Project Stealth

Since UT3 is on ps3 360 and Pc. I am just wondering which system will project stealth work on ?

PC, PS3 is sound license is cleared by Epic Games, Xbox 360 if Microsoft allows Mods or if Epic Games passes PS to Microsoft.

So the consoles depend on external factors.

i don't think splitting up the community is a good idea unless console players can play with pc players (which would be kinda lame anyways).

Quote from: Rambo on April 20, 2008, 01:19:40 AM
i don't think splitting up the community is a good idea unless console players can play with pc players (which would be kinda lame anyways).

No it wouldn't it would add more competition to the plate, plus Xbox people have been dying to show how better they are then pc players for years .

Quote from: Rambo on April 20, 2008, 01:19:40 AM
i don't think splitting up the community is a good idea unless console players can play with pc players (which would be kinda lame anyways).

It would add more to the community.  It's basically having 2 communities, as it always has been.  We did  have some news that Xbox 360 would get full mod support - maybe, just maybe...

Quote from: AgentX_003 on April 20, 2008, 01:39:41 AM

Quote from: Rambo on April 20, 2008, 01:19:40 AM
i don't think splitting up the community is a good idea unless console players can play with pc players (which would be kinda lame anyways).

No it wouldn't it would add more competition to the plate, plus Xbox people have been dying to show how better they are then pc players for years .

No, it'd pretty much suck. PC controls are just superior. Playing with an Xbox controller versus a mouse is pretty much suicide.

tbh, it's not just the controls, i can't imagine console players being anywhere near that competitive :P

Quote from: Rambo on April 20, 2008, 11:00:27 AM
tbh, it's not just the controls, i can't imagine console players being anywhere near that competitive :P

you obviously don't know but I on the other hand do, I've talked to many Xbox players , Even TimF and those guys put in 40-72 hrs a week, more then an average pc gamer..

Quote from: Rambo on April 20, 2008, 11:00:27 AM
tbh, it's not just the controls, i can't imagine console players being anywhere near that competitive :P

Try playing a game of halo 2 on xbox, you will get owned.

Console players can be very competitive and fanatical about playing.

It's really just a matter of controls. PC players aren't any more skilled because they have better controls. Bringing a rifle to an archery contest doesn't necessarily mean you've got better aim.

It would be awesome, two communities, more xboxers would migrate to pc aswell, just because of better graphics, free online, better controls etc. If you're a console player, and used to a controller, the controls are just fine for xbox. APART from HOLDING B to dive roll. If you can get PS on anything other than PC i think you should try as hard as you can to do it. Who knows if you win the mod of the year you guys could be rich^^.

When I play SC on xbox I hold my controller in such a weird way compared to when I play others, it just works for the button mapping and I always find its just a matter of preference between pc and xbox gamers, I wouldn't say one is straight off better than the other.

It's all preference.  The good players have been dissapearing on xbox though, but I hear the same is happening on PC too.

Competitiveness?  Come on Rambo, you've just got no idea.  :D

Oh, and Invisible, I play with an xbox controller on CT (for PC), and I don't always necessarily get owned.  I'm still learning the differences and once I do, I won't get owned.

Quote from: Papa Skull on April 20, 2008, 07:44:25 PM
Oh, and Invisible, I play with an xbox controller on CT (for PC), and I don't always necessarily get owned.  I'm still learning the differences and once I do, I won't get owned.

You can beat newbs that way, but you won't be able to beat good players. It's a huge handicap, especially as merc.

Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on April 21, 2008, 01:58:28 AM

Quote from: Papa Skull on April 20, 2008, 07:44:25 PM
Oh, and Invisible, I play with an xbox controller on CT (for PC), and I don't always necessarily get owned.  I'm still learning the differences and once I do, I won't get owned.

You can beat newbs that way, but you won't be able to beat good players. It's a huge handicap, especially as merc.

+1

Quote from: Ion.67 on April 21, 2008, 02:16:35 AM

Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on April 21, 2008, 01:58:28 AM

Quote from: Papa Skull on April 20, 2008, 07:44:25 PM
Oh, and Invisible, I play with an xbox controller on CT (for PC), and I don't always necessarily get owned.  I'm still learning the differences and once I do, I won't get owned.

You can beat newbs that way, but you won't be able to beat good players. It's a huge handicap, especially as merc.

+1

+2  ;D  He's right.  But I really really don't see it as much of a handicap for spy, at all.  For merc, it's a handicap.  But I can definitely aim with an analog stick easily.

Quote from: Papa Skull on April 21, 2008, 02:20:13 AM+2  ;D  He's right.  But I really really don't see it as much of a handicap for spy, at all.

I think I'd make someone watching me play dizzy because I never stop moving the camera...

Speaking of the camera, it's so much easier to use the camera with an analog stick.  Maybe not for aiming, aiming definitely goes to mouse in terms of how easy it is, but controlling cameras I find easier on a controller.

Quote from: Papa Skull on April 21, 2008, 02:20:13 AM

Quote from: Ion.67 on April 21, 2008, 02:16:35 AM

Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on April 21, 2008, 01:58:28 AM

Quote from: Papa Skull on April 20, 2008, 07:44:25 PM
Oh, and Invisible, I play with an xbox controller on CT (for PC), and I don't always necessarily get owned.  I'm still learning the differences and once I do, I won't get owned.

You can beat newbs that way, but you won't be able to beat good players. It's a huge handicap, especially as merc.

+1

+2  ;D  He's right.  But I really really don't see it as much of a handicap for spy, at all.  For merc, it's a handicap.  But I can definitely aim with an analog stick easily.

Controller 4 spy mouse keyboard for merc.  Thats what i do for ct.  You guys obviously never heard of gamebattles.  Because that shit was soo completive, you lose a game to some scrubs they start talking major shit to you and you got to shut them up.  I swear during the summer i put in a ton of hours i mean it ton. There were i say like 5-7 really good teams and then timf who was the best.  100-0 on gamebattles, which is ridicules, that is more impressive then if tiger won all the majors in a year or something.  Just crazy stuff.  But tim had no life (and still doesn't i believe doesn't play video games but does nothing but smoke) The forums were absolutely crazy on gb, people would start shit with people and then when someone ditched some one else to play on a better team it started some major rivalries.  It was just good times.  It sucks because DA killed CT(because we thought da was gona be good) then ct came back a few months later.  People still play on xbox i mean to play but i have to format my hdd.

so we are still very very competitive i would say probably more because pc tactics from what i see are pretty poor and lack disapline.   

Quote from: Papa Skull on April 21, 2008, 05:09:35 AM
Speaking of the camera, it's so much easier to use the camera with an analog stick.  Maybe not for aiming, aiming definitely goes to mouse in terms of how easy it is, but controlling cameras I find easier on a controller.

Yeah aiming is harder on a 360 controller, but it can become greatly accurated once mastered... the hardest (longest) thing is to warm up. It's faster with a mouse/keyboard to do it.

Quote from: T2C LeBron on April 21, 2008, 07:05:26 AM
pc tactics from what i see are pretty poor and lack disapline.   

oO
the fact that controls are harder doesn't make the game better in any way. i also can't imagine the spy controls being anywhere better with a controler. maybe more intuitive, but definitely not quicker or more precise.

Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on April 20, 2008, 11:13:41 AM

Quote from: Rambo on April 20, 2008, 11:00:27 AM
tbh, it's not just the controls, i can't imagine console players being anywhere near that competitive :P

Try playing a game of halo 2 on xbox, you will get owned.

Console players can be very competitive and fanatical about playing.

It's really just a matter of controls. PC players aren't any more skilled because they have better controls. Bringing a rifle to an archery contest doesn't necessarily mean you've got better aim.

Thats cause all the "good" (top 10) halo 2 players glitch

Quote from: Xris on April 21, 2008, 03:22:38 PM

Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on April 20, 2008, 11:13:41 AM

Quote from: Rambo on April 20, 2008, 11:00:27 AM
tbh, it's not just the controls, i can't imagine console players being anywhere near that competitive :P

Try playing a game of halo 2 on xbox, you will get owned.

Console players can be very competitive and fanatical about playing.

It's really just a matter of controls. PC players aren't any more skilled because they have better controls. Bringing a rifle to an archery contest doesn't necessarily mean you've got better aim.

Thats cause all the "good" (top 10) halo 2 players glitch

Just like all the "good" CT players.

I still say halo 2 is worse for glitching, there is a glitch that allows you to burst fire many bullets, instead of just 1.  Some people that are really good can burst fire 10+ bullets in one shot.  It's especially bad if they happen to have the battle rifle, which burst fires 3 bullets in one click, which gives them the ability to easily fire 30+ bullets.  :o

Quote from: Rambo on April 21, 2008, 11:54:50 AM

Quote from: T2C LeBron on April 21, 2008, 07:05:26 AM
pc tactics from what i see are pretty poor and lack disapline.   

oO
the fact that controls are harder doesn't make the game better in any way. i also can't imagine the spy controls being anywhere better with a controler. maybe more intuitive, but definitely not quicker or more precise.

