It is rare that a player in CT can successfully use cloak to sneak by or neck a merc. I think this is because of how enormously salient the cloak is. In order to improve it, it needs some more strengths. Making the cloak more transparent would increase its strength, giving the highly equiped merc a challenge against cloak users.
Something else about cloak: Cloak should be accessible in the rain too, but the droplets hitting the suit should impact its visibilty, so that spies need to consider their setting for a tactical use of cloak.
That would be sweet.
I agree, I like the rain idea too. I don't have much experience with the cloak on PC, but on xbox (before the 360 came out ofc), the cloak still wasn't a great gadget. I'd love it to be a bit less visible and work in the rain to some extent. Also, EAX won't pick up the sound of the cloak activating, giving it even more of a boost.
Camo will be better of course.
Interesting idea on the rain drops affecting it.
seems they only did camo like it is atm for the start of orphan, cos would be impossible to see a spy if they could camo up the slope to the orphanage ???
the effect of rain on camo is really a minor thing, but i agree that not allowing camo in rain at all is kinda over the top.
I also think you should be able to grab a merc while in cloak (so you dont have to disable first before doing so). Ofcourse, the effect while start fading away instantly at the moment you grab the merc.
Well I'd like if you would be able to jump and fall down a bit without compromising your cloak. (Originally presented by InvisibleMan and I think it got way too little attention so I say we bring that one up)
Quote from: LennardF1989 on May 16, 2008, 02:59:45 PM
I also think you should be able to grab a merc while in cloak (so you dont have to disable first before doing so). Ofcourse, the effect while start fading away instantly at the moment you grab the merc.
Not totally sure, but if you have slow walk on when you grab, camo stays on ???
Argh, remove that demon from your sig, leelu.
Your avatar resembles much more of a demon, kurbutti. Anyone can have whatever they like in their sigs.
Quote from: Kurbutti on May 16, 2008, 04:37:50 PM
Argh, remove that demon from your sig, leelu.
0_o what demon? its flowers and hearts. . .
Quote from: .leelu12. on May 16, 2008, 06:14:37 PM
Quote from: Kurbutti on May 16, 2008, 04:37:50 PM
Argh, remove that demon from your sig, leelu.
0_o what demon? its flowers and hearts. . .
I'm pretty sure he was being ironic :P
And V pwns everyone. Even Sam Fisher.
Camo in CT was fine. If used correctly, you could easily sneak all and even grab mercs. I did it all the time against good teams and good players. It just takes skill and experience. The only thing that needs to be fixed, is the only thing that made Camo usleess to certain players and thats the EAX bug. Doesn't matter where I was, certain players could hear me go in and out of camo and thus would just have to switch to EMF. This completely destroyed any reason to use camo. Otherwise Camo in CT was fine, but could benefit from a few small changes.
Quote from: Zedblade on May 16, 2008, 08:46:43 PM
Camo in CT was fine. If used correctly, you could easily sneak all and even grab mercs. I did it all the time against good teams and good players. It just takes skill and experience. The only thing that needs to be fixed, is the only thing that made Camo usleess to certain players and thats the EAX bug. Doesn't matter where I was, certain players could hear me go in and out of camo and thus would just have to switch to EMF. This completely destroyed any reason to use camo. Otherwise Camo in CT was fine, but could benefit from a few small changes.
Yeah I totally agree, the camo was great the way it was in CT and was very useful, but no camo should be perfect anyway - OP
Argee with Zed.
However i'm a big fan of being completely invisible when not moving. But having a ripple effect while moving.
Being completely invisible when not moving just helps me hide in the middle of a room. I like doing that in the dark as I get a crazy high when mercs run into me and continue on their way.
Quote from: Daybreak on May 16, 2008, 11:41:12 PM
Argee with Zed.
However i'm a big fan of being completely invisible when not moving. But having a ripple effect while moving.
