Proof of Concept map work Set in Laos

[Farley4Fan]

So the white line with red spots are tunnels and the exits?  Seems like it would be easy to go everywhere from the vents underground.  Maybe make just a couple sets of tunnels with 3 exits a piece?  That way spies can't go from one side of the map to the other underground no problem.  It would mean that spies would never go above ground.

This is just a shot in the dark and i have no idea how this would affect the balance of the map.  I would put a tunnel going from the lab area to the lumber yard and this tunnel would break off and have a couple exits/entrances right where the former oven bunker things used to be.  Maybe another tunnel from the coop spot in the back to the airport.

[Farley4Fan]

This is the second time you've said 3v3.  Is project steath limited to 2 players on each team or is it up to the mapper?  I'm pretty sure it has been 2v2 all the way man.  I'm sure a dev will confirm this.

I see what you mean about escaping especially because it would be hard to do on this map given how open it is.  But don't you think spies would just stay underground too much and not even bother to go up when it's not necessary?  Obviously the map hasn't been played yet and I'm just speculating but you say you want to do it right the first time.  I just see something that could potentially make the map a little boring.

You obviously know the layout more than I do but I'm just offering some constructive criticism.

[frvge]

We are targeting 2 vs 2 gameplay. Maybe other teamsizes will be added in the future, but don't count on 3 vs 3 coming available soon.

[LennardF1989]

Indeed, we can even have more than two teams, even mixed teams (Spy/Merc on one team), so there is no limit in our current framework.

[Farley4Fan]

1 - well fridge says to not count on 3v3 so i wouldnt count on it  :D  I would design for 2v2

2 - i see your point.  I'm not really worried about spies camping and losing, I'm thinking spies might abuse the tunnels and use it to get to point A to point B everywhere they go instead of using the paths above ground.  I think spies might be able to just hop in and just sort of zip from one end of the map to the other without worrying about the merc and hop up and take an objective.  This might be a nice feature if it's balanced but it would be a game breaker if it's not haha  :P

A good way to balance it out would be to make some of the exits well lit and out in the open.  That way a merc can see if a spy has just come out of the ground from a distance.  Put some walls/boxes around the exits so a merc can effectively mine/trap an exit.  Making a spotlight occasionally pass over the exit would make it so spies time their exits kind of like escape from alcatraz (lol) and that would be awesome.

Maybe make these entrances on top of hills or something.  Possibly there could be a hack above ground to open up some of these entrances to the tunnels below.  You could possibly help the balance by exposing some of the tunnels with a storm drain or something.  If the entrances are too easy to get into then the spy would be able to escape way too easily and the merc would have no chance of catching him if he could pop up anywhere around the map.  I'm thinking of ventilation systems in other maps like Factory or Aquarius where the merc could usually find out where a spy was going if he knew the map well.  It seems with this huge tunnel network you are proposing, a merc would have no idea.  That presents an interesting design challenge but I'm sure you can handle it if you take all things into consideration.

Balance in CT/PT maps relies on bottlenecks and distance.  Take this into account when designing the tunnels.  If a spy has to get an objective on the other side of the map and there are 2 on that side, can the merc beat the spy to them if the spy gets underground?  Maybe make some spots in the tunnels that make the spy go slower so you can make sure the merc can.  If the merc can get himself between each objective in time so that he can cover and stop a hacking spy then it's balanced.  Imagine fighting the spy on one side of the map, almost killing him, he gets into the tunnels, and then he beats you by enough time to finish a 10 second terminal on the other side.  That could be really frustrating.  

It seems impossible to know how a map will work without trying it though.  So I don't know how you can get it right the first time like you say you want.  It requires some testing and plays from many people right?  

random idea:  Make a hack so that a conveyor belt comes on (you know, for the coke).  The conveyor belt would provide moving cover, mess with the merc's motion tracking, and create noise on the mercs reticle.  Maybe some hacks that turn off the spotlights.  These hacks could be essential to the balance of this map.  Maybe put them in the corners to force mercs to patrol away from other key areas.

[frvge]

Should be listed on the right hand side, if my memory serves me right.

[frvge]

Nice! I like it.

[frvge]

change AllowD3D10=False to True in Config\UTEngine.ini

I don't know if it also works in-editor.

[I <3 U]

looking good. and everything farley said in his post was right so always bear that in mind when adding new passageways etc. =]

[Farley4Fan]

Those tunnels look awesome man.  Nicely done

BTW: do you think having more tunels but localizing them would make the map more playable for vet's? cuz that's the impression i'm getting.

Yeah that would be best.  But I gotta say that a lot of the big networks of spy passage ways in CT are balanced in some way.  Like on steel squat you can go from building to building or to the crane hack, but the mercs can see them through the storm drains and it actually doesn't have a big effect on the map.  The reason why is because the spy would have to do a lot of work to get to most of the objectives from each exit (Plus mercs can cover almost any objective from any angle, so it matters a little less where the spy pops up, it matters more what the spies do to distract/take out the mercs).  On Museum you can use the ceiling to get to a lot of places, but the way it is balanced is that mercs can see the spies while they are using it.  Plus, you have to move slow and can only get out so many ways.
   
I always wondered why they didn't put a big underground vent network in warehouse, it may help the balance.  Take the underground of Squat and stick it into warehouse.  With only a few ways to come out of the spawn, you should be able to go underneath and pop up from multiple exits around sector one and three.  Imagine a vent that starts in the tunnel (the one that is already underground in Sec 1) and leads underneath the stairs or behind those boxes that cover one of the objectives?

Anyway on topic.  So yeah it's definitely possible to balance a network of vents.  It's just going to take a lot more thinking.  I say there should be two smaller networks on each side with 3 exits each.  Obviously that means there are 6 entrances/exits, but it also means that the spy can only pop up on the same side of the map in 1 of 3 places.

It would make it easier for you to work with and create less problems.

[CurdyMilk]

The tunnels look good.  The only question is...how are the spies or mercs going to get out?  It seems like once the spy is down in a tunnel and a merc sees him, he is going to die for sure without quick escape routes.

[comicsserg]

i thought the tunnels are only  for spies ?

[Farley4Fan]

The tunnels look good.  The only question is...how are the spies or mercs going to get out?  It seems like once the spy is down in a tunnel and a merc sees him, he is going to die for sure without quick escape routes.

Well there are a lot of exits and mercs cannot get in.

[CurdyMilk]

The tunnels look good.  The only question is...how are the spies or mercs going to get out?  It seems like once the spy is down in a tunnel and a merc sees him, he is going to die for sure without quick escape routes.

mercs cannot get in.

Ahh ok  ;)

[frvge]

Lookup CT's dimensions. It's probably 128.