New idea for Sticky Cams

[frvge]

No

In my opinion, the things should be like this.

Pros:
- silent chaff
- fired in a straight line
- possibility to use it later (as a distraction)

Cons
- very small radius
- can't use gas if chaff has been used or vice versa
- doesn't affect mine long (4 seconds instead of the normal 20 or something?)
- no effect on mercs???

You can also make your own pros/cons list. Let's see if there are better combinations.

[Gawain]

the idea just sucks, i can see no reason at all to include such a new feature.

[frvge]

Sooooo... because you dont see a reason, it sucks? Ok, you got me there. I thought a duscussion was based on arguments and reasoning. I am apaprently wrong.

[InvisibleMan999]

No

In my opinion, the things should be like this.

Pros:
- silent chaff
- fired in a straight line
- possibility to use it later (as a distraction)

Cons
- very small radius
- can't use gas if chaff has been used or vice versa
- doesn't affect mine long (4 seconds instead of the normal 20 or something?)
- no effect on mercs???

You can also make your own pros/cons list. Let's see if there are better combinations.

Thing is that there are no cons, because it's an added feature to the sticky cam and the sticky cam isn't losing anything it already has, it's just gaining an extra feature.

Basically it's "the item you're going to take anyway is going to be able to do extra stuff", there's no downside to that, at all.

The sticky cam doesn't need any new abilities. Now if you're talking about creating some new device, like the chaff cam, then we have something to talk about. But the sticky is already the most powerful (if not overpowered) gadget in the game. There is no good reason I can think of why we should make it even better.

[frvge]

Well, in the current idea, it is either a chaff-cam or a gas-cam. (per cam fired, viewing is always an option).

Just like a "Spy Trap" can also be a Proximity Detector. The PD also has different pros/cons than the original Spy Trap.
The same goes for the Mine-family.

Instead of expanding the possibilities of a Merc gadget, I am extending that of a Spy gadget.

I am still not sure if it's a good idea, but for the sake of argument (and my actual current PoV), I'll play Devil's Advocate.
So far a good discussion (ignoring Gawains post)

[Gawain]

Sooooo... because you dont see a reason, it sucks? Ok, you got me there. I thought a duscussion was based on arguments and reasoning. I am apaprently wrong.

dude i don't want to offend you, but sometimes you act like an ubi mod (except not banning me).
you didn't tell any reason why you think this feature would improve the gameplay.
you didn't tell any reason why you think this feature would improve the gameplay.
you didn't tell any reason why you think this feature would improve the gameplay.
you didn't tell any reason why you think this feature would improve the gameplay.
you didn't tell any reason why you think this feature would improve the gameplay.
you didn't tell any reason why you think this feature would improve the gameplay.
you didn't tell any reason why you think this feature would improve the gameplay.
you didn't tell any reason why you think this feature would improve the gameplay.
you didn't tell any reason why you think this feature would improve the gameplay.
you didn't tell any reason why you think this feature would improve the gameplay.
you didn't tell any reason why you think this feature would improve the gameplay.
you didn't tell any reason why you think this feature would improve the gameplay.
you didn't tell any reason why you think this feature would improve the gameplay.
 

now u get the point??
don't be an idiot.

[frvge]

I only just made it up and I think it could be useful to disarm mines that aren't accessable by shooting a chaff (or shooting the chaff makes too much noise or whatever).

If you used gas, you can't chaff anymore and vice versa.

I have no idea what it'll do to gameplay, so I am asking your opinion on the pros/cons.

Taken from the first post  ::)

edit: a ubi mod cant take criticism, I can. As long as you provide reasons. Just saying "it sucks" without any backup to that is annoying.