Playing with a controller is quicker when it comes to a more complex control layout scheme [if I said it correctly].

FASA studio tested Shadowrun with PC pro gamers VS 360 Pro gamers and the mouse & keyboard are only the most efficient when the game uses basical controls like Quake 3, but when it comes to a more complexe control scheme... a controller is a lot better.

The 360 players were totally owning the PC gamers, no because they were bad, but it was because they couldn't be as fast as the 360 crew.

I didn't see much studies about this, but I been myself a truly hardcore FPS gamer and highly skilled on Soldier of Fortune 2 before the gold patch, but when I jumped on the xbox... hmmm I can tell you there is a huge gap bewteen the time reaction.

The only true advantages for PC is "easy aiming, faster warm up" and great possibility to "lean" & this cannot be done properly with a 360 or PS3 controller [leaning].

You can always consider my thoughts as an opinion, so feel free to argue.

I can't see why, so I'd like to see more studies into that matter. You'd say that the movement speed (which is limited by the nature of the sticks) is better on the PC, and the same goes with fast pinpointing.
Of course Xbox pros have mastered the 2nd thing, but still it's slower because of limitations by the hardware.
Maybe if you can set the sensitivity, they could be equal for pros. However, a medium PC vs medium console = PC FTW I think.

Quote from: frvge on April 21, 2008, 06:25:04 PM
I can't see why, so I'd like to see more studies into that matter. You'd say that the movement speed (which is limited by the nature of the sticks) is better on the PC, and the same goes with fast pinpointing.
Of course Xbox pros have mastered the 2nd thing, but still it's slower because of limitations by the hardware.
Maybe if you can set the sensitivity, they could be equal for pros. However, a medium PC vs medium console = PC FTW I think.

cam control on xbox was smoother, aswell as camnet. Apart from that PC controls are better (excluding the speed system).

Pretty sure microsoft isnt gonna allow mods.

Quote from: Xris on April 21, 2008, 05:31:52 PM
I still say halo 2 is worse for glitching, there is a glitch that allows you to burst fire many bullets, instead of just 1.  Some people that are really good can burst fire 10+ bullets in one shot.  It's especially bad if they happen to have the battle rifle, which burst fires 3 bullets in one click, which gives them the ability to easily fire 30+ bullets.  :o

Haha, bro, they fire 2 bursts in one shot, not 30, its called a double shot.
Just press RRX real fast, then press YY to cancel the time after the glitch, then RRX again, there you shot 4 bursts in the time it takes to shoot 2.

Its not hard. Its not cheating, everybody can do it.

Quote from: MR.Mic on April 21, 2008, 04:06:06 PM
Just like all the "good" CT players.

yeah it's gonna be so awesome raping all those wanna-be "pros" in ps =)

Quote from: tigaer on April 21, 2008, 07:45:06 PM
Pretty sure microsoft isnt gonna allow mods.

Quote from: Xris on April 21, 2008, 05:31:52 PM
I still say halo 2 is worse for glitching, there is a glitch that allows you to burst fire many bullets, instead of just 1.  Some people that are really good can burst fire 10+ bullets in one shot.  It's especially bad if they happen to have the battle rifle, which burst fires 3 bullets in one click, which gives them the ability to easily fire 30+ bullets.  :o

Haha, bro, they fire 2 bursts in one shot, not 30, its called a double shot.
Just press RRX real fast, then press YY to cancel the time after the glitch, then RRX again, there you shot 4 bursts in the time it takes to shoot 2.

Its not hard. Its not cheating, everybody can do it.

Didnt know you have xbox live? Oh and at papa and t2c add my xbox live : XX FR33M4N XX. Maybe we can play halo 3 (one of the two games i have for x360) sometime.

Quote from: frvge on April 21, 2008, 06:25:04 PM
I can't see why, so I'd like to see more studies into that matter. You'd say that the movement speed (which is limited by the nature of the sticks) is better on the PC, and the same goes with fast pinpointing.
Of course Xbox pros have mastered the 2nd thing, but still it's slower because of limitations by the hardware.
Maybe if you can set the sensitivity, they could be equal for pros. However, a medium PC vs medium console = PC FTW I think.

Depending of the game you can adjust yourself the thumbsticks sensitivity, but you could also learn that even the slowest aim (I mean, to perform a 180 spin) isn't handicaped if he anticipate correctly the situations to face the right direction at the right moment.

I played for months at a 10 sensitivity on Halo 2 & 3 and there is no way I couldn't compete against a PC player.

The movement speed? Did you mean how fast we can move? The PC is limited to a specific movement speed while using the keyboard because it isn't pressure sensitive so you would need another button to switch between "walk slowly" and  "run".

Think about it;
PC
LEFT HAND
4 arrows: 2 to 3 fingers
Space bar - jump: usually your thumb
And well... all the other actions like crouch, reload, etc...

RIGHT HAND
Aiming
Left Click (fire)
Right click (zoom, secondary fire or other)
Sometimes you can also use a 3 button: striking by example or using the zoom here what would be faster for medium to long range fights.
And finally Cycle weapons

360 Controller
LEFT HAND
Left Thumbstick: move slowly, run, crouch [One thumb for 3 actions]
Left Bumper: it can be jump, cycle items, strike, etc.
Left Trigger: it can be Use Items, strike, zoom, etc.
D-pad: switch visions, change weapons, etc.

RIGHT HAND:
Right Trigger: Fire
Right bumper: can be jump, strike, reload, switch weapon or item, et.
A: jump by example
X: usually it's for reloading
Start: can be used to cycle items but this button is unfortunately rarely used
Y: cycle weapons (usually)
B: striking, crouching or any other mid-action

With a 360 controller you have:
Primary Actions
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg386.imageshack.us%2Fimg386%2F1062%2Factionprimairegn9.jpg&hash=af90acb1d963ce81eff2b4ecd4ea38054ca79212)
These actions can be performed at the same time without disturbing the movement of the player, his aiming, etc. So he could move, jump, crouch, strike, shoot, etc.. all at the same time. He is never handicaped.

Secondary Actions
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg376.imageshack.us%2Fimg376%2F1236%2Factionsecondaireoi9.jpg&hash=94d6504e5ffdfd5a661fd03351f5fddfca9e44b9)
This is called secondary actions because while being used, the possible actions aren't optimized for the player. While performing any secondary action, the player is handicaped because he can't aim at the same time by using a "normal" player stance. So you shouldn't have to "fire" with these button because you just couldn't aim so these actions shouldn't be directly related to a "aiming skill".

It can be for throwing grenade, reload, switch weapons or items, etc.

Slowest Actions
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg381.imageshack.us%2Fimg381%2F5415%2Factiontertiairefe5.jpg&hash=340c7a3cf8ef2b187a7c6fb99cafb05e54b11690)
The D-Pad is the slowest action because you have to release your Left Thumbstick so you directly become vulnerable by using it.

As you can see, it's easier to perform multiple actions without disturbing your movements with a 360 controller.

On PC, your left hand is as much dedicated for character movement as it is for all the other actions. Plus, moving your character requires at least two or three fingers. You really can't act as fast as a console player on a complex games.

The PC players are only gaining the full advantage for simple FPS games: aiming, shooting, moving, jumping, crouch. As I said earlier, on a 360 controller, it would be really hard to make "leaning" a possible action. Soldier of Fortune 2 took advantage of it on PC by using Q and E... it's quite tricky to move while doing it as much as performing crouching + moving + leaning + jumping... combos. Unfortunately, leaning isn't required to have a good game.

The other advantage on PC is the double-tap to dodge like in UT3, it's harder to perform with a thumbsticks, but this could easily be countered by using a specific button to dodge.

=================================================

Quote from: tigaer on April 21, 2008, 07:45:06 PM
Pretty sure microsoft isnt gonna allow mods.

Quote from: Xris on April 21, 2008, 05:31:52 PM
I still say halo 2 is worse for glitching, there is a glitch that allows you to burst fire many bullets, instead of just 1.  Some people that are really good can burst fire 10+ bullets in one shot.  It's especially bad if they happen to have the battle rifle, which burst fires 3 bullets in one click, which gives them the ability to easily fire 30+ bullets.  :o

Haha, bro, they fire 2 bursts in one shot, not 30, its called a double shot.
Just press RRX real fast, then press YY to cancel the time after the glitch, then RRX again, there you shot 4 bursts in the time it takes to shoot 2.

Its not hard. Its not cheating, everybody can do it.

Doubleshots at Halo 2 takes skills because in a normal stance you can't aim at the same time that you are performing this action (you need to press X = not aiming with the right thumbstick). By using the "claw" stance you could achieve it, but the 360 controller isn't designed for that.
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.redbullusa.com%2Fmime%2F1162581550830-1962859187%2Fdc_cropped%2FMLGNY-DaveWalsh_PortmannF7596.jpg&hash=2bcafe44896ec8e081b4a36a56e3cd99d1c08b48)

^Thats how I hold my controller playing Sc. My first finger on my right hand covers X, Y and B the thumb covers A and the rest is all normal. SC is, again, the only game i've ever done this for.

