Suggestion Thread

[Cronky]

A Lot of stuff

Spekkio, I've had about enough of your close-minded, and frankly hypocritical statements that you post on here.

You are not only proposing that more things SHOULDN'T be added, but with the exclusion of Camnet, LESS should be in the final build of this game. That and anything that get's brought up is non-valid to the game because it's not a clear idea from the very beginning.

Did you not read what the Rope ideas were? Where I may have said in that sentence that "Yes a Rope would be fun", I assumed you'd connect that with any of the other posts. It's not backwards, it's suggestions, Discussion, and Refinement.

Not all ideas are perfect, not all will work, and not all will obviously be put into the game. That doesn't mean we can't talk about them. Figure out if they CAN work on the offchance that the Devs actually want to make their game NEW somehow. I've heard of no Gadget on PS that differs from CT at all.

I bring up hypocritical because of the fact that when you are validating the ideas in here you take them to extremes, but when you are suggesting an idea you politely ask NOT to take something to an extreme. Ammo Crates and Death does not Refill Gadgets.

"Sure it's easy to think of extreme examples to support either case, but if the devs are motivated enough I think they can reach a sweet spot."

If I'm not mistaken, you just said the equivalent to, "This idea isn't perfect, but if the Devs put it in and balance it then it could work". Balancing equaling out to Play Testing. That which has been brought to my attention that You, "love how that is always the fallback for people with shitty ideas.".

You (and your group) didn't like the Gadget Variation Rewards because it takes away options from the players, but putting in too many can mess the game up too... That sounds like it Validates the Rewards now. Since you wont be messed up if you don't have them from the start, and STILL none of them are HUGELY Overpowered.

I'm glad you're thinking of the technical side of this whole entire thread, but you're leaving VERY little room for discussion. So again I must SUGGEST that if you can't think of a way that these SUGGESTIONS could work, stay in your "Old" Gadget Balancing thread.

[Ion.67]

You are retarded. There are certain people on these boards that generally shoot ideas down right away that are dumb, and they have reason to. They have been part of this since the beginning and have played CT and PT a whole lot. Basically, you registered 2 months ago and are flaming people for thinking your idea is wrong. Well, I barely played PT and played CT a fair share but can still tell you that your rope idea is terribly dumb. When someone comes up with a decent idea I am sure it will be okay and everyone will be happy.

No one wants to refine your idea because your idea is shit to begin with. I remember when the first thought of a rope came up, and I remember it being of a noose that could be used to trap mercs. That is shit. A rope that would be used for coop came of that, which is basically the same as the current way, which equates to shit. Using a rope to set up and trip people is shit. These spies have access to cameras with gas that knocks people out and they still fall back to a rope?

In my mind, the merc sets up defenses, the spy infiltrates and outsmarts the merc. I understand that spies use spy bullets and cameras, but not once have I thought that a rope would have been a greater advantage than a spy camera.

The ranking system is dumb as no one wants to play for rank. I liked how CT was always a random chance of getting good or bad players. It varied a lot. I do not want to play for 100 hours and snap 28 necks in 6 games to get a better shocker that will immobilize the mercs for an extra second. The reason it works in COD and TF2 is that it is the only way to keep millions of people playing, that smidgen of hope that the next unlock will make their penis bigger and their wins go up.

BTW, anyone who says that the idea should be tested is retarded. You first make sure the idea is good enough to be in the game. You use testing to see what smaller details work, like the knockout timer and the visibility of the object. Cameras are in the game for sure, but testing will be needed to check and see if the timer works out okay, if the noise is too loud, etc...

This mod started as a way for the members of the forums who wanted their old SvM back could get it, along with support from the devs for the community. Who gives a flying rats ass if there is more or less in the game? No one initially wanted much more than the game already had, besides better graphics and support for common problems. New gadgets are not a necessity.

P.S. I am not part of the group mentioned in the beginning. I am sure you can tell who is, primarily based on their attitude.

[CurdyMilk]

This mod started as a way for the members of the forums who wanted their old SvM back could get it, along with support from the devs for the community. Who gives a flying rats ass if there is more or less in the game? No one initially wanted much more than the game already had, besides better graphics and support for common problems. New gadgets are not a necessity.

