EMP Grenades

[Gawain]

that's a quite weak use on most maps. that's what spytraps are for.

[Spekkio]

One of the most frustrating things about playing seefoo and vantage, one of the best stealth teams to ever play, is that you would spend the first 30 sec planting all your mines and a few minutes later they all vanished. In short, a team who is being careful will never run into mines.

Gawain hit the nail on the head: mines are generally for players who are moving quickly. Chaff going through walls circumvents this. If you believe that should happen, then fine. All this hooplah about "well it protects against glitch mines" and "what if I'm going slow but decide to quick-throw a chaff to wrap around the wall" is retarded. If there is a glitch mine (of which there are many in CT because the laser for clients "bend"), it should be fixed. If you're going slow, how about creeping to take out the mine, or drawing your gun and firing the chaff?

Furthermore, even if you're using the mines to "slow down stealth spies," the fact that chaff goes through walls means that it doesn't slow them down too much, if at all. Quick throw --> remove. Takes all of 2 seconds.

[Overstatement]

I agree that mines should slow down spies but not because they are hard to disable but are hard to find. You can't chaff something if don't know it's there because you've been running so much. Would you agree that this would work if we continually tweak the sound levels and get rid of EAX?

[Gawain]

spies are supposed to know where stuff is. and if you go around suspicous corners, chaffing the next corner is enough if you keep distance to the walls.

[Spekkio]

EAX is not at fault for spies hearing proxies. With better sound, proxies would probably become even easier to spot. Furthermore, as Gawain said it doesn't take too long to start throwing chaff at doorways /corners whenever you are being chased.

[Overstatement]

Yeah, I get your point. But it is a trade off between speed and stealth since chaff makes noise and you have a limited amount.

[Gawain]

if you're being chased making noise doesn't make a difference.
with chaff going through walls you don't have to make plans and throw a chaff next to the mine, you can react in no time and run around the map way too safely.

[InvisibleMan999]

Furthermore, even if you're using the mines to "slow down stealth spies," the fact that chaff goes through walls means that it doesn't slow them down too much, if at all. Quick throw --> remove. Takes all of 2 seconds.

Well, there are other types of mines that you can place, beyond just the proxy next to a laser.

I mean for instance, getting into greek from the sea tunnel side. You could put a proxy right next to the lasers, that way if someone rolls through they get blown up.

You could also put a poison mine stretching from one of the room's corners.

One forces you to fire a chaff in with your gun, the other can be quick chaffed. And I really don't think it's that bad for the game. I could be wrong, but thus far I haven't really seen any examples of why this makes mines useless. It seems the obvious solution to people quickchaffing mines is to put the mine itself in a place where the spy can't quickchaff it. 

[Gawain]

you can't put proxy and laser mines in places the spy can't quickchaff them (except some climbing passages)

[Farley4Fan]

Doesn't EMP go through walls in real life?  If it does it gets weaker through the wall or something like that.  I think I remember some kind of video I watched where they sent an EMP through a wall and short-circuited a radio.

[Gawain]

sure it does. but it's not emp, it's chaff. and it's not a realistic combat simulation, it's a very unrealistic game.

[Farley4Fan]

But since EMP actually goes through walls, why wouldn't we use EMP?  How about a chaff EMP combination that does the exact same thing as a EMP/Chaff would do.  It works through walls ( explained by EMP ), and the chaff particles are still there for those who want to keep it for balancing issues.  Wouldn't this solve all problems?

[Daybreak]

i'm pretty sure spekkio suggested that on page 3, but it got ignored as it may have been an edit.

[frvge]

I believe I also said that. Or at least I've thought about it.

[Gawain]

But since EMP actually goes through walls, why wouldn't we use EMP?  How about a chaff EMP combination that does the exact same thing as a EMP/Chaff would do.  It works through walls ( explained by EMP ), and the chaff particles are still there for those who want to keep it for balancing issues.  Wouldn't this solve all problems?

NO FFS. it's about the gameplay, not about effects or realism.