Quote from: FR33M4N on April 21, 2008, 08:24:53 PM

Quote from: tigaer on April 21, 2008, 07:45:06 PM
Pretty sure microsoft isnt gonna allow mods.

Quote from: Xris on April 21, 2008, 05:31:52 PM
I still say halo 2 is worse for glitching, there is a glitch that allows you to burst fire many bullets, instead of just 1.  Some people that are really good can burst fire 10+ bullets in one shot.  It's especially bad if they happen to have the battle rifle, which burst fires 3 bullets in one click, which gives them the ability to easily fire 30+ bullets.  :o

Haha, bro, they fire 2 bursts in one shot, not 30, its called a double shot.
Just press RRX real fast, then press YY to cancel the time after the glitch, then RRX again, there you shot 4 bursts in the time it takes to shoot 2.

Its not hard. Its not cheating, everybody can do it.

Didnt know you have xbox live? Oh and at papa and t2c add my xbox live : XX FR33M4N XX. Maybe we can play halo 3 (one of the two games i have for x360) sometime.

Oh yeah, played all the Halos competitively, play H3 right now.
And I played claw in H2, but play BJ in H3.

For Halo 3, the Original Default Control Layout was Bumper-Jumper, but thought it could be a too big change for the Halo 2 fans so they only set bumper Jumper as optional. Claw isn't needed anymore with Bumper-jumper and this layout is fully taking advantage of the 360 controller.

So what about triple-nading on Xbox and the crouch-roll-crouch? :P muahaha.

Quote from: frvge on April 21, 2008, 09:07:10 PM
So what about triple-nading on Xbox and the crouch-roll-crouch? :P muahaha.

??? the what? lol, I'm totally against glitching anyway lol...

nice sig, tigear =)

Quote from: HBW_Hyrage on April 21, 2008, 08:28:32 PM
LEFT HAND
4 arrows: 2 to 3 fingers
Space bar - jump: usually your thumb
And well... all the other actions like crouch, reload, etc...

RIGHT HAND
Aiming
Left Click (fire)
Right click (zoom, secondary fire or other)
Sometimes you can also use a 3 button: striking by example or using the zoom here what would be faster for medium to long range fights.
And finally Cycle weapons

On PC, your left hand is as much dedicated for character movement as it is for all the other actions. Plus, moving your character requires at least two or three fingers. You really can't act as fast as a console player on a complex games.

You are underestimating the mouse: With a good gaming mouse you gain at least 4 extra buttons which you can use with your right hand, not handicapping anything. Look at the razer for instance:

(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dansdata.com%2Fimages%2Fdiamondback%2Fbutton_assign_full.jpg&hash=e3e3f9868895455b0682494a79cad5379d63c93e)

These buttons can usually be bound to any action.

And you are totally right, but video games aren't build on these special mouse. Plus, even if you gain a superb 4 additional buttons, a mouse is extremely pressure sensitive what should make it very hard to handle correctly. By example, my actual mouse a Logitech G5 and my additional button on the side is really hard to use because it requires my thumb... and my thumb is exactly what I use to move my mouse. It hurst my aiming skills, if I ever had somes 8) . I'm sure that you can perform very well with that, unfortunately I don't.
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ferra.ru%2Fimages%2F131%2F131284.jpg&hash=131b50a0f0fbb1300d5e1a0d7440f435876acddf)

To get back to which console version will be best for UT3... here's our best evidence.

Capps: Yeah, we were on the edge of it and decided to push it out and get it done. It just meant a late ship so it's kinda hard to market around that. There weren't a lot of PS3s in the US at that time so our attach rate was pretty decent. It sold better in the first week or two than the PC version sold. We launched a month and a half ago in Europe with the PS3 version and we had a big ship-in of that but I don't know the exact details of that. But I'm really not that disappointed with PS3 sales, close to PC. I'm hoping that the Xbox 360 version beats them both. It's definitely the best version. Playing it, it's so smooth. Playing split-screen which is something I really wish that we could have done on the PS3. That itself is going to sell pretty well. It's a good game for folks who enjoy Halo and those looking for their next sci-fi shooter. I think we'll get some folks there.

http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/868/868001p5.html

I can't play UT3 on PC because they're gay and it doesn't work on my PC :P. So 360 version should be good for me.

I think playing on the ps3 is much easier

How do you figure?  They essentially are the same.  You mean UT3 on PS3 compared to PC?  It's just preference really.

nice sig hyrage. this forum's gonna be so damn hot if all the other people join lolz =)

Quote from: Rambo on April 22, 2008, 02:27:57 PM
nice sig hyrage. this forum's gonna be so damn hot if all the other people join lolz =)

You and Zed inspired me  ;D [mostly Zeb if you read my sig lol] Obey the master... lol Yes Zed I will lollll

Ahh I'm soo late, I was away from the PC all weekend  :'(
Anyways gaming mice ftw  :D

@tigaer my friends bro (with no life) does it very well in that he can repeat it multiple times and get like 10 bullets off in one pull of the trigger (we played on 360 when i saw him do this)

and I will find a sig soon ...

I have been playing a bit of Assassins Creed on PS3 in my spare time, I found the controller layout is really bad on the sixaxis, for instance if you want to run around you need to hold down 2 buttons simultaneously with one hand plus the 2 analog sticks.

They should have used "caps lock" type of button shifting technique like in COD4, rather than "hold and shift" button functions.

Haven't played it on PS3, but on 360 controls are fluid and simple.

I generally like the feel of a controller better than a mouse and keyboard. It's just more relaxed, despite being less precise.

Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on April 26, 2008, 12:19:23 AM
I generally like the feel of a controller better than a mouse and keyboard. It's just more relaxed, despite being less precise.

I totally agree, but a lot of players actually prefer the mouse/keyboard. I admit that console games become more and more popular thought.

But despite of being less precise I just can't agree lol. For sure, a thumbstick is more difficult to master than a mouse, but less accurate? The way I play Halo 2-3 (br, snipe) and Rainbow Six Vegas 2 with a MK.23... I just can't say it's less accurated.

Unfortunately for Console games, we can't deny the fact that a console game also need a great thumbstick setting to feel confortable what not so many dev has been able to achieve. I even try to better set my controller settings on UT3 and I just messed it up lollll.

If PS wins the "Make Something Unreal" Contest, is the PS Dev Team palnning to bring the mod on 360? It would just be funtastic.

Let's first try to win it, before making comments about stuff that most likely wont happen anyway, eh? :P

Quote from: frvge on April 26, 2008, 12:47:18 AM
Let's first try to win it, before making comments about stuff that most likely wont happen anyway, eh? :P

For sure, but I didn't know if you already planned to port it for console later.

Quote from: Hyrage on April 26, 2008, 12:40:22 AM

Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on April 26, 2008, 12:19:23 AM
I generally like the feel of a controller better than a mouse and keyboard. It's just more relaxed, despite being less precise.

I totally agree, but a lot of players actually prefer the mouse/keyboard. I admit that console games become more and more popular thought.

But despite of being less precise I just can't agree lol. For sure, a thumbstick is more difficult to master than a mouse, but less accurate? The way I play Halo 2-3 (br, snipe) and Rainbow Six Vegas 2 with a MK.23... I just can't say it's less accurated.

Unfortunately for Console games, we can't deny the fact that a console game also need a great thumbstick setting to feel confortable what not so many dev has been able to achieve. I even try to better set my controller settings on UT3 and I just messed it up lollll.

If PS wins the "Make Something Unreal" Contest, is the PS Dev Team palnning to bring the mod on 360? It would just be funtastic.

Yea its not less accurate at all, people just think it is because its harder to use. Its not like if you shoot in the same spot with a mouse and a analogue stick they will go in different places, because they wont. It's just harder to master. And yeh good xbox halo 2 players could easily have gg's with good pc halo 2 players. Bringing the mod to other platforms would be like the best thing that could happen to PS. Anyone who disagreees is retarded. Also cross platform gaming Xbox360/WindowsVista is possible too, they've already done it with shadowrun.

Quote from: Hyrage on April 26, 2008, 12:40:22 AM

Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on April 26, 2008, 12:19:23 AM
I generally like the feel of a controller better than a mouse and keyboard. It's just more relaxed, despite being less precise.

I totally agree, but a lot of players actually prefer the mouse/keyboard. I admit that console games become more and more popular thought.

But despite of being less precise I just can't agree lol. For sure, a thumbstick is more difficult to master than a mouse, but less accurate? The way I play Halo 2-3 (br, snipe) and Rainbow Six Vegas 2 with a MK.23... I just can't say it's less accurated.

Unfortunately for Console games, we can't deny the fact that a console game also need a great thumbstick setting to feel confortable what not so many dev has been able to achieve. I even try to better set my controller settings on UT3 and I just messed it up lollll.

If PS wins the "Make Something Unreal" Contest, is the PS Dev Team palnning to bring the mod on 360? It would just be funtastic.

It's a matter of preference. I can't possibly imagine a thumbstick being as accurate as a mouse, but if it's your thing...

