CRD Vision

[Vega]

Essentially, I'm on the same boat as rambo when it comes to adding new gadgets/default equipment.  I would much rather keep the game as close as possible to CT since we know that formula works well.  But it appears that the devs want some new material to set ourselves apart -- just as Fortress Forever did when they were cloning Team Fortress Classic for the source engine. 

I was thinking along the same lines as Lennard if new visions were to be added, that the merc would choose 2-3 visions from a list of 3-5.  For a very basic example, you may decide to use CRD, EMF, and SR.  This would give you the advantage of locating spies generally and precisely, but lose the precious aggro advantage against spies with the loss of MT.  Also, it isn't to say that this CRD vision, or any other idea that helps tracks spies, couldn't be implemented as a selectable gadget instead of default equipment.  With these two ideas, we could add new elements to the game without overpowering either side -- just a different way of playing the game.

If any of you have played TF2, then what Iââ,¬â,,¢m proposing is a similar idea.  In TF2, you have the choice of using different weapons after you unlock them.  These weapons are not necessarily better, they just add a different element of game play.  If new content were to be added for PS, then the TF2 route is something to consider.

[frvge]

Interesting idea on that TF2-thing. <3 TF2.

[Tidenburg]

I assumed you would have to choose 2 visions anyway when I came up with this. As someone above said, this would be great on alot of maps but on some stages you just wouldn't want it with you.

Vega, thanks for interpreting what I meant when I left this for a bit. You're basically on the right lines with your post. What it does is it detects disturbance in the air around you, when anything moves is disrupted air around it which creates a ripple effect. At the distance this detects it at the thing would have to be hyper sensitive which is why it's quite futuristic in certain ways. Disturbance is a real word by the by. ;)

[Vega]

Yup, I figured that's how it works.  Btw, I know disturbance is a real word, but you used 'disruptance.'

[Tidenburg]

Shhhhhhhhhhh ;)

[Westfall]

How many visions are the devs looking for per side?

[Tidenburg]

I don't think any amount in particular. But they're just open to the possibility.

[Spekkio]

A couple of points:

1) Detecting the spies while they are crouching and moving slowly is generally bad. That's partly why MT is currently overpowered in MT...you can't sneak up on a merc unless he decides not to turn around for 6 years because you have to go too slow. However, I hope that the devs didn't take out the 360 degree detection for a spy who is running because the mercs will most likely need that to fend off aggro.

2) The fact that you can detect a spy through walls and all sorts of other things while he's moving slow per above is also bad because the spy has no way of knowing that he was detecting. In other words, if I stand up as a spy and start moving around, I know that I pinged the mercs' reticles. I know that they'll come soon. If I'm moving about carefully, I don't know if and when the mercs switch on wallhax vision.

3) Giving the mercs a selectable choice of visions is bad because the spies won't know which ones they need to avoid. That means that they'll pretty much have to guess which way to play stealthy until the merc comes and finds them, which ends up effectively wasting a life. Likewise, the mercs have no way of knowing which vision the spy is using at all, so giving the spies a choice of vision is bad as well. Adding visions is fine, if they're good, but they all need to be available universally.

[Tidenburg]

1) Frvge already said it's not 360 degree detection in PS.

2)Well the merc has no idea where you are, there's no distinct way of telling how close something is to you or what direction they are in, somthing small happening near you could equate to something moving further away. Also the vision makes a humm sound when active like the PD from DA.

3) Wrong. By your logic gadgets should also be removed because the spy has no way of telling which the merc has picked until they are used. The selection of visions on load-out wasn't my idea, it's been discussed and approved of by others quite a while ago?

[Vega]

3) Wrong. By your logic gadgets should also be removed because the spy has no way of telling which the merc has picked until they are used. The selection of visions on load-out wasn't my idea, it's been discussed and approved of by others quite a while ago?

Actually, Spekkio is right about #3.  Excluding a longer explanation, SR makes a spy play silently, where CRD makes a spy choose when to move or stay still.  This is what he meant when he said "which way to play stealthily."  SR and CRD each promote stealth gameplay, but just a different way of execution.   

[Tidenburg]

While I still disagree with the point because you also don't know which gadgets the merc has (you run cautiously if the mercs took mines), you could have the mercs vision load out displayed during the loading screen.

[Spekkio]

While I still disagree with the point because you also don't know which gadgets the merc has (you run cautiously if the mercs took mines), you could have the mercs vision load out displayed during the loading screen.

Mines show up on EMF and make noise, so it's quite easy to figure out where they are. Spy traps show up on emf. Camnet is only in specific locations. In other words, it's very easy to adjust for the possibility of the mercs having these items, whereas it's not as easy to adjust for the mercs having a different vision.

This also leads into the "shotgun surprise" where a merc kills you the first time at CQB with one shotgun blast because you don't know he has it. It causes you to change your playstyle from then on, but it's defintily an easier first kill for the merc if he doesn't fire a shot before he sees you.

[AgentX_003]

While I still disagree with the point because you also don't know which gadgets the merc has (you run cautiously if the mercs took mines), you could have the mercs vision load out displayed during the loading screen.

Which the mercs always do infact always take mines :/ its story ? :/ .

[Westfall]

While I still disagree with the point because you also don't know which gadgets the merc has (you run cautiously if the mercs took mines), you could have the mercs vision load out displayed during the loading screen.

Mines show up on EMF and make noise, so it's quite easy to figure out where they are. Spy traps show up on emf. Camnet is only in specific locations. In other words, it's very easy to adjust for the possibility of the mercs having these items, whereas it's not as easy to adjust for the mercs having a different vision.

I don't feel it would be all that difficult to adjust to merc visions if they vary from round to round. It's easy for spies to adjust to any eq the merc has. I don't see vision options as being more of a disturbance.

[Roberto1223]

1. almost nobody is ever going to use this.

2. why would it be a vision if u cant see shit; and even when it detects something it only blinds u more... (lame).

3. if blood trail (which is a good idea in my opinion) wont make it into this mod neither will this.