Camnet

[Gawain]

To expand on that, I'd probably lower the camera in digger so that you can't see the floor on the opposite side of digger. But yea, factory doesn't need cameras in A/B/C...the security cams in those corridors and the fact that the mercs usually patrol there are enough to slow down the spies.

->fix list

[Spekkio]

Factory won't be in PS. Just thinking out loud about how the positioning of camnet might avert its imbaness.

[Gawain]

Factory won't be in PS. Just thinking out loud about how the positioning of camnet might avert its imbaness.

if the maps won't get ported you can delete the map specific fixes on the fix list.

back on topic: maps on which camnet is implemented in balanced spots:
-club house
to be continued

[Spekkio]

I already did a few weeks ago.

[SITHDUKE]

Either Camnet needs sorted or we need obstacles every so often to hide behind when we're trying to sneak past it. Too often is camnet in a position where its view is almost entirely unobstructed.

[B1nArY_001]

Being able to look through a passive defense cam and see past its actual detection radius is in no way detracting from the usefulness or purpose of the cameras. It in fact expands their functionality and not only that but it makes them work just like an actual passive video security system. Alarm goes off, you check the camera that was tripped or one close by in the direction a spy would likely be headed.

It would prove quite useful but not overpowered.

The Drone idea would completely ruin stealth, it's ability to explore vents in particular. This ruins any chance of a spy out smarting his opponent through deception or a diversionary tactic to make him think he has gone elsewhere.

[Gawain]

The Drone idea would completely ruin stealth, it's ability to explore vents in particular. This ruins any chance of a spy out smarting his opponent through deception or a diversionary tactic to make him think he has gone elsewhere.

bs. vents are bad for the gameplay anyways as the mercs have no way of seeing into them / interaction. if you are too bad to stay alive without safe zones, either the map is designed badly or you have a serious lack of skill.

[B1nArY_001]

Have you ever played with or against truly good players? I large portion of the tactics they employ involve timing and deception. We are talking about a mod that is much more focused on these aspects of game play than CT. If you don't learn to employ these tactics you stand very little chance at defeating a good team.

[Spekkio]

Being able to look through a passive defense cam and see past its actual detection radius is in no way detracting from the usefulness or purpose of the cameras. It in fact expands their functionality and not only that but it makes them work just like an actual passive video security system. Alarm goes off, you check the camera that was tripped or one close by in the direction a spy would likely be headed.

The latter part is only useful assuming that the camera is the only/last security device in the map. Furthermore, I don't know about you but I don't tend to stay around cameras for long if I trip one.

Almost every security camera points at the floor, and thus sees at its maximum viewing distance anyway. The only exception to this that I can think of are the few cameras that face doorways, but will not go off when you are in the other room (Krauser basement, for example). This makes sense from a balance perspective since you have no way of knowing the camera's position before you open the door.

[B1nArY_001]

These will not be CT maps. How the cameras point in CT has absolutely no bearing on this.

If we build cameras that have a motion sensor on them we can easily show the sensor's detection radius in NV which makes a bit more sense than the camera's actual FoV.

No, I don't usually kickit in front of a cam lol

[InvisibleMan999]

bs. vents are bad for the gameplay anyways as the mercs have no way of seeing into them / interaction. if you are too bad to stay alive without safe zones, either the map is designed badly or you have a serious lack of skill.

Vents aren't so bad really. The clock is against you as a spy so if you want to hide, I don't see a problem with it.

[Gawain]

bs. vents are bad for the gameplay anyways as the mercs have no way of seeing into them / interaction. if you are too bad to stay alive without safe zones, either the map is designed badly or you have a serious lack of skill.

Vents aren't so bad really. The clock is against you as a spy so if you want to hide, I don't see a problem with it.

name one thing vents/safe zones add to the gameplay. with ~3s ss time + flash/smoke there are plenty opportunities to run away/hide for a skilled player on a map with a sufficient amount of obstacles/walls/rooms/shadows. vents are an easy way for map designers to create "stealth" ways or balance merc maps a little bit to the spy side, but surely not the best way. if a merc knows the spies location the merc should be able to chase him (exception: spawn).

[Spekkio]

These will not be CT maps. How the cameras point in CT has absolutely no bearing on this.

Yea, it sorta does. There aren't going to be many wide-open areas where you put a security cam because they simply don't work for the purposes of SvM gameplay. Keep in mind that you would have to put the cam in a place where it can both be close enough to detect a spy AND have a long view to be looked through. Also keep in mind that cam detection radiuses are rather narrow, which is why spies can already pass under security cams that are oriented toward the floor.

I would venture to say that it is physically impossible to orient a camera that would both detect spies at a reasonable range yet allow the mercs to see a broader view, since any camera that is going to detect a spy needs to be relatively close to the ground and oriented toward the ground. If you orient the camera straight, then it will not automatically detect anything because the spy will be beyond the radius once he comes into its viewing angle. If it's oriented toward the ground, then there is no point to look through it because you don't gain any sight advantage.

Kebab's picture example shows exactly that: the person in the viewing angle of the camera, in the SvM environment, would be auto-detected by that camera. Looking through it does not give any sort of sight advantage whatsoever.

Moreover, if/when I make maps (I've been thinking/plotting out one if the game actually comes to fruition), I don't want to have to sit there and orient all the security cameras in a way that gives them a bird's eye view of everything to compensate for the fact that the mercs could look through them. Not to mention that the map I would make in question, which is based off of an actual building, has absolutely no areas where this would be remotely useful. This is what I was talking about when I said that this idea is essentially removing a passive security element from the game.

If you think cams should detect further, great. Then lengthen the distance that trips the security to infinity, and let the map makers orient the security cameras appropriately.

It is much easier from a map design standpoint to put the passive security into the map and then make camnet on top of that. As long as the map makers aren't stupid about it [read: don't do something like put a camnet in a hologram room to instantly let the merc's know the spy's relative position], camnet should be able to be kept under control.

@Gawain: there is nothing wrong with safety vents. Only n00bs run and hide in them for 5 minutes straight.

[Gawain]

Have you ever played with or against truly good players? I large portion of the tactics they employ involve timing and deception. We are talking about a mod that is much more focused on these aspects of game play than CT. If you don't learn to employ these tactics you stand very little chance at defeating a good team.

wtf are you talking about? this has nothing to do with camnet/drones/vents.

[seefoo.]

put camnet in tha vents so you can see spais coming  :D