Accuracy?  Come on now, it's not like you get less recoil with a mouse.  It's the same, it's just preference.  It's real easy to get used to a mouse though.  It's not that easy to get used to an analog stick.  But once you've mastered the analog stick there isn't much of a difference.

Quote from: Cyntrox on April 26, 2008, 12:57:17 AM

Quote from: Hyrage on April 26, 2008, 12:40:22 AM

Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on April 26, 2008, 12:19:23 AM
I generally like the feel of a controller better than a mouse and keyboard. It's just more relaxed, despite being less precise.

I totally agree, but a lot of players actually prefer the mouse/keyboard. I admit that console games become more and more popular thought.

But despite of being less precise I just can't agree lol. For sure, a thumbstick is more difficult to master than a mouse, but less accurate? The way I play Halo 2-3 (br, snipe) and Rainbow Six Vegas 2 with a MK.23... I just can't say it's less accurated.

Unfortunately for Console games, we can't deny the fact that a console game also need a great thumbstick setting to feel confortable what not so many dev has been able to achieve. I even try to better set my controller settings on UT3 and I just messed it up lollll.

If PS wins the "Make Something Unreal" Contest, is the PS Dev Team palnning to bring the mod on 360? It would just be funtastic.

It's a matter of preference. I can't possibly imagine a thumbstick being as accurate as a mouse, but if it's your thing...

Well, I would like to show you a vid I made years ago. It was on mythica.org but the vid has been removed unfortunately. I played on a high level to Call of Duty 2 (pc), highest level on Soldier of Fortune 2 before the gold patch, high level on Quake 3 years ago, high level on Halo 2 and among the best R6 Vegas 2 players that you could see Online on the X-Box 360. I swear that here is no difference in terms of accuracy between a mouse and a thumbstick. However, it's harder to warm up with a thumbstick if you haven't played for a month and mouse would feel a lot more natural in this case.

The only thing you could need is practice ^^.

One more thing, a lot of the time it's much easier to quickly aim at something with an analog stick because you only have to move it a fraction of an inch.  However, with a mouse it takes much more motion and a lot more muscles, therefore takes a bit longer.  Of course, it all depends on sensitivity, but all it takes for an analog stick is a flick of the thumb compared to a flick of the wrist.

Again, this is all down to preference.  I've been playing off and on with a mouse for years and full time with an analog stick.  I just prefer to use it.  No biggie really.

Quote from: Hyrage on April 26, 2008, 01:19:46 AM
I swear that here is no difference in terms of accuracy between a mouse and a thumbstick.

yes there is. and even if you can reach the same accuracy, it is way slower to reach the same accuracy. i'm also pretty sure that most of the games you've mentionened have some form of slight auto-aim or bigger hitboxes in the console version.

Quote from: Rambo on April 26, 2008, 10:23:13 AM

Quote from: Hyrage on April 26, 2008, 01:19:46 AM
I swear that here is no difference in terms of accuracy between a mouse and a thumbstick.

yes there is. and even if you can reach the same accuracy, it is way slower to reach the same accuracy. i'm also pretty sure that most of the games you've mentionened have some form of slight auto-aim or bigger hitboxes in the console version.

I admire your perseverance, but it's quite annoying. Rainbow Six: Vegas 2 doesn't have anything related to "auto-aim" and huge hitboxes. The hitboxes are really small.

I paid attention to mention 2 games to really show it makes no difference betwwen a game with auto-aim [Halo 2] and a game without auto-aim [R6: V2].

So no it's not slower to reach the same accuracy, it's just a bit longer to warm up.

I wouldn't say the mouse is more or less accurate than it just being plain faster.

ps3 and XBOX support USB mouse/keyboard peripherals now dont they ?

Quote from: Rambo on April 26, 2008, 10:23:13 AM

Quote from: Hyrage on April 26, 2008, 01:19:46 AM
I swear that here is no difference in terms of accuracy between a mouse and a thumbstick.

yes there is. and even if you can reach the same accuracy, it is way slower to reach the same accuracy. i'm also pretty sure that most of the games you've mentionened have some form of slight auto-aim or bigger hitboxes in the console version.

Its doesn't take longer to aim with analogue stick. Have you played halo 2 on the highest sensitivity setting? Jesus its fast, faster than a mouse even. And the slight autoaim is only on COD4 I believe.

Quote from: ray mysertio on April 26, 2008, 11:35:10 AM
ps3 and XBOX support USB mouse/keyboard peripherals now dont they ?

Oh yeh good point, you can buy a mouse and keyboard for Xbox360 now I think.

they're getting closer and closer to a pc. guess why...

duerr i dont knw , kiddie fights lol ?

I bought a bluetooth keyboard for PS3 a few months ago, hoping to play COD4 with it, but you cannot use it as a control input, or play games in the pc way.

So far I just use it to type my psn account passwords... expensive way to type just 10 characters!

I dont know why sony didnt make keyboard as an alternative control input.

Quote from: FR33M4N on April 26, 2008, 11:42:16 AM

Quote from: ray mysertio on April 26, 2008, 11:35:10 AM
ps3 and XBOX support USB mouse/keyboard peripherals now dont they ?

Oh yeh good point, you can buy a mouse and keyboard for Xbox360 now I think.

You can't, this feature is only available for PS3. Epic already answer to something concerning the keyboard/ mouse on the 360 with UT3... this is something you will not see. The 360 isn't a PC and the Game Developers do not want the consoles to become PCs.

What Theo said, this is also the case for 360, the keyboard is only used to type stuff.

Quote from: Hyrage on April 26, 2008, 04:57:39 PM

Quote from: FR33M4N on April 26, 2008, 11:42:16 AM

Quote from: ray mysertio on April 26, 2008, 11:35:10 AM
ps3 and XBOX support USB mouse/keyboard peripherals now dont they ?

Oh yeh good point, you can buy a mouse and keyboard for Xbox360 now I think.

You can't, this feature is only available for PS3. Epic already answer to something concerning the keyboard/ mouse on the 360 with UT3... this is something you will not see. The 360 isn't a PC and the Game Developers do not want the consoles to become PCs.

What Theo said, this is also the case for 360, the keyboard is only used to type stuff.

Ah then back to the controllers. ;D

Just reading this thread I see alot of people arguing how much better console controllers are. Faster reaction whatever. I think almost everyone would agree that you can't beat a mouse keyboard for a FPS game. If a controller is so much better why do some console FPS games have auto aim. I know if I could play against a 360 player in an FPS without any auto aim I would win as would most here. A controller is not faster than a good gaming mouse. Not with any degree of accuracy.

Sure there are many uses for a controller. A few have already said it:Spy - Controller, Merc - mouse Keyboard. For a third person view or racing games I don't think you can beat a controller but a mouse keyboard setup is close. Like was mentioned, if controllers were the be all and end all then why would Microshaft sell a mouse and keyboard for the 360.

I hope the Mod team doesn't think too much about consoles as I think they have a great thjing going as it sits now. Too many PC games are the result of a shitty port from consoles and the quality suffers. SC Double Agent is one that comes to mind right off. Again like was mentioned, the only way a console port would help is if the two could play together (PC and console).

Quote from: Bubbaganoosh on April 26, 2008, 07:54:48 PM
Just reading this thread I see alot of people arguing how much better console controllers are. Faster reaction whatever. I think almost everyone would agree that you can't beat a mouse keyboard for a FPS game. If a controller is so much better why do some console FPS games have auto aim. I know if I could play against a 360 player in an FPS without any auto aim I would win as would most here. A controller is not faster than a good gaming mouse. Not with any degree of accuracy.

Sure there are many uses for a controller. A few have already said it:Spy - Controller, Merc - mouse Keyboard. For a third person view or racing games I don't think you can beat a controller but a mouse keyboard setup is close. Like was mentioned, if controllers were the be all and end all then why would Microshaft sell a mouse and keyboard for the 360.

I hope the Mod team doesn't think too much about consoles as I think they have a great thjing going as it sits now. Too many PC games are the result of a shitty port from consoles and the quality suffers. SC Double Agent is one that comes to mind right off. Again like was mentioned, the only way a console port would help is if the two could play together (PC and console).

The only thing that matter is the user, not the tool and how many times have you played with a 360 controller at a FPS?

I didn't find the original text, but here is something interesting.
Click Here (http://www.dailygame.net/news/archives/005635.php)

Quote from: MR.Mic on April 26, 2008, 10:44:22 AM
I wouldn't say the mouse is more or less accurate than it just being plain faster.

Ummm, you can change sensitivity to the controller.  Ever play Halo 2/Halo 3/ANY GAME on console with highest sensitivity?  It's as fast as the mouse can go.

Quote from: Papa Skull on April 26, 2008, 08:36:22 PM

Quote from: MR.Mic on April 26, 2008, 10:44:22 AM
I wouldn't say the mouse is more or less accurate than it just being plain faster.

Ummm, you can change sensitivity to the controller.  Ever play Halo 2/Halo 3/ANY GAME on console with highest sensitivity?  It's as fast as the mouse can go.