[Farley4Fan]

I personally think that the idea of having a chaff cam is totally useless.  There are usually never any mines that aren't accessible by a chaff.  If it only worked for four seconds and it was unaccessible by a chaff, then it will wear off before you even get to a mine most likely.  If it said "security failure" then it really isn't a silent chaff is it?  And if you add the feature of holding down a button to make the smoke come out, it isn't really negative is it.  It would have a button to deploy all gas at once, and another button to hold down so you can spray the gas at all directions.  Someone said something about having a flash cam, now that would be cool...  Imagine having a flash grenade set up in a corner, and while you are hacking you see that a merc is coming towards that corner.  You would use that flash grenade and totally blind him for a few seconds.  It would effect gameplay, but just a little bit.

[Gawain]

i can't imagine any good use of it; knocking out the merc is the most powerful thing you can do anyway.
chaff nades have their use, but it's really no problem to play without them on most maps. in fact, i can't imagine using your feature in any other way than to save chaffs, but because cams are stronger anyway, there is really no need. why do you want to boost a totally overused gadget by giving it the functionality of another already existing one??

just some examples of probably reasonable gadget changes:
-better snares. add the camosuit activation noise, let them do noises more sparely, add a timer or remote control, etc.
-better hbs: make detected enemies appear on your mate's radar.
-...
what this game needs are not new fancy gadgets, but better balancing of the existing ones.

[frvge]

ok. good points.

Thusfar, I think the pros I mentioned can be countered with:
- just use an enhanced snare + remote hack
- it's got no point to make the cams more powerful/diversive than they already are.

[Spekkio]

Yea, cuz we need to combine two of the arguably most useful gadgets into 1. They weren't good enough taking up two separate slots [/sarcasm]

Furthermore, yes, Gawain, neither Chaff nor Smoke should work through walls/floors/ceilings. The latter is supposedly an engine limitation, but cams don't work through walls so I don't know how legitimate that claim is. I'm not so sure about a radius increase though -- the radius in PT was way too big, and I'm not sure what the difference between the two are. If you fixed the bent laser mines/spy traps, then there would only be a select few mines that would be un-chaffable.

[Farley4Fan]

I think that snares, heartbeat, maybe spy bullets should be given a little boost.  Snares should make noises when the player tells it to, I think Gawain said that, like remote contol.

[Bionic-Blob]

smoke and chaff sprites won't go through walls in UE3.

[B1nArY_001]

Gawain, one does not need to call the OP "stupid" or the poster an idiot to disagree with an idea. Simply disagree and move on. Don't provoke flaming it's not constructive in any way.

But on the actual subject; expanding the spy's gadget functionality could be a good thing, however I'm not sure that a chaff cam would prove all that useful. Being able to cause a security failure on the other side of the map could cause balance issues, perhaps not in all maps, but in some. It would make larger maps off balance as the merc would have to wait for an actual hack before leaving his "post". Most maps provide enough alternative routes that a chaff grenade can be used to cause a failure and then the spy can circle around behind the merc for a hack.

[Gawain]

only bad players get distracted by fake security alerts. good mercs stay close to bottle necks or central points, and rather count on camnet and 120dB+eax *sarcasm*

but there are some rare spots the remote chaff feature could cause some good distraction, club 2nd floor window spytrap/mine for example.

what most people don't get is: 1000 multipurpose gadgets won't make a good game; it's the fine balancing so that games on competitive level don't get repetative. what makes a good game interesting is not rock paper scissors counter system, but giving every counter different skill requirements, success chances and risks.

in my experience, mercs win 70-80% of the time with equally skilled players (except maps like hospital and maybe steel, where run and hit tactics are overpowered). the optimum should be around 50-60% win for the mercs (against a skilled team).
what we should do to really enhance the gadgets is to question what gadgets are underused and why.

i'll begin with
-camo: way too loud activation noise (eax), too easy visible with high resolutions, motion and emf whoring, maps with short-medium lines of view.
this is a really good example that if you change one little thing, you may have to change lots of other stuff. with the fixed sound and forced normal post render mt, camo will get a viable gadget if the normal vision part is done correct. (i'm aware that some good stealth players use camo on some maps, but in most situations it wouldn't make much difference if they didn't use it at all.) with more people using camo, the mercs had to use their laser and emf more, which would result in less sound awareness, etc etc