Being completely invisible when not moving just helps me hide in the middle of a room. I like doing that in the dark as I get a crazy high when mercs run into me and continue on their way.
even more if they are suing EMF vision hahahaha ;D
Quote from: Zedblade on May 16, 2008, 08:46:43 PM
Camo in CT was fine. If used correctly, you could easily sneak all and even grab mercs. I did it all the time against good teams and good players. It just takes skill and experience. The only thing that needs to be fixed, is the only thing that made Camo usleess to certain players and thats the EAX bug. Doesn't matter where I was, certain players could hear me go in and out of camo and thus would just have to switch to EMF. This completely destroyed any reason to use camo. Otherwise Camo in CT was fine, but could benefit from a few small changes.
Ummm... no. CT's camo was far from perfect, and I'm not buying your shit about "getting a lot of 'good' players (lol) with camo" without proof. And even if you did have proof, that wouldn't change my mind about the improvements I've already listed.
i don't think camo needs a big boost considering all the other changes: fixed sound, fixed mt, fixed emf,...
Quote from: Blank Man on May 17, 2008, 01:13:57 AM
Quote from: Zedblade on May 16, 2008, 08:46:43 PM
Camo in CT was fine. If used correctly, you could easily sneak all and even grab mercs. I did it all the time against good teams and good players. It just takes skill and experience. The only thing that needs to be fixed, is the only thing that made Camo usleess to certain players and thats the EAX bug. Doesn't matter where I was, certain players could hear me go in and out of camo and thus would just have to switch to EMF. This completely destroyed any reason to use camo. Otherwise Camo in CT was fine, but could benefit from a few small changes.
Ummm... no. CT's camo was far from perfect, and I'm not buying your shit about "getting a lot of 'good' players (lol) with camo" without proof. And even if you did have proof, that wouldn't change my mind about the improvements I've already listed.
Proof?
Watch any of my music videos, half of the grabs I get was because I was in camo. And most of the people I grab are good players smurfing.
I'm sure there are a few former Good Ct players on here that will attest to my and others ability to properly use camo to not just grab, but sneak by mercs, which is what it excelled at.
Just because you couldn't use it correctly, doesn't mean no one else could.
I think camo should be one of those things that is easy for most people to use effectively, and not those few "godly" people like you. EAX is its main problem - that should be a big enough boost for a good amount of people.
Quote from: Zedblade on May 17, 2008, 02:07:07 AM
Quote from: Blank Man on May 17, 2008, 01:13:57 AM
Quote from: Zedblade on May 16, 2008, 08:46:43 PM
Camo in CT was fine. If used correctly, you could easily sneak all and even grab mercs. I did it all the time against good teams and good players. It just takes skill and experience. The only thing that needs to be fixed, is the only thing that made Camo usleess to certain players and thats the EAX bug. Doesn't matter where I was, certain players could hear me go in and out of camo and thus would just have to switch to EMF. This completely destroyed any reason to use camo. Otherwise Camo in CT was fine, but could benefit from a few small changes.
Ummm... no. CT's camo was far from perfect, and I'm not buying your shit about "getting a lot of 'good' players (lol) with camo" without proof. And even if you did have proof, that wouldn't change my mind about the improvements I've already listed.
Proof?
Watch any of my music videos, half of the grabs I get was because I was in camo. And most of the people I grab are good players smurfing.
I'm sure there are a few former Good Ct players on here that will attest to my and others ability to properly use camo to not just grab, but sneak by mercs, which is what it excelled at.
Just because you couldn't use it correctly, doesn't mean no one else could.
Typical... Well, I already said this, but it's often I need to repeat myself because of the lazyness of others, so... Even if you have proof, I don't care. I still feel that these improvements are necessary for a better game.
P.S. Whether or not someone is a good player is debatable ;)
Quote from: Blank Man on May 17, 2008, 06:43:21 AM
Quote from: Zedblade on May 17, 2008, 02:07:07 AM
Quote from: Blank Man on May 17, 2008, 01:13:57 AM
Quote from: Zedblade on May 16, 2008, 08:46:43 PM
Camo in CT was fine. If used correctly, you could easily sneak all and even grab mercs. I did it all the time against good teams and good players. It just takes skill and experience. The only thing that needs to be fixed, is the only thing that made Camo usleess to certain players and thats the EAX bug. Doesn't matter where I was, certain players could hear me go in and out of camo and thus would just have to switch to EMF. This completely destroyed any reason to use camo. Otherwise Camo in CT was fine, but could benefit from a few small changes.