P.S. I am not part of the group mentioned in the beginning. I am sure you can tell who is, primarily based on their attitude.

First of all, it is not a mod anymore.  Second, the devs emphasize this is not an update, remake, or even a blend of PT or CT.  It is not just a matter of better graphics and resolved problems.  Different engine. Different game.  Now does this mean it is a completely different idea?  No, but it is still a different game.  Third, the devs take all suggestions into consideration whether they are good or bad ones.  Like they said before, it is worth 100 bad ideas to get 1 good one.  So how are they going to find any good ideas without suggestions?  Although new gadgets are not a necessity, they have not ruled out the possibility so therefore it is still up for debate.  Fourth, a dev member himself (tigaer) said he wanted certain ideas tested.  

[Spekkio]

Cronky, along with the words "succinct" and "concise," recommend looking up the definition to "hypocrite."

Gadget rewards and too many gadgets in the game are two separate issues; I am not against gadget rewards because it results in too many or too few options for the player.

PS always was, and still is, a remake of CT with modifications to fix the dozens of issues that the game had. There's a thread somewhere around here with the mission statement on it; I suggest you read it. All the claims of separating PS from CT/PT by the devs are just CYA measures so they don't get sued.

Also, all you "just make these stupid gadget" guys fail to realize that this mod er game is being made by people in their spare time. Good luck convincing them to spend the hundreds of man-hours necessary to even create your stupid ideas in the mod er game.

"Sure it's easy to think of extreme examples to support either case, but if the devs are motivated enough I think they can reach a sweet spot."

Different situation. We weren't discussing whether removing gadget refills at death was fundamentally wrong. Ion seems to think so; my response to him would not be to just "test it." What you and I were discussing is if it would be too easy or difficult for the mercs to cover all their bases. That requires testing because there are a lot of variables that can be easily altered such as time it takes, how loud it is, etc.

The only reason I suggested it is because of the problem of mercs committing suicide for equipment and spies not giving thought to the use of their equipment. This makes the end-game difficult when their mines and traps are concentrated around only 2-3 objectives vs. 5-6. Add in double backpack, and for all practical purposes you have mercs with infinite equipment. On the spy end, I don't believe a player should be rewarded for spamming smokes/cams by being given a complete refill upon death. If Ion disagrees that this is a problem, then the discussion is over; we will have to agree to disagree. There is no "oh, let's test this" because the issue is no longer a question of balance, but rather a question of design.

A rope is fundamentally flawed. There's simply no use to the item whatsoever. It doesn't solve any "problem" within the context of the game; the disagreement is over design, not balance.

@ion: <3 <3 <3

[Cronky]

You are retarded. There are certain people on these boards that generally shoot ideas down right away that are dumb, and they have reason to. They have been part of this since the beginning and have played CT and PT a whole lot. Basically, you registered 2 months ago and are flaming people for thinking your idea is wrong. Well, I barely played PT and played CT a fair share but can still tell you that your rope idea is terribly dumb. When someone comes up with a decent idea I am sure it will be okay and everyone will be happy.

No one wants to refine your idea because your idea is shit to begin with. I remember when the first thought of a rope came up, and I remember it being of a noose that could be used to trap mercs. That is shit. A rope that would be used for coop came of that, which is basically the same as the current way, which equates to shit. Using a rope to set up and trip people is shit. These spies have access to cameras with gas that knocks people out and they still fall back to a rope?

In my mind, the merc sets up defenses, the spy infiltrates and outsmarts the merc. I understand that spies use spy bullets and cameras, but not once have I thought that a rope would have been a greater advantage than a spy camera.

The ranking system is dumb as no one wants to play for rank. I liked how CT was always a random chance of getting good or bad players. It varied a lot. I do not want to play for 100 hours and snap 28 necks in 6 games to get a better shocker that will immobilize the mercs for an extra second. The reason it works in COD and TF2 is that it is the only way to keep millions of people playing, that smidgen of hope that the next unlock will make their penis bigger and their wins go up.

