What if...

[Spark Mandriller]

I know retard, that doesn't mean I misinterpreted him, or gave him the incorrect response by talking about unrealistic factors in the game as a part of my post. Hurrr, you are dumb.

oh. oh right. you just started talking about unrealistic things completely unprompted for no reason at all.

yeah that makes sense stone. i can totally believe that.

[Spekkio]

I'm saying that he didn't have a problem with my interpretation of his post, not the point I was making. Are you being obtuse on purpose, or are you just a moron? Serious question ;).

Actually, the reason that I didn't harp on your stupidity is because I didn't have any idea that you were responding to my post. I thought someone else mentioned realism in an argument in that context and you were responding to them...I personally never use realism in that context wrt video games because that's a silly argument to make for a fantasy world. Additionally, it is beyond me how anyone could wrongly interpret my use of 'realistic' in that sentence as 'could happen in real life' when I clearly meant 'meaningful.'

So yes, you are retarded. Carry on.

The key term in my post was 'players of the same skill level'. I do think it's unbalanced in that instance, but you aren't always playing against similarly matched players.

This makes my head hurt.

Is there another way to balance the game that doesn't involve players of equal skill? I mean, saying that one side will always win if they don't carry a certain item when two teams of equal skill are playing against each other is the epitome of unbalanced.

I don't know why you have this phobia against outright claiming that you think the game is unbalanced without mines. You've already said it in every roundabout way possible.

[VaNilla]

oh. oh right. you just started talking about unrealistic things completely unprompted for no reason at all.

One of the reasons why I dislike spawning without the full equipment is because there's no real meaningful, or realistic reason for it to be there. I was also not the first person to bring up realism, as you will see below.

It is beyond me how anyone could wrongly interpret my use of 'realistic' in that sentence as 'could happen in real life' when I clearly meant 'meaningful.'

So yes, you are retarded. Carry on.

I wasn't referring to that sentence. You said that "there are a lot of situations where you can safely suicide without any realistic penalty for it, particularly as merc", so I assumed that you believe spawning without an equipment refill is a realistic penalty for it, which is why I brought up that I don't believe it is the realistic option. Why do you say I'm a retard simply because we disagree? That's just sad, especially since both you and Misty were wrong in your deductions of my post in the first place.

Is there another way to balance the game that doesn't involve players of equal skill? I mean, saying that one side will always win if they don't carry a certain item when two teams of equal skill are playing against each other is the epitome of unbalanced.

I don't know why you have this phobia against outright claiming that you think the game is unbalanced without mines. You've already said it in every roundabout way possible.

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with me saying that mines are unbalanced with teams of equal skill, and that they aren't when that is not the case. I know it's stating the obvious, and I realise that you don't balance things on an unbalanced basis (ie. teams of different skill levels), but that wasn't really my point. People can win without mines when they play against lesser skilled players, and for veterans in a game like SvM, that is a frequent occurrence. That is why I brought it up; you suggest that mines aren't as important as I think, but what I think is that given your level of skill (and the skill of many people on this forum for that matter), you haven't played enough people like you to see that this is the case. I highly doubt you've ever removed mines from your equipment selection, or ever would in Project Stealth.

[VenomousNinja]

http://www.cracked.com/funny-3809-internet-argument-techniques/

Thought this would be useful here.

[VaNilla]

That's very true :).

[Spark Mandriller]

I was also not the first person to bring up realism, as you will see below.

yeah you actually kinda were

[Cronky]

I'm just gonna go ahead and rehash/add in:

Changing ammo refilling upon death changes the pace of the game.

While like Spekkio said earlier it seems as if Spies, more so than Mercs, are punished by living longer. Though that whole process gives the real "Importance" of each gadget. If you only have 5 flashbangs, then you aren't going to just spam flashbangs. You'll try to find a "Strategic" time (or just incredibly inappropriate) to drop/shoot one. While the same thought process will go over even if you can refill your gadgets, it'll be to a much lesser "Oh I'm almost out... I better hit up an ammo box soon" sense of thinking. 

Balance for gadgets came from the difference of default lives between the two teams; Spies 5, Mercs 3. Merc's purposefully dying for gadgets gave them an even larger lives discrepancy. Anything after that is based solely on player's individual skill. Which in it of itself is hard to balance because it's two drastically different game types. This isn't trying to balance Spartans Vs Covenant in Halo Reach.

I said it before, even if you only get to refill your ammo X amount of times it'll slow the game down further. By "Forcing" people to go back to ammo boxes periodically instead of just having a set amount of Gadget Y with an objective in mind. Or alternatively it'll encourage aggro even more by giving people more "Ammo" to quickly drop by and get.

Even after I say all this, I still think it COULD work. Just how do you implement it?

Refill upon death just always seems like the right-er option.

There's my current thoughts. ;D

[frvge]

If Mercs only get 2 lives, the extra gadgets comes at a huge increase of risk of getting killed (most likely losing you the match). Ta-da.

[VaNilla]

I was also not the first person to bring up realism, as you will see below.

yeah you actually kinda were

You must have missed the part where I quoted Spekkio talking about realistic penalties.

If Mercs only get 2 lives, the extra gadgets comes at a huge increase of risk of getting killed (most likely losing you the match). Ta-da.

Seems a little unbalanced to me; one neck and you're on your last leg.

[Cronky]

If Mercs only get 2 lives, the extra gadgets comes at a huge increase of risk of getting killed (most likely losing you the match). Ta-da.

Oh frvge. You (along with everyone on this forum) know how to say what I say in many less words.

How do you all do it!?

If Mercs only get 2 lives, the extra gadgets comes at a huge increase of risk of getting killed (most likely losing you the match). Ta-da.

Seems a little unbalanced to me; one neck and you're on your last leg.

I believe that was an example ;)

[Spark Mandriller]

You must have missed the part where I quoted Spekkio talking about realistic penalties.

Realistic penalties have nothing to do with realism. You haven't worked that out yet, even after two people have explained it to you? You're dumber than I thought. :/

[frvge]

Guys, with all the insults, I think this thread is worse than most threads in Off-Topic.

Aka: turn the insults down! I'll get editing and closing otherwise.

[VaNilla]

You must have missed the part where I quoted Spekkio talking about realistic penalties.

Realistic penalties have nothing to do with realism. You haven't worked that out yet, even after two people have explained it to you? You're dumber than I thought. :/

I don't think you know what realistic means. Besides which, I was talking about it in the exact same context as both you and him, so please just be quiet. That bridge is feeling lonely Misty...

[CurdyMilk]

this thread is worse than most threads.

People have become bored so they started arguing about nothing for the past few months just to keep busy.  Only like 2 threads have had any meaning recently.

[Farley4Fan]

frvge is right, and that's pretty bad when you consider how bad most threads are - even worse than some of my threads lmao