Ummm... no. CT's camo was far from perfect, and I'm not buying your shit about "getting a lot of 'good' players (lol) with camo" without proof. And even if you did have proof, that wouldn't change my mind about the improvements I've already listed.
Proof?
Watch any of my music videos, half of the grabs I get was because I was in camo. And most of the people I grab are good players smurfing.
I'm sure there are a few former Good Ct players on here that will attest to my and others ability to properly use camo to not just grab, but sneak by mercs, which is what it excelled at.
Just because you couldn't use it correctly, doesn't mean no one else could.
Typical... Well, I already said this, but it's often I need to repeat myself because of the lazyness of others, so... Even if you have proof, I don't care. I still feel that these improvements are necessary for a better game.
P.S. Whether or not someone is a good player is debatable ;)
OMGAF TUX IS ALIVEE 1!
Is that Tux? I might be thinking of a different Tux but do you go to kgbgraphics? You guys both do have a penguin for a sig/avatar.
Quote from: Blank Man on May 17, 2008, 06:43:21 AM
Quote from: Zedblade on May 17, 2008, 02:07:07 AM
Quote from: Blank Man on May 17, 2008, 01:13:57 AM
Quote from: Zedblade on May 16, 2008, 08:46:43 PM
Camo in CT was fine. If used correctly, you could easily sneak all and even grab mercs. I did it all the time against good teams and good players. It just takes skill and experience. The only thing that needs to be fixed, is the only thing that made Camo usleess to certain players and thats the EAX bug. Doesn't matter where I was, certain players could hear me go in and out of camo and thus would just have to switch to EMF. This completely destroyed any reason to use camo. Otherwise Camo in CT was fine, but could benefit from a few small changes.
Ummm... no. CT's camo was far from perfect, and I'm not buying your shit about "getting a lot of 'good' players (lol) with camo" without proof. And even if you did have proof, that wouldn't change my mind about the improvements I've already listed.
Proof?
Watch any of my music videos, half of the grabs I get was because I was in camo. And most of the people I grab are good players smurfing.
I'm sure there are a few former Good Ct players on here that will attest to my and others ability to properly use camo to not just grab, but sneak by mercs, which is what it excelled at.
Just because you couldn't use it correctly, doesn't mean no one else could.
Typical... Well, I already said this, but it's often I need to repeat myself because of the lazyness of others, so... Even if you have proof, I don't care. I still feel that these improvements are necessary for a better game.
P.S. Whether or not someone is a good player is debatable ;)
So you're that hard-head and ignorant? Great, I'm not even going to waste my time trying any more after this. If you don't like camo, then don't use it and just shut up about it.
i have to agree with zed, camo isn't that broken. it's a good thing that you need skill to master it. atm on most maps it can't compete with smoke etc mainly because people mt/emf-whore all the time and benefit from eax superhearing, but this won't be the case in ps.
Quote from: Papa Skull on May 17, 2008, 08:08:56 AM
Is that Tux? I might be thinking of a different Tux but do you go to kgbgraphics? You guys both do have a penguin for a sig/avatar.
Considering Tux is the name of the Linux mascot (a penguin), that's not very surprising.
Quote from: Papa Skull on May 17, 2008, 02:11:25 AM
I think camo should be one of those things that is easy for most people to use effectively, and not those few "godly" people like you. EAX is its main problem - that should be a big enough boost for a good amount of people.
Correct, Zedblade although you and other people have had success with Camo Suit, some people who aren't as skilled can't use it because of the dis-advantages listed, it's important the game is accessible and not just 'pro' based.
