mine to do a job for them when they're taking things head on in the first place.

As far as detering teamwork, I see it as being no different than using a spybullet for recon instead of having your partner watch. A mine is a nice help, but it's also taking up a gadget slot, and I'd still rather have a partner with a sticky rather than rely on a mine. Mines would be nice when you happen to split up though. - For the reasons I have stated already, cams would be alot nicer, the only problem with them is the merc Gasmask, but that's why you don't place cams directly over the snipe position, you place them a little further back, just like a mine only alot more effective.

And the nice thing about this idea is that it's easy to code. There's already going to be code for proxies, there's already going to be code for chaff, and there's already code to launch objects form the spy's launcher in a straight trajectory (spybullets, cams). Take the merc mine model, make it about half size and change its color scheme a bit ,and there you go. Spy mine. - It might be easy to code but so is making sticky shockers kill with every hit, doesn't mean it's necessarily a good thing to do.

I also agree with Blank Man about the EMF, gives a little value to the more perceptive players.

[InvisibleMan999]

- So are you going to heartbeat while hacking yeah? Then there wouldn't even be a reason for chaffing a snipe position in the first place because your hiding with HB. The simple fact is that any good merc does not have to snipe to stop you hacking, they may not kill you but they can stop you hacking by just shooting at you without the sniper, rendering the chaff mine you place useless. Also, I would rather put a merc to sleep than disorient him and have a harder escape.

Well duh. But it's not always easy to put a good merc to sleep. The idea of the chaff mine is that you may get shot, but you'll still be alive. And that's certainly a help.

Stick cams take timing and only fire in one direction, and also rely on the merc not having gas mask active. A chaff or smoke mine would be automatic, and hit a spread area.

Mines would be an alternative to sticky cams, in that they both can be used as a trap, or possibly even as a quickmine. The mine is easier to set up and generally faster, but less effective. Seems like a reasonable trade off to me. While you can avoid a sticky cam, setting up a chaff mine is going to be something that you simply can't avoid unless you want to approach slow (and give the spy more hacking time).

- If your hacking, I think they already know exactly where you are ;).

Well you can use it for other applications other than hacking. Perhaps to simply distract or disorient the merc by placing a mine in his way. Chaff mine + camo to get through the area wouldn't be a bad combo either.

Spy bullet is alot better to be honest, I'd rather know the exact position than have a guessing game.

Well of course, but spy bullet also can't stop the merc from sniping you.

- For the reasons I have stated already, cams would be alot nicer, the only problem with them is the merc Gasmask, but that's why you don't place cams directly over the snipe position, you place them a little further back, just like a mine only alot more effective.

Yeah, but that generally requires a partner, and you have to hope the merc doesn't anticipate it with gas mask. If it's you using the sticky it's rather hard to time while you're hacking. I mean sure, sticky cams are great, but they're also harder to use than a mine.

- It might be easy to code but so is making sticky shockers kill with every hit, doesn't mean it's necessarily a good thing to do.

If you're claiming it's useless, then coding it in won't have any effect. If you're claiming that it's overpowered, then maybe there's a problem.

But thus far, all I've heard is "I don't think it's good enough for me to use."

Which means that there is no harm in adding it if it's easy.

[Gawain]

it's not useless, it's just totally gay and unneeded.

I noticed in the EMF video that the spy is completely invisible to EMF when not using any equipment. I think it should stay like in CT where he is slightly visible, like a shadow or something.

removing emf ghosting is one of the best things that can happen to ct svm. if the map maker wants ghosting in some area, he can simply put something emf active in the background...

[AgentX_003]

who ever wants EMf ghosting back in the game has got to be insane ... =/

seriously thats just retarded , it wasn't soo much a problem when people had low end computers

but now thats all changed,  it wasn't meant to be in the game like that , it was yet again lazyness upon ubi.

[Tidenburg]

Dear lord, first sign of the apocalypse. Tidenburg agrees with agent!

[InvisibleMan999]

it's not useless, it's just totally gay and unneeded.

Good argument...

"OMG, that's gay!!!"

You sound like you're still in grade school. 

[Farley4Fan]

Blankman, stonecold, EMF ghosting is not in the game, nor should it be.  Have you even seen the EMF vid for PS?

I'm iffy on mines at least on Project Stealth 1.  Imo, project stealth 2 should be where new ideas are thrown into the mix.  Of course with a little open mindedness and a little creativity, it could be great.

[Blank Man]

Fine, then I get a different idea to choose from. I want it to be possible to shoot a sticky cam ON a merc. Maybe not be able to deploy smoke after that, but instead use it as a tracking device. Just press the *return to sticky key* and you will know the mercs location by seeing his surroundings.

[Farley4Fan]

O.M.G.

Are you serious?

Let's boost sticky cams even further by giving them spy bullet abilities. :D  It's a creative idea, somewhat, but seriously - it's not good for gameplay.

[Westfall]

I noticed in the EMF video that the spy is completely invisible to EMF when not using any equipment. I think it should stay like in CT where he is slightly visible, like a shadow or something.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You guys need to frame this quote. Make it your new logo. oh shit....wow

+2 to Agent.