BTW, anyone who says that the idea should be tested is retarded. You first make sure the idea is good enough to be in the game. You use testing to see what smaller details work, like the knockout timer and the visibility of the object. Cameras are in the game for sure, but testing will be needed to check and see if the timer works out okay, if the noise is too loud, etc...

This mod started as a way for the members of the forums who wanted their old SvM back could get it, along with support from the devs for the community. Who gives a flying rats ass if there is more or less in the game? No one initially wanted much more than the game already had, besides better graphics and support for common problems. New gadgets are not a necessity.

P.S. I am not part of the group mentioned in the beginning. I am sure you can tell who is, primarily based on their attitude.

I would HOPE that in a Perfect world your opinion and it's validity on the forum wouldn't be in direct correlation with how long you've been sitting on this forum. The idea that I've only been on here for 2 months, and someone else has been here longer doesn't mean they are any less wrong in their treatment of opinions.

The Rope idea is one of MANY. The idea is, "Well the first one has an obvious reason why it doesn't work... Is there anything way it could? Is there something it could solve?". After all the options are pushed away, the Rope won't be discussed about. It's up for debate right now on what it COULD do, if you don't like where it's going... SUGGEST SOMETHING ELSE! It's a SUGGESTION thread, not a "Put Concrete Ideas in that aren't subject to change". Saying something like, "It'd break the game, also it's useless" and leaving it at that doesn't progress anything.

Seems like you haven't played TF2, or CoD. TF2 at least doesn't give you an UPGRADE to your current weapons, but it a DIFFERENT weapon to play with that has Similar Attributes. In PS terms... It's like the difference between the Merc's Grenade, and Phosphorus Grenade. Both are grenades, both get shot, but both do something different.

Pretty sure there were Ranks in CT also, just no one PLAYED ranked games. For whatever reason, the rank was just for people that STRICTLY played for stats alone. Stat Tracking would be a different way to do this as long as profiles are available from within the game. Extra step to check your opponents skills, but if you didn't HAVE to do that. It'd be completely legit to give some kind of notification that they didn't just start playing. (Dummy/Smurf Accounts are still possible with this, but you can't rid yourself of those)

@Spekkio

I think I'm being perfectly reasonable with the amount of text I'm spitting out now (To Specific People). Unless you REALLY want a 3 page essay again.

You didn't touch on the OTHER parts of why I used the word "Hypocritical", so I assume those were alright.

As for why you were against Rewards I'll admit I just plopped you into the same group as Rocket, and I <3 U. They were separate ideas, but in the context of TOO many gadgets; Rewards could solve it in a better reasoning than, "I think it's fun". Pacing comes up again, but I'll let you bring back reasons of why it will or will not work in terms of that. Again, none of the gadgets that are suggested give you an unfair advantage, as there is no gadget that is ONLY countered by another Gadget you wouldn't have.

If you believe this is a waste of our time, then don't post here. Simple enough! We will have a lot of fun coming up with new and different ideas just to past the fucking time. Who cares? We are going on about things we would LIKE to see. Not that we think are for sure going to be in the game. If the devs did decide to use one of the ideas... WHOOPIE. The premise is that it's great to see ideas that people can come up with.

(Look I made the text smaller so it looks like it's less :)

[Spekkio]

As for why you were against Rewards I'll admit I just plopped you into the same group as Rocket, and I <3 U. They were separate ideas, but in the context of TOO many gadgets; Rewards could solve it in a better reasoning than, "I think it's fun". Pacing comes up again, but I'll let you bring back reasons of why it will or will not work in terms of that. Again, none of the gadgets that are suggested give you an unfair advantage, as there is no gadget that is ONLY countered by another Gadget you wouldn't have.

Gadget rewards does not solve any problem about too many gadgets; it merely prolongs it until everyone plays long enough to get all their unlocks (or figures out how to hack the .ini, which is what I would do).

[Spark Mandriller]

I like how Cronky still hasn't given up on the fucking unlocks despite every single person who posts here saying they don't want them.

Very dedicated.

Hey Cronky, have you considered testing being less dedicated, maybe? That's a suggestion, so you have to like it. Or at least not dislike it.