Quote from: STON3COLDKILLA on May 17, 2008, 02:20:12 PM
Correct, Zedblade although you and other people have had success with Camo Suit, some people who aren't as skilled can't use it because of the dis-advantages listed, it's important the game is accessible and not just 'pro' based.
for newb-accessability it doesn't matter if it's easy to use camo effectively or not as you can begin playing with easier-to-use gadgets like smoke nades (though it's not easy to master them, too) and learn every other gadget piece by piece.
what disadvantages do you mean exactly? go ahead and make a list if you want people to understand what u mean.
Everything said in this topic, I'm not going to waste my time typing it out again. But dude maybe they will start out learning different gadgets, but that doesn't make it any easier to learn camo, you have no point ;).
why should everything be easy to learn??? learning to master all the gadgets and figuring out advanced tactics is half of the fun in this game...
Quote from: Zedblade on May 17, 2008, 02:07:07 AM
Quote from: Blank Man on May 17, 2008, 01:13:57 AM
Quote from: Zedblade on May 16, 2008, 08:46:43 PM
Camo in CT was fine. If used correctly, you could easily sneak all and even grab mercs. I did it all the time against good teams and good players. It just takes skill and experience. The only thing that needs to be fixed, is the only thing that made Camo usleess to certain players and thats the EAX bug. Doesn't matter where I was, certain players could hear me go in and out of camo and thus would just have to switch to EMF. This completely destroyed any reason to use camo. Otherwise Camo in CT was fine, but could benefit from a few small changes.
Ummm... no. CT's camo was far from perfect, and I'm not buying your shit about "getting a lot of 'good' players (lol) with camo" without proof. And even if you did have proof, that wouldn't change my mind about the improvements I've already listed.
Proof?
Watch any of my music videos, half of the grabs I get was because I was in camo. And most of the people I grab are good players smurfing.
I'm sure there are a few former Good Ct players on here that will attest to my and others ability to properly use camo to not just grab, but sneak by mercs, which is what it excelled at.
Just because you couldn't use it correctly, doesn't mean no one else could.
I attest.
Quote from: Zedblade on May 17, 2008, 10:05:52 AM
Quote from: Blank Man on May 17, 2008, 06:43:21 AM
Quote from: Zedblade on May 17, 2008, 02:07:07 AM
Quote from: Blank Man on May 17, 2008, 01:13:57 AM
Quote from: Zedblade on May 16, 2008, 08:46:43 PM
Camo in CT was fine. If used correctly, you could easily sneak all and even grab mercs. I did it all the time against good teams and good players. It just takes skill and experience. The only thing that needs to be fixed, is the only thing that made Camo usleess to certain players and thats the EAX bug. Doesn't matter where I was, certain players could hear me go in and out of camo and thus would just have to switch to EMF. This completely destroyed any reason to use camo. Otherwise Camo in CT was fine, but could benefit from a few small changes.
Ummm... no. CT's camo was far from perfect, and I'm not buying your shit about "getting a lot of 'good' players (lol) with camo" without proof. And even if you did have proof, that wouldn't change my mind about the improvements I've already listed.
Proof?
Watch any of my music videos, half of the grabs I get was because I was in camo. And most of the people I grab are good players smurfing.
I'm sure there are a few former Good Ct players on here that will attest to my and others ability to properly use camo to not just grab, but sneak by mercs, which is what it excelled at.
Just because you couldn't use it correctly, doesn't mean no one else could.
Typical... Well, I already said this, but it's often I need to repeat myself because of the lazyness of others, so... Even if you have proof, I don't care. I still feel that these improvements are necessary for a better game.
P.S. Whether or not someone is a good player is debatable ;)
So you're that hard-head and ignorant? Great, I'm not even going to waste my time trying any more after this. If you don't like camo, then don't use it and just shut up about it.
That is the gayest suggestion ever. Camo in CT is a weak gadget, and I'm just trying to suggest some improvements. Your annoying cocky attitude is not needed. "I beat this guy with camo. I fucking rule"
My point is that in order to make camo as effective against mercs as the other gadgets- smoke, chaff, HBS, snares, spy bullets- camo needs to be stronger.