I seriously doubt that. Show me a video of the highest sensitivity.

Lawlz.  Shows how much you know about consoles, really.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7dtISgOErA&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7dtISgOErA&feature=related)

Yeah, I guess we console players all play slowly and miss every shot eh?  That guy in the video above isn't even that great tbh...  Plus, he said he did all that in less than an hour - which may or may not be true.

Quote from: Cyntrox on April 26, 2008, 08:41:17 PM

Quote from: Papa Skull on April 26, 2008, 08:36:22 PM

Quote from: MR.Mic on April 26, 2008, 10:44:22 AM
I wouldn't say the mouse is more or less accurate than it just being plain faster.

Ummm, you can change sensitivity to the controller.  Ever play Halo 2/Halo 3/ANY GAME on console with highest sensitivity?  It's as fast as the mouse can go.

I seriously doubt that. Show me a video of the highest sensitivity.

I was playing for months at 10 sensitivity on Halo 2 & 3... it's damn! fast. Nice vid! I do not even have to use my capture card :D thumbs up ^^, but Halo 3 10 sensitivity is faster

Quote from: Cyntrox on April 26, 2008, 08:41:17 PM

Quote from: Papa Skull on April 26, 2008, 08:36:22 PM

Quote from: MR.Mic on April 26, 2008, 10:44:22 AM
I wouldn't say the mouse is more or less accurate than it just being plain faster.

Ummm, you can change sensitivity to the controller.  Ever play Halo 2/Halo 3/ANY GAME on console with highest sensitivity?  It's as fast as the mouse can go.

I seriously doubt that. Show me a video of the highest sensitivity.

Halo 2 highest sensitivity, is insanely fast. Its faster than the mouse speed i have for any fps..

Quote from: Hyrage on April 26, 2008, 09:13:51 PM

Quote from: Cyntrox on April 26, 2008, 08:41:17 PM

Quote from: Papa Skull on April 26, 2008, 08:36:22 PM

Quote from: MR.Mic on April 26, 2008, 10:44:22 AM
I wouldn't say the mouse is more or less accurate than it just being plain faster.

Ummm, you can change sensitivity to the controller.  Ever play Halo 2/Halo 3/ANY GAME on console with highest sensitivity?  It's as fast as the mouse can go.

I seriously doubt that. Show me a video of the highest sensitivity.

I was playing for months at 10 sensitivity on Halo 2 & 3... it's damn! fast. Nice vid! I do not even have to use my capture card :D thumbs up ^^, but Halo 3 10 sensitivity is faster

I think i used to pwn halo 2 noobs with a sensitivity of 7:p.

Quote from: FR33M4N on April 26, 2008, 09:44:14 PM

Quote from: Hyrage on April 26, 2008, 09:13:51 PM

Quote from: Cyntrox on April 26, 2008, 08:41:17 PM

Quote from: Papa Skull on April 26, 2008, 08:36:22 PM

Quote from: MR.Mic on April 26, 2008, 10:44:22 AM
I wouldn't say the mouse is more or less accurate than it just being plain faster.

Ummm, you can change sensitivity to the controller.  Ever play Halo 2/Halo 3/ANY GAME on console with highest sensitivity?  It's as fast as the mouse can go.

I seriously doubt that. Show me a video of the highest sensitivity.

I was playing for months at 10 sensitivity on Halo 2 & 3... it's damn! fast. Nice vid! I do not even have to use my capture card :D thumbs up ^^, but Halo 3 10 sensitivity is faster

I think i used to pwn halo 2 noobs with a sensitivity of 7:p.

7 is the best overall sensitivity, it's enough fast to avoid the annoying sticky auto-aim while quick-scoping (and above 7). Sniping at 7 and more is deadly, but it requires some skills.

I'd still take a mouse over a console stick anyday for pure speed *AND* accuracy. There's just a greater range of motion you can do with a mouse.

What does mouse over control have to do with the game being on ps3 or pc or 360
either way you play the game

k lets not make it an xbox vs pc thread that was done long ago in the Ubi days when the forums weren't over  powertripping moderators ,  how about answering my question to wards the analogstick =/.

Oh come on invisible.  The only thing Mouse has over analog sticks for sure is how easy they are to get used to and learn.  The rest is preference and skill level and the way the game's shooting/aiming is designed.  There is a SLIGHT accuracy advantage for mouse, but not a gigantic one like others say.  Speed is the same, just up/down the sensitivity in every single game's options menu.

And I believe your question was answered agent. Lemme dubba check.

EDIT:  I found no question.

fact is, the faster you make your analogue stick, the less accurate it becomes. this effect is much stronger on a analogue stick than on a mouse.

Quote from: Rambo on April 27, 2008, 12:41:38 PM
fact is, the faster you make your analogue stick, the less accurate it becomes. this effect is much stronger on a analogue stick than on a mouse.

heeeeeee maybe your are the one who needs a few mathematic courses or philosophy to learn the meanings...
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg169.imageshack.us%2Fimg169%2F1750%2Fcontrolsxpmg2.jpg&hash=290119309b422a257f745fdf2cbb786737f9778f)
The faster your sensitivity is, the more accurate it becomes and this is only related to skills.
If you can't play on the highest sensitivity, do not cry that it's not accurate. Only the speed is changing, and the same thing happens with your mouse.

The lower you player on a controller, your maximum speed cannot go higher.
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg160.imageshack.us%2Fimg160%2F9140%2Fcontrolsxp2st6.jpg&hash=cbbf8f67e1b161e60a5002fbc575044f35ce0e3c)
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg111.imageshack.us%2Fimg111%2F6770%2Fcontrolsxp3ok1.jpg&hash=7180a8d62c68cb9d1e345d9d5aacc42b8d1625ce)

You have to use the thumbtick slower at 10 to reach the same distance you would... by pushing the thumbstick at his maximum on the edge on a 2 sensitivity. It's definately more accurate and you have to handle it.

HAHA you used the same font in your sig that you did in those pics.  I don't know why that's funny, but it kind of is.

But anyways Hyrage is right, you can't relate accuracy with the controller, it's skill.

Quote from: Papa Skull on April 27, 2008, 06:24:45 PM
HAHA you used the same font in your sig that you did in those pics.  I don't know why that's funny, but it kind of is.

But anyways Hyrage is right, you can't relate accuracy with the controller, it's skill.

lol I did it fast and I didn't remove the font in my photoshop lol.... Oups  :-[

But Rambo was right if he meant: it's more difficult to use a thumbstick when you higher the sensitivity rather than... it's less accurate. This is why controller require skills, but the same thing goes for a mouse.

that's only true if you can't aim precisely enough (per pixel/head size/whatever) on the slow settings. this would be like playing with a 5dpi mouse. but once you go from 800dpi to 2000dpi, it doesn't become more accurate, it only becomes faster due to smaller mouse movements, and smaller mistakes in the mouse movement count. but obviously the controller sucks more than i expected...

Quote from: Rambo on April 27, 2008, 07:04:05 PM
that's only true if you can't aim precisely enough (per pixel/head size/whatever) on the slow settings. this would be like playing with a 5dpi mouse. but once you go from 800dpi to 2000dpi, it doesn't become more accurate, it only becomes faster due to smaller mouse movements, and smaller mistakes in the mouse movement count. but obviously the controller sucks more than i expected...

But I also expect that you probably don't play that much with it too. A lot of people prefer the mouse/keyboard, but the Consoles are taking actually a huge wave of popularity over the PC, it tends to become more a preference than a fact.

Quote from: Rambo on April 27, 2008, 07:04:05 PM
that's only true if you can't aim precisely enough (per pixel/head size/whatever) on the slow settings. this would be like playing with a 5dpi mouse. but once you go from 800dpi to 2000dpi, it doesn't become more accurate, it only becomes faster due to smaller mouse movements, and smaller mistakes in the mouse movement count. but obviously the controller sucks more than i expected...

You EXPECT too much.  You know what, go play with a controller for years like you have with a keyboard then tell me how much it ZOMG SUCKZORZ!!  I've played with a gamepad for years and I find nothing wrong with it other than the fact that it can be tough to warmup if you haven't played for a month or two.  It's preference, for the last time.

well hopefully it will be possible to play vs console players some day so we can settle this once and for all.

Quote from: Rambo on April 27, 2008, 08:09:17 PM
well hopefully it will be possible to play vs console players some day so we can settle this once and for all.

1. Wrong... it's just preferences...
2. Too late, already tested with Shadowrun, but I guess you do not play this game anyway.

Quote from: Rambo on April 27, 2008, 08:09:17 PM
well hopefully it will be possible to play vs console players some day so we can settle this once and for all.

We will be.  There are a few peeps from console who'd buy a PC so they can play this.  Plus, it will support gamepads, because well UE3 does.  What would be nice is to have a bunch of console/gamepad users like Hyrage and myself to be gamepad controls designers.

Yeah, but actually, I do not appreciate the Control Settings from UT3 [also seems to be the same from GoW PC], I'll have to tweak it later... no time for that now. Maybe we will be able to convert Rambo ^^.