[Spekkio]

LoL...

But remember, noop, the forums are "almost unanimously" for unlocks!

[Ion.67]

Okay, I did play TF2 for a while. Not hardcore, mainly because I think playing games without friends isn't much fun. Well, CT with randoms was fun, cause I was a dick sometimes and it turned me on, but in multiplayer games with over 4 people it just loses interest fast. Now COD on the other hand... I play that quite a lot. I have it on the PS3, which I have friends on. It is pretty clear that in that game, the weapons aren't better, just different. Claymore is way different than a blast shield, I get that. But, why even do that? In a game that should be based around tactics, why throw in the possibilities of not having enough equipment to win? If I had to unlock alarm snares I would be pissed. There will not be a mass amount of gadgets, and having 4 to start off with will make me angry.

Pretty sure there were Ranks in CT also, just no one PLAYED ranked games. For whatever reason, the rank was just for people that STRICTLY played for stats alone. Stat Tracking would be a different way to do this as long as profiles are available from within the game. Extra step to check your opponents skills, but if you didn't HAVE to do that. It'd be completely legit to give some kind of notification that they didn't just start playing. (Dummy/Smurf Accounts are still possible with this, but you can't rid yourself of those)

No one played ranked games because no one cared what their stats were. In COD it is fun I guess to look and see that my friends suck ass, but it really doesn't matter. If you want to compare stats like in TF2 then go for it. Comparing my stats against my self would be fine, as that system was kind of cool and was a good loading screen. It did not cause boosting since it was compared against yourself, and was merely there as a reference. Am I saying this should be in the game? Nope. Not at all. But if you want stats then have it be to yourself.

Seems like you haven't played TF2, or CoD. TF2 at least doesn't give you an UPGRADE to your current weapons, but it a DIFFERENT weapon to play with that has Similar Attributes. In PS terms... It's like the difference between the Merc's Grenade, and Phosphorus Grenade. Both are grenades, both get shot, but both do something different.

Yeah that makes sense, except for the only thing that makes those two items similar is the fact that they pop out of the bottom of the gun. One is for marking and tracking, while one is for killing. I liked the Phos. nade to be honest. For some reason the fact that the spy has to come out of hiding because it COULD be a real grenade, and the fact that there is a good chance that he will be covered in a green gas excited me. It may have not been the most useful gadget, sure, but it had a purpose and was incredibly useful if used in the correct manor. I do not really care if it's in the game, but if we are going with new gadgets, why not bring that one back?

I would HOPE that in a Perfect world your opinion and it's validity on the forum wouldn't be in direct correlation with how long you've been sitting on this forum. The idea that I've only been on here for 2 months, and someone else has been here longer doesn't mean they are any less wrong in their treatment of opinions.

No, people with more experience are more qualified than you.

If you believe this is a waste of our time, then don't post here. Simple enough! We will have a lot of fun coming up with new and different ideas just to past the fucking time. Who cares? We are going on about things we would LIKE to see. Not that we think are for sure going to be in the game. If the devs did decide to use one of the ideas... WHOOPIE. The premise is that it's great to see ideas that people can come up with.

Waste your time on something useful. Think of ways to make the game more fun without adding in useless additions. My suggestion of best 2 of 3 games doesn't take much to implement. It is simple, requires a tiny bit of manpower, and could possibly make the game more fun. Talk about that. Why wouldn't it be good? It would make games take a while but not many people are okay with only playing one round of spy/merc and having the other team quitting anyway.

[Cronky]

@Noop

Only bringing back Unlocks when the situation could benefit from it. Think too many gadgets are going into the game? Then hold some back and give it to the people slowly, that way they aren't overrun with 20 gadgets, instead gaining a new gadget every few hours of gameplay. No one loses as long as you actually THINK of what to hold back. Not just throwing anything into the vault and locking it up.

@Spekkio

Sorry to break it to you, but STON3's Challenges are different than my unlocks... THUS why he is complaining why my Unlocks are in his topic. Get your facts straight before you voice your opinions. Which you seem to do a lot. :)

@Ion

A.) Time on these forums means nothing in comparison to opinion. I'd suggest you learn that and stop riding the "Veterans of this forums" Dicks.