Quote from: Rambo on May 17, 2008, 06:14:50 PM
why should everything be easy to learn??? learning to master all the gadgets and figuring out advanced tactics is half of the fun in this game...
Where did I say everything should be easy to learn :). I said it should be 'easier' infact.
Camo should be the natural counter to snipers on wide open levels, so I really like the idea that camo would let you approach orphanage undetected. It should work on station too.
Really I don't see any problem with letting camo work in the rain normally. I don't think it would be especially broken. It's not like there are objectives in the rain or anything. Most of the rain areas are near the spy spawn.
I also like being able to drop out of a vent with camo on. Perhaps you can generate a limited amount of motion as to not set off camo. It'd also be kind of nice to be able to jump to a very with camo on. not a running jump but just the stationary jump.
Also, camo should be silent. No more of the EAX bullshit hearing camo activate.
I don't really see camo as being that broken because MT and EMF both detect it, as does the laser and you can see blurriness when a camo spy is moving rather easily. Camo could use some boosts and I dont' think it would break the game.
stop with the effect of rain on camo people, it doesn't make any difference xD
camo should definitely make a gentle noise when activating it so that it doesn't become a no-brainer.
i'm not sure if camo should stay activated if you do little fast movements. maybe becomming blurry in that moment would be sufficient.
Quote from: Rambo on May 17, 2008, 08:07:50 PM
stop with the effect of rain on camo people, it doesn't make any difference xD
Sry, it makes a huge difference on higher resolutions, just like trying to see camo in 640 versus 1024
Quote from: Blank Man on May 17, 2008, 07:25:09 PM
Quote from: Zedblade on May 17, 2008, 10:05:52 AM
Quote from: Blank Man on May 17, 2008, 06:43:21 AM
Quote from: Zedblade on May 17, 2008, 02:07:07 AM
Quote from: Blank Man on May 17, 2008, 01:13:57 AM
Quote from: Zedblade on May 16, 2008, 08:46:43 PM
Camo in CT was fine. If used correctly, you could easily sneak all and even grab mercs. I did it all the time against good teams and good players. It just takes skill and experience. The only thing that needs to be fixed, is the only thing that made Camo usleess to certain players and thats the EAX bug. Doesn't matter where I was, certain players could hear me go in and out of camo and thus would just have to switch to EMF. This completely destroyed any reason to use camo. Otherwise Camo in CT was fine, but could benefit from a few small changes.
Ummm... no. CT's camo was far from perfect, and I'm not buying your shit about "getting a lot of 'good' players (lol) with camo" without proof. And even if you did have proof, that wouldn't change my mind about the improvements I've already listed.
Proof?
Watch any of my music videos, half of the grabs I get was because I was in camo. And most of the people I grab are good players smurfing.
I'm sure there are a few former Good Ct players on here that will attest to my and others ability to properly use camo to not just grab, but sneak by mercs, which is what it excelled at.
Just because you couldn't use it correctly, doesn't mean no one else could.
Typical... Well, I already said this, but it's often I need to repeat myself because of the lazyness of others, so... Even if you have proof, I don't care. I still feel that these improvements are necessary for a better game.
P.S. Whether or not someone is a good player is debatable ;)
So you're that hard-head and ignorant? Great, I'm not even going to waste my time trying any more after this. If you don't like camo, then don't use it and just shut up about it.
That is the gayest suggestion ever. Camo in CT is a weak gadget, and I'm just trying to suggest some improvements. Your annoying cocky attitude is not needed. "I beat this guy with camo. I fucking rule"
My point is that in order to make camo as effective against mercs as the other gadgets- smoke, chaff, HBS, snares, spy bullets- camo needs to be stronger.