Ah, I doubt it.  There's no point anyways.

Can't you customize your gamepad settings on UT3?  If not, that sucks, but I'm sure it's possible.  But that doesn't matter because it's UT3 and not PS.  If the devs are nice they'll let us customize our own.  What I was suggesting was making people like you, me, xris, Tidenburg(?), and all others that use gamepads be the people who decide on what the default control scheme is.

isn't shadowrun a RPG? tbh, i've never heard of it before. just play ps with your xbox controller and show me how hard u pwn with it XD

Quote from: Rambo on April 28, 2008, 12:37:02 AM
isn't shadowrun a RPG? tbh, i've never heard of it before. just play ps with your xbox controller and show me how hard u pwn with it XD

wow...

Shadowrun is a FPS based on the old RPG game universe... and, well, the table game.

It's a FPS
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamasutra.com%2Ffeatures%2F20070321%2Fshadowrun.jpg&hash=c3bcacf894bab827b91bb0f402f701c4ed4ccb9a)

But also using magic + complex control sheme + gameplays + strategies + combos
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.st-firstfleet.com%2Fblog%2Fimages%2F10-shadowrun.gif&hash=b9404b16be2967c9f01adb09845dfce26db1b5c8)

Controller for the win.

Eh, it's not really controller ftw, or mouse ftw.  They both win.

The control scheme on shadowrun was pretty horrible. Granted I only played the demo, but I assumed the controls were much the same. It took forever to switch weapons and use abilities. It was one of those games that really should have been on a PC, because you seriously needed more keys in that game.

Most FPS work fine on console, but Shadowrun was... urgg... 

Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on April 28, 2008, 02:23:31 AM
The control scheme on shadowrun was pretty horrible. Granted I only played the demo, but I assumed the controls were much the same. It took forever to switch weapons and use abilities. It was one of those games that really should have been on a PC, because you seriously needed more keys in that game.

Most FPS work fine on console, but Shadowrun was... urgg... 

The controls were fine, what was hard is to switch your items and remember what is where LOLLLLL. One of the rare different game thatfinally needs 4 or 5 hours to handle the controls when you play it the first time, unfortunately, his Visual Design wasn't enough happealing.

To bad
PS for the win

For all of you people who think that analog sticks can beat a mouse, try playing a real time strategy game like Starcraft and trying to be fast with an analog stick. Honestly you'll probably have most of your trouble even selecting your units on screen.  You'll see just how the latent inaccuracy of a controller makes the game super difficult.

Mice are faster and more accurate than analog sticks. It's just a fact.

It's people claiming that controllers are just as good as mice that makes Xbox users seem ridiculous n00bs in the eyes of some PC users. Trust me, controller versus mouse. You'd get owned. Seriously.

Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on April 28, 2008, 02:38:09 AM
For all of you people who think that analog sticks can beat a mouse, try playing a real time strategy game like Starcraft and trying to be fast with an analog stick. Honestly you'll probably have most of your trouble even selecting your units on screen.  You'll see just how the latent inaccuracy of a controller makes the game super difficult.

Mice are faster and more accurate than analog sticks. It's just a fact.

It's people claiming that controllers are just as good as mice that makes Xbox users seem ridiculous n00bs in the eyes of some PC users. Trust me, controller versus mouse. You'd get owned. Seriously.

This is the most ridiculous post ever, half of the time when you play a RTS you use exclusively all the 1001 shortcuts on the Keyboard, not the mouse...

RTS is basically designed exclusively for KEYBOARD & MOUSE and it's actually not an action/ shooter game.
ANyway you are totally right - Keyboard + mouse = RTS.. even if command & conquer 3 on 360 rocks!

By the simple fact that it is harder to master a 360 controller, the only guys who can be called noob are the Pro PC guys claiming that a Mouse + Keyboard is godly while it's so friendly and easy to use. Isn't a real man supposed to enjoy real challenges!!? Using a controller requires more skills and the Console Pro Gamers have truly something to be proud of.

Thumbs up

You can't use RTS's as a point, they are designed for Keyboard + Mouse.  It's like saying that PC's suck becasue they get a lot of ports and a lot of things aren't strictly designed for it.  Kind of a stretch but you get what I mean.]

Once you master the controller, there really isn't THAT much of a difference between using a mouse or controller.  There just isn't.  The problem is that a lot of people who play console haven't mastered using sticks yet so PC players get the idea that they are extremely akward or stupid and hard to use.  They can be hard to use for newcomers, but once you are used to using them it's not a problem.

And what's wrong with a challenge?  I love challenges and I love tough ones.  I hate how people who only use mouse/keyboard think that it's impossible-and rather it can be smooth for the vets of gamepads.

Anyway in the later months, when I'll have a bit more time... I'll make a video showing UT3 played with a Controller VS with a Keyboard + mouse. It looks very different to me, but the final results are pretty much the same.

A real man is supposed to master his craft in whatever way possible (while showing some morale) in order to excel from others.

Mouse + Keyboard pwns Controller = FACT

Quote from: Westfall on April 28, 2008, 07:22:50 AM
A real man is supposed to master his craft in whatever way possible (while showing some morale) in order to excel from others.

Mouse + Keyboard pwns Controller = FACT

Really? Wait... where is this fact?
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.siliconvalleywatcher.com%2Fmt%2Farchives%2FBlind%2520Links.jpg&hash=45b891ab61f3d244b2cf99b305515ea6c8da76cb)

Sorry,  it explodes  ::)
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cracked.com%2Fphpimages%2Fcraptions%2F9%2F659.jpg&hash=23dea34d97887ba8d549fcd25443ac0e8868657f)

Fact brought to you by common sense.

Quote from: Hyrage on April 28, 2008, 04:28:31 AMBy the simple fact that it is harder to master a 360 controller, the only guys who can be called noob are the Pro PC guys claiming that a Mouse + Keyboard is godly while it's so friendly and easy to use. Isn't a real man supposed to enjoy real challenges!!? Using a controller requires more skills and the Console Pro Gamers have truly something to be proud of.

Thumbs up

Now THIS is the most ridiculous statement ever.

1) I don't play a game so that I can spend all my time mastering the controls. If that's your idea of a deep game, go play Dance Dance Revolution.
2) What about the female gamers?

Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on April 28, 2008, 02:38:09 AM
For all of you people who think that analog sticks can beat a mouse, try playing a real time strategy game like Starcraft and trying to be fast with an analog stick. Honestly you'll probably have most of your trouble even selecting your units on screen.  You'll see just how the latent inaccuracy of a controller makes the game super difficult.

Mice are faster and more accurate than analog sticks. It's just a fact.

It's people claiming that controllers are just as good as mice that makes Xbox users seem ridiculous n00bs in the eyes of some PC users. Trust me, controller versus mouse. You'd get owned. Seriously.

amen to that.
it's not that you can't reach decent speed and accuracy with a controller, but you can't reach the same maxium level you can reach with a mouse.

Quote from: Hyrage on April 28, 2008, 04:28:31 AM
even if command & conquer 3 on 360 rocks!

By the simple fact that it is harder to master a 360 controller, the only guys who can be called noob are the Pro PC guys claiming that a Mouse + Keyboard is godly while it's so friendly and easy to use. Isn't a real man supposed to enjoy real challenges!!? Using a controller requires more skills and the Console Pro Gamers have truly something to be proud of.

cnc3 really sucks hard on pc, and it sucks even more on console.
the challenge in a game shouldn't be mastering the controls, but mastering the game...

Quote from: Cyntrox on April 28, 2008, 08:18:06 AM
I don't play a game so that I can spend all my time mastering the controls. If that's your idea of a deep game, go play Dance Dance Revolution.

pwned.

Quote from: Rambo on April 28, 2008, 01:41:32 PM

Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on April 28, 2008, 02:38:09 AM
For all of you people who think that analog sticks can beat a mouse, try playing a real time strategy game like Starcraft and trying to be fast with an analog stick. Honestly you'll probably have most of your trouble even selecting your units on screen.  You'll see just how the latent inaccuracy of a controller makes the game super difficult.

Mice are faster and more accurate than analog sticks. It's just a fact.

It's people claiming that controllers are just as good as mice that makes Xbox users seem ridiculous n00bs in the eyes of some PC users. Trust me, controller versus mouse. You'd get owned. Seriously.

amen to that.
it's not that you can't reach decent speed and accuracy with a controller, but you can't reach the same maxium level you can reach with a mouse.

Quote from: Hyrage on April 28, 2008, 04:28:31 AM
even if command & conquer 3 on 360 rocks!

By the simple fact that it is harder to master a 360 controller, the only guys who can be called noob are the Pro PC guys claiming that a Mouse + Keyboard is godly while it's so friendly and easy to use. Isn't a real man supposed to enjoy real challenges!!? Using a controller requires more skills and the Console Pro Gamers have truly something to be proud of.

cnc3 really sucks hard on pc, and it sucks even more on console.
the challenge in a game shouldn't be mastering the controls, but mastering the game...