B.) Games with a partner are fun. I personally played CT with the same partner the WHOLE time I played. That's how I can see this game as fun, instead of worrying about all the technical crap that Spek keeps bringing up (Not thinking technical ALL the time mind you. I haven't suggested the Spy get a Rocket Launcher, or anything to THAT extent). Camnet was fun with a partner you knew, tactics were made in time, and through it all.... I actually had fun instead of it being a competitive atmosphere 24/7.

C.)The point of Variation doesn't mean it's constrained to the same exact abilities of it's origin. Grenade and Phos. still hold true because they are both grenades. Both act the same, but are for a different purpose. Such as the difference between Sticky Cams, and my idea for Network Cams.

D.)Spend my time on things that are more useful? You're idea is already in the game. Revenge mode... +1... Good work! Best 2 out of 3 mode I'd call it. I could imagine it in there, but there would need to be a reason for someone to not just... Quit. Why focus on the subtlest of changes when we can actually think of something that would be different and fun! Trip rope, balanced or not would be fun. Obviously it would be balanced to BE in the game, but in concept right now. It just sounds entertaining. Co-op Gadgets would be fun. SvM Lacked new ideas even once it's third iteration came out.

E.) It was never said that ALL the gadgets were held back with the Rewards idea. Just the new Variations that are only there to give the player more to play with (Such as all these new ideas). I want to emphasize the word Variation because I don't mean to say that there would ever be a time when someone wouldn't have an ability. Such as:

If a Hologram deal was made and it ran in a straight line, Bam. That would be in.

If there was a Variation that Recorded a small segment of your movements then replayed them. Bam that could be held back. It's a small variation that accomplishes the same job in a different way. No one loses the ability to make a Hologram, but with more time spent on the game, they could get another Hologram that could suit their fancy better, OR be useless to them (Cause not everyone uses Every Gadget). In other words... TF2.

[Farley4Fan]

Why don't we make phos nades have no timer for explosion?  They should detonate on impact.  If you are a merc caught by a flashbang, then you should shoot a phosphorous nade.  The spy wouldn't have time to react and dodge the nade.  He'd get covered and be easy to track down.  More use for phosphorous = good for me.

[frvge]

See? A small, but original change that could benefit gameplay.

[Cronky]

Why don't we make phos nades have no timer for explosion?  They should detonate on impact.  If you are a merc caught by a flashbang, then you should shoot a phosphorous nade.  The spy wouldn't have time to react and dodge the nade.  He'd get covered and be easy to track down.  More use for phosphorous = good for me.

I could see that idea working. My only real concern with it being that it seems like the Phosphorus would then become a Close Quarters-only gadget. Cause if you shoot it at a target far away and miss then it was wasted. Really that just depends on skill, but just a slight concern.

Giving a button option to make it timed or contact explosive seems plausible to alleviate that situation. Could work with other grenades too. Giving more control over your grenade play. Then again though, if you could choose whether or not it blew up on contact it would take away the uniqueness of the Phos. and it's Contact explosion ability.

Either way would work in the end. People would fall into useful patterns of use if implemented in either fashion.

[frvge]

What about an 'explode on contact if it's a Spy, or if a Spy is in explosion range' and else it's timed?

[Cronky]

That could work also, but then again I believe (if I'm not mistaken) that it deviates from Farley's original intent of the new action.

Since his thought was to make a Splash even when you are under attack. If flashbanged like he said, you would be hard pressed to actually hit the spy. Thus the intent he was going for as a scare/countermeasure tactic (Again, unless I'm mistaken) would be lost. Not completely mind you since it would still blow up, but not instantly.

Would still be applicable your way though, since again people will learn to play with whatever you give them. Each of them being equally as workable as another if made.

Edit: Didn't see that part about "Within a certain Range" part. That seems like it might be hard to do, or tough to implement from my limited point of view pertaining to making games work. If using Range as a trigger, would you be able to differentiate between range when a wall is in the way? Or a similar situation (Perhaps if it was in the air near the spy, would it blow up? Or would you have to wait for it to touch the ground before it took that information in)