Lol.
rain plays only a role on two maps: station and orph. on orph, going slow with camo on the outside would be a waste of time, and station sucks dick anyways.
in ct camo needs a slight boost, but i think it'll be just fine in ps. can't see any reason to worry about that as with seefoo and zed we have two very competent camo users in the dev crew.
dont think dev team can program all of this stuff. u gotta be more realistic and basic in ur suggestions. iv done some brief work in the art department of a small game producing firm and they reject project (concept) ideas which have more work completed on them than the dev team has completed so far for ps!
u guys wont like me saying this, but u could be in for a 4-5 year wait, just for a basically playable ps game. If you want all these extras its gonna take an extra 1-2 years after that as well! :-\
Quote from: .leelu12. on May 17, 2008, 10:22:48 PM
dont think dev team can program all of this stuff. u gotta be more realistic and basic in ur suggestions. iv done some brief work in the art department of a small game producing firm and they reject project (concept) ideas which have more work completed on them than the dev team has completed so far for ps!
u guys wont like me saying this, but u could be in for a 4-5 year wait, just for a basically playable ps game. If you want all these extras its gonna take an extra 1-2 years after that as well! :-\
What don't you think they could program? Keep in mind that it's based on UT3, so they don't have to make the entire engine by themselves. THAT would take time. It won't take 4-5 years for a basically playable game, there's great progress, just look at the EMF video!
Quote from: Rambo on May 17, 2008, 06:14:50 PM
why should everything be easy to learn??? learning to master all the gadgets and figuring out advanced tactics is half of the fun in this game...
I said camo should be "1 of those things" that should be easy to learn. It's either you are a master of camo or it's useless for you apparently. I have yet to see much masters of camo and I've seen ton of people use it and not use it effectively to the least bit. Either you are amazing, or you suck. It's not hard to learn how to use camo, it's just that EAX coupled with EMF makes camo useless. EMF by itself is fine, but being able to hear it turn on then being able to flip on EMF and see it is a recipe for disaster to anyone using the gadget. On console you get these lame green outlines around a camo using spy, so I haven't been able to use it to any effect for the last 2 years on any platform.
I was gunna quote Rambo but fuck it, in the beggining after the chaostheory beta if Applejacks.CK aka Seefoo Never made the video on orphanage promoting it none of you
mother fuckers esp you european hos who think your soo good a spy just cause you have heart beat strappped to ur ass would : A) Use heart beat because you thought spy bullets work better ( which they do in my case but thats just preference ) , B) use camo because you felt it was a new gadget and you had no idea how to use it and C) Play orphanage because your shaking in your spy boots because it was too dark
oh heres the proof soo I can end all the douche beggary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rfirPURFUY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rfirPURFUY)
and thats the damn truth / end rant.
papa, just because there is a green outline on the xbox360 and the eax superhearing bullshit in the pc version doesn't mean camo needs a big boost. both bugs/inbalances will be gone in ps and you speaking about good players is kinda ridiculous anyways...
Quote from: AgentX_003 on May 18, 2008, 10:58:53 AM
I was gunna quote Rambo but fuck it, in the beggining after the chaostheory beta if Applejacks.CK aka Seefoo Never made the video on orphanage promoting it none of you
mother fuckers esp you european hos who think your soo good a spy just cause you have heart beat strappped to ur ass would : A) Use heart beat because you thought spy bullets work better ( which they do in my case but thats just preference ) , B) use camo because you felt it was a new gadget and you had no idea how to use it and C) Play orphanage because your shaking in your spy boots because it was too dark
oh heres the proof soo I can end all the douche beggary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rfirPURFUY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rfirPURFUY)
and thats the damn truth / end rant.
i havent seen any videos n tried n like camo and hb and play orphan
Agent, stop being a fag already.
Quote from: Rambo on May 18, 2008, 12:40:58 PM
papa, just because there is a green outline on the xbox360 and the eax superhearing bullshit in the pc version doesn't mean camo needs a big boost. both bugs/inbalances will be gone in ps and you speaking about good players is kinda ridiculous anyways...
Well I don't think anyone is saying it requires a huge boost. The changes I've proposed actualyl don't make camo that much better. They just allow it to work in a few extra spots. Like dropping out of a vent or out in the rain.