Quote from: Cyntrox on April 28, 2008, 08:18:06 AM
I don't play a game so that I can spend all my time mastering the controls. If that's your idea of a deep game, go play Dance Dance Revolution.

pwned.

Hmm seriously, I don't totally understand the sense of this statement. I mean, I need a translator. Did you mean: "I don't play a game to the controls in other words?".

If your answer is yes and you also added that I should play DDR, damn this is a good game. Any game design is based on the challenge behind the controls and any Singleplayer game progression is also based on that... well except Myst and stuff like that that are based on the puzzle progression or strange stuff.

So I assume you do not like games.
RTS isn't played mostly with a mouse, but with a Keyboard for the shortcuts. A thumbsticks can go really quick, but the controller will never beat a keyboard for a RTS [forget the mouse lol, the thumbstick can do that to... you just lack skills for it it seems...). If you both didn't see it, there are not that RTS games on the 360. Why? The 360 controller is mostly designed for FPS games. Why? Because Microsoft decided it and prefers to keep the RTS games on PC.

We are comparing the accuray of the mouse VS thumbstick for action games and you are giving us the argument that a keyboard is owning the controller AWESOME, but it's certainly not the mouse that makes the difference here... or maybe you need to play with Pros to understand the point?

THe only valuable answer can only be, it's a preference. However, if you think that keyboard + mouse is superior it's totally fine to me... live in your dream folks.

Quote from: Papa Skull on April 28, 2008, 05:52:16 AM
You can't use RTS's as a point, they are designed for Keyboard + Mouse.  It's like saying that PC's suck becasue they get a lot of ports and a lot of things aren't strictly designed for it.  Kind of a stretch but you get what I mean.]

Yeah, it's true hotkeys play a big role, but I"m not really talking about those, I'm talking about just doing the mouse cursor work. See how fast you can select stuff and just generally play the game. It's just a showcase of how much slower a controller is at aiming accurately than a mouse.

Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on April 28, 2008, 05:50:30 PM

Quote from: Papa Skull on April 28, 2008, 05:52:16 AM
You can't use RTS's as a point, they are designed for Keyboard + Mouse.  It's like saying that PC's suck becasue they get a lot of ports and a lot of things aren't strictly designed for it.  Kind of a stretch but you get what I mean.]

Yeah, it's true hotkeys play a big role, but I"m not really talking about those, I'm talking about just doing the mouse cursor work. See how fast you can select stuff and just generally play the game. It's just a showcase of how much slower a controller is at aiming accurately than a mouse.

I tested Command and Conquer 3, favorite game of my firend) and I can be as fast as I am with a mouse. It took me times to adjust myself to the sensitivity but it's really not a big deal once you handle the dead zone of the game (because it's not halo lol). But you are totally right, I would strongly prefer a Keyborad + mouse for an RTS.

I much more appreciate a Controller for a FPS thought  8) . Plus, the mouse isn't giving any vibration, what I find totally anti-immersive nowadays and I thank any controller dev for this feature, but a mouse having Vibration would totally sucks  :-\ .

Quote from: Hyrage on April 28, 2008, 05:58:58 PM

Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on April 28, 2008, 05:50:30 PM

Quote from: Papa Skull on April 28, 2008, 05:52:16 AM
You can't use RTS's as a point, they are designed for Keyboard + Mouse.  It's like saying that PC's suck becasue they get a lot of ports and a lot of things aren't strictly designed for it.  Kind of a stretch but you get what I mean.]

Yeah, it's true hotkeys play a big role, but I"m not really talking about those, I'm talking about just doing the mouse cursor work. See how fast you can select stuff and just generally play the game. It's just a showcase of how much slower a controller is at aiming accurately than a mouse.

I tested Command and Conquer 3, favorite game of my firend) and I can be as fast as I am with a mouse. It took me times to adjust myself to the sensitivity but it's really not a big deal once you handle the dead zone of the game (because it's not halo lol). But you are totally right, I would strongly prefer a Keyborad + mouse for an RTS.

I much more appreciate a Controller for a FPS thought  8) . Plus, the mouse isn't giving any vibration, what I find totally anti-immersive nowadays and I thank any controller dev for this feature, but a mouse having Vibration would totally sucks  :-\ .

But, you can't reach the speed. Under no circumstance can you spin around in a 180 in any game, and still expect to be able to aim on a controller.

Quote from: Ion.67 on April 28, 2008, 06:22:43 PM

Quote from: Hyrage on April 28, 2008, 05:58:58 PM

Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on April 28, 2008, 05:50:30 PM

Quote from: Papa Skull on April 28, 2008, 05:52:16 AM
You can't use RTS's as a point, they are designed for Keyboard + Mouse.  It's like saying that PC's suck becasue they get a lot of ports and a lot of things aren't strictly designed for it.  Kind of a stretch but you get what I mean.]

Yeah, it's true hotkeys play a big role, but I"m not really talking about those, I'm talking about just doing the mouse cursor work. See how fast you can select stuff and just generally play the game. It's just a showcase of how much slower a controller is at aiming accurately than a mouse.

I tested Command and Conquer 3, favorite game of my firend) and I can be as fast as I am with a mouse. It took me times to adjust myself to the sensitivity but it's really not a big deal once you handle the dead zone of the game (because it's not halo lol). But you are totally right, I would strongly prefer a Keyborad + mouse for an RTS.

I much more appreciate a Controller for a FPS thought  8) . Plus, the mouse isn't giving any vibration, what I find totally anti-immersive nowadays and I thank any controller dev for this feature, but a mouse having Vibration would totally sucks  :-\ .

But, you can't reach the speed. Under no circumstance can you spin around in a 180 in any game, and still expect to be able to aim on a controller.

Wait... have you played Call of Duty 4 and Halo 3 at the max sensitivity??? It's extra fast and the game seems to be on crack or something.

If the max sensitivity seems to be on crack, then it does not compare to the smoothness and quickness of the mouse...which isn't on crack but is rather natural.

Yeah, but you can spin around that fast?!!?! But, once you spin around, you can't shoot for shit because the controller is on crack.

Quote from: Ion.67 on April 28, 2008, 06:36:34 PM
Yeah, but you can spin around that fast?!!?! But, once you spin around, you can't shoot for shit because the controller is on crack.

I can lol... But as I said I'll make a video later about that. Trsut me lol... it is really quick and accurate ^^

Quote from: Westfall on April 28, 2008, 08:11:00 AM
Fact brought to you by common sense.

QFT.

Whenever people get into a keyboard + mouse vs. gamepad discussion, I like to post Quake 3 frag videos.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3520996425810543110 - Get Quaked 3

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4392915597663174837 - Annihilation, by own-age

Quote from: MR.Mic on April 28, 2008, 08:43:37 PM
Whenever people get into a keyboard + mouse vs. gamepad discussion, I like to post Quake 3 frag videos.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3520996425810543110 - Get Quaked 3

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4392915597663174837 - Annihilation, by own-age

Yeah I saw these video years ago and they ar just awseome! I played at this level years ago... but I had no life and I was younger lol.

These guys rock!

Thx for the vidz Mr.Mic good memories, but all this is achievable via a Controller.

Quake 3 Arena isn't on X-Box Live yet, but its coming soon!

Quote from: Hyrage on April 28, 2008, 08:53:16 PM
but all this is achievable via a Controller.

Watch 12:45 of get quaked 3

Quote from: MR.Mic on April 28, 2008, 08:55:45 PM

Quote from: Hyrage on April 28, 2008, 08:53:16 PM
but all this is achievable via a Controller.

Watch 12:45 of get quaked 3

I guess you are talking about the 105 degree spin? Play at 10, you'll see it's really the same lol, but it was an awesome shot.
Take a look at these :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAzo4iYu1R8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAzo4iYu1R8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhGY9dkYwtY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhGY9dkYwtY)

The huge difference between Quake 3 and Halo 2 is... the headshots. For sure Quake 3 is faster, but the hitboxe is huge... Halo 2 is slower + a bit of auto-aim when the aim is red. It'S pretty much the same.

ut2k4>quake (except for the awesome rocket jumps) :P

Quote from: Hyrage on April 28, 2008, 05:58:58 PM
I tested Command and Conquer 3, favorite game of my firend) and I can be as fast as I am with a mouse. It took me times to adjust myself to the sensitivity but it's really not a big deal once you handle the dead zone of the game (because it's not halo lol). But you are totally right, I would strongly prefer a Keyborad + mouse for an RTS.

C&C ain't a great test. You need to try something fast paced like Starcraft, where you have to actually micro units around and you are constantly clicking. Some of the better Starcraft players can achieve up to 200-300 APM (actions per minute) meaning tha roughly they are issuing 200-300 clicks per minute. And not just clikcing empty air but actually doing stuff.

If anyone can do that with a controller, then my friend, they are god.

Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on April 28, 2008, 09:46:31 PM

Quote from: Hyrage on April 28, 2008, 05:58:58 PM
I tested Command and Conquer 3, favorite game of my firend) and I can be as fast as I am with a mouse. It took me times to adjust myself to the sensitivity but it's really not a big deal once you handle the dead zone of the game (because it's not halo lol). But you are totally right, I would strongly prefer a Keyborad + mouse for an RTS.

C&C ain't a great test. You need to try something fast paced like Starcraft, where you have to actually micro units around and you are constantly clicking. Some of the better Starcraft players can achieve up to 200-300 APM (actions per minute) meaning tha roughly they are issuing 200-300 clicks per minute. And not just clikcing empty air but actually doing stuff.

If anyone can do that with a controller, then my friend, they are god.

Dude I told you it wasn'T about the thumbticks lol.. it's the buttons & shortcuts = keyboard wins LOLLL

Quote from: MR.Mic on April 28, 2008, 08:43:37 PM
Whenever people get into a keyboard + mouse vs. gamepad discussion, I like to post Quake 3 frag videos.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3520996425810543110 - Get Quaked 3

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4392915597663174837 - Annihilation, by own-age

Those totally remind me why I stopped playing straight FPS on PC.

You run into guys like that and the game ain't even fun anymore.

Quote from: Rambo on April 28, 2008, 09:44:42 PM
ut2k4>quake (except for the awesome rocket jumps) :P

waha .. never!
Quake > UT99 > UT2k4

Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on April 28, 2008, 09:52:51 PM

Quote from: MR.Mic on April 28, 2008, 08:43:37 PM
Whenever people get into a keyboard + mouse vs. gamepad discussion, I like to post Quake 3 frag videos.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3520996425810543110 - Get Quaked 3

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4392915597663174837 - Annihilation, by own-age

Those totally remind me why I stopped playing straight FPS on PC.

You run into guys like that and the game ain't even fun anymore.

I understand lol.. but on my side I would enjoyed being killed by skilled players instead of super ubber auto-aim rookies lol... so R6 Vegas 2 was an opportunity and I wait for Quake 3 on x-box live.

PS - Gold > Quake 3 > PS in progress > everything done yet

Quote from: Hyrage on April 28, 2008, 09:58:01 PM
I understand lol.. but on my side I would enjoyed being killed by skilled players instead of super ubber auto-aim rookies lol... so R6 Vegas 2 was an opportunity and I wait for Quake 3 on x-box live.

Skilled players is one thing, but guys who are so good it seems like they're playing with AimBots, that's where I draw the line.

Honestly, I think one of the good points about controllers is that people can't do most of the shit you see in those videos. Sometimes slowing down the game play and making people less accurate can lead to a better game.

Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on April 28, 2008, 10:10:18 PM

Quote from: Hyrage on April 28, 2008, 09:58:01 PM
I understand lol.. but on my side I would enjoyed being killed by skilled players instead of super ubber auto-aim rookies lol... so R6 Vegas 2 was an opportunity and I wait for Quake 3 on x-box live.

Skilled players is one thing, but guys who are so good it seems like they're playing with AimBots, that's where I draw the line.

Honestly, I think one of the good points about controllers is that people can't do most of the shit you see in those videos. Sometimes slowing down the game play and making people less accurate can lead to a better game.

I totally agree with your statement, seriously. I mean, a thumbstick can really be mastered the same way you can master a mouse... but it takes more practice (skills) except if you are born with an uber-incredible talent for that. In my perspective, I played Quake 3 for months and Soldier of Fortune 2 before the gold patch (what destroyed the game) and I reached the top of the top. I understood that mostly all the players could quickly become great players and semi-pro players. On the console, because it's harder, less people are "great players" and the best of the best are really one level above any other players. The only actual problem on Consoles is the auto-aim for a few FPS. So the situation is exactly the same... than it was on PC... it's easy to be a great player and harder to difference yourself from the batch.

This is why I would prefer Quake 3 (pc), Soldier of Fortune 2 (pc) and Rainbow Six Vegas 2 (360):
It's harder to be great because there is no Auto-Aim and the great paleyrs... are really great.

The point is, everyone can use a mouse and become great with it.
No interesting challenge in that, but I also admit that we aren't all playing ofr the same reason.

You also brought an interesting point, why would a Game Developer slow down a game? We aren't talking often about that, but it's usually to give more strategies and Teamwork. If the game is too fast, you lost the immersion of having your Team mates close to you and you can run alone anywhere what become more individual skill oriented.

I guess this is why you could also enjoy CT and PS ^^. I prefer Halo 2 simply for that, it gives a more "teamwork" feeling than many other games. R6 is also doing that. UT3 is... well totally individual in Team Deathmatch.

Wow, your English gets better and better. I love you make those essay-like posts :P I totaly agree that some games give a teamplay feeling, while most of the games are all individual... Then again, everyone is trying to get to the top (scoreboard), so why work together and risk someone else to be on the top if you can by working alone? In some occasions (like specific maps in MoHAA for example), it's better to work as a team. The problem is, in some games people just don't understand that and keep fighting on their own. That's why I prefer mods like Freeze-Tag, they force players to play as a team, without teamplay (or in this case, unfreezing your mates) your as good as dead.

Quote from: LennardF1989 on April 28, 2008, 11:03:31 PM
I love you make those essay-like posts :P

and i hate it. he could sum up his point in about 3-5 sentences instead of making people read monster-posts.

QuoteQuake 3 > PS

*Leaves thread in disgust.*

Quote from: Tidenburg on April 28, 2008, 11:11:17 PM

QuoteQuake 3 > PS

*Leaves thread in disgust.*

You are totally right ^^, I had to change that  ;D

Quote from: Hyrage on April 28, 2008, 10:20:18 PM
I guess this is why you could also enjoy CT and PS ^^. I prefer Halo 2 simply for that, it gives a more "teamwork" feeling than many other games. R6 is also doing that. UT3 is... well totally individual in Team Deathmatch.

Yeah. the slower the game is, generally the more teamwork that's required. Honestly though, the slowness in halo just annoys me, because it makes the sniper rifle the uber weapon. There is like literally nothing you can do in the outdoor levels against a guy who is good with a sniper rifle unless you have one yourself. Halo 2 could use a run button bad IMO.

he couldn't. let him practise his english anyway, no harm in it.

Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on April 29, 2008, 12:11:31 AM

Quote from: Hyrage on April 28, 2008, 10:20:18 PM
I guess this is why you could also enjoy CT and PS ^^. I prefer Halo 2 simply for that, it gives a more "teamwork" feeling than many other games. R6 is also doing that. UT3 is... well totally individual in Team Deathmatch.

Yeah. the slower the game is, generally the more teamwork that's required. Honestly though, the slowness in halo just annoys me, because it makes the sniper rifle the uber weapon. There is like literally nothing you can do in the outdoor levels against a guy who is good with a sniper rifle unless you have one yourself. Halo 2 could use a run button bad IMO.

Yeah it's totally annoying, you strafe faster in Halo 3, but the hitboxe is bigger so there is no big deal. THe best thing is a movement speed between UT3 and Halo 3. Just enough fast to dodge the bullets and not to have a Sprint Feature.

I have a lot of work to do with my English, I know that. I'm watching your posts, it helps me on the long time run. I actually started the writing of a Game & Level Design Book, well if ever I publish it as it instead of a free pdf file, so writing here helps me a lot. However, I'm not going to publish it until I have more experience in the background [game credits] what is proably my anti-morron solution. You know, the jealous guy who will read the book, who works for 7 years in the gaming industry or just played video games for 30 years, who finds the book totally interesting and valuable... he thinks he could do it himself... but at the end he finds that the author never made a real Game of his life - WEIRD - too much for him and he tries to knock down the author because he does not have his experience, but he wrote something strong enough to make this morron jump from his chair...

So, I'm trying to avoid this scenario.

[this post is dedicated to Rambo 8) , not for the word morron but for the size... of the post I mean  ::) ]

(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg171.imageshack.us%2Fimg171%2F6074%2Fownedjx8.jpg&hash=6612721ab1f7da277e0c13461684add99b0125a6)

Quote from: Cyntrox on April 28, 2008, 08:18:06 AM

Quote from: Hyrage on April 28, 2008, 04:28:31 AMBy the simple fact that it is harder to master a 360 controller, the only guys who can be called noob are the Pro PC guys claiming that a Mouse + Keyboard is godly while it's so friendly and easy to use. Isn't a real man supposed to enjoy real challenges!!? Using a controller requires more skills and the Console Pro Gamers have truly something to be proud of.

Thumbs up

Now THIS is the most ridiculous statement ever.

1) I don't play a game so that I can spend all my time mastering the controls. If that's your idea of a deep game, go play Dance Dance Revolution.
2) What about the female gamers?

1) Umm, it's not that hard too master a controller but it's easier to master a mouse/keyboard for most people.  Don't make it seem like it takes a bazillion decades to learn how to aim with your thumb.

2) Real woman?  Real women shouldn't play video games as much as men do anyways, it's not attractive to me for some reason.

@Hyrage:

QuoteI'm watching your posts, it helps me on the long time run.

The correct phrase you are looking for goes like this:
I'm watching your posts, it helps me in the long run.
It was so close, just not quite worded right.  Just a little tip.  ;)

lol thx papa,
The english version is always shorter X_x