Agent, try to use a bit less unnecessary negative words. :indiff: .
Quote from: Rambo on May 18, 2008, 12:40:58 PM
papa, just because there is a green outline on the xbox360 and the eax superhearing bullshit in the pc version doesn't mean camo needs a big boost. both bugs/inbalances will be gone in ps and you speaking about good players is kinda ridiculous anyways...
Uh, w/o EAX it recieves a big boost. And that was my point. It should be a big enough boost for it to be a much more useful gadget now. Comprehend my words properly.
Quote from: Zedblade on May 16, 2008, 08:46:43 PM
Camo in CT was fine. If used correctly, you could easily sneak all and even grab mercs. I did it all the time against good teams and good players. It just takes skill and experience. The only thing that needs to be fixed, is the only thing that made Camo usleess to certain players and thats the EAX bug. Doesn't matter where I was, certain players could hear me go in and out of camo and thus would just have to switch to EMF. This completely destroyed any reason to use camo. Otherwise Camo in CT was fine, but could benefit from a few small changes.
Yep... When I found out how good it worked in combination with thermal vision, I was always hoping for mercs to use thermal all the time. Cause if you use slow speed and camo, and the merc has activated his thermal vision, you're almost 100% invisible to him...
motion tracking...
Quote from: MulleDK13 on May 19, 2008, 11:57:56 AM
Yep... When I found out how good it worked in combination with thermal vision, I was always hoping for mercs to use thermal all the time. Cause if you use slow speed and camo, and the merc has activated his thermal vision, you're almost 100% invisible to him...
Where did you get merc's thermal?? WTF
Quote from: Liqu1D_133 on May 19, 2008, 04:42:00 PM
Quote from: MulleDK13 on May 19, 2008, 11:57:56 AM
Yep... When I found out how good it worked in combination with thermal vision, I was always hoping for mercs to use thermal all the time. Cause if you use slow speed and camo, and the merc has activated his thermal vision, you're almost 100% invisible to him...
Where did you get merc's thermal?? WTF
Answered in the post above yours.
aaaaaaah sry i didnt see it -.-
Quote from: Papa Skull on May 18, 2008, 10:09:05 PM
Uh, w/o EAX it recieves a big boost. And that was my point. It should be a big enough boost for it to be a much more useful gadget now. Comprehend my words properly.
Well, it's possible, but camo is still rather limited in the places you can use it and honestly, it's really easy to see on a high resolution display. It was nasty on xbox due to the low resolution, that made it much harder to see camo at long range. On PC I regularly can see camoed spies are relatively long distances. It really isn't that hard. Unless PS has some ambient "noise" or lack of clarity on your base visions, all you really need is a decent resolution and half decent lighting and camo just isn't that great.
Combined with the fact that you automatically decloak when coming out of a vent or jumping. It's just not as useful as it could be.
Camo is great if you can use it correctly. Take out the Camo eax "bug" and its perfect.
Suggestion: Make the camo bar go slower (last longer) when still or slow-crouch?
Discuss.
Interesting suggestion Freeman. Like the camo on Crysis perhaps? Where if you are stationary the energy drains much slower? Hmm, I like it. Seems perfectly balanced, unless I'm overlooking something, and it would be a nice boost.
This isn't Crysis, quit polluting my threads, noob. GTFO
Quote from: Blank Man on May 23, 2008, 04:32:20 AM
This isn't Crysis, quit polluting my threads, noob. GTFO
I'm pretty sure the majority realizes this isn't Crysis....however, the idea of camo energy draining faster/slower depending on the spy's motion has been discussed before and was an excellent idea.
So far the only one proving there "nubness" is you Blank.
Quote from: Blank Man on May 23, 2008, 04:32:20 AM
This isn't Crysis, quit polluting my threads, noob. GTFO
Wow. The only one polluting threads is in fact YOU. The Crysis camo suit idea was an excellent suggestion and yet again you come up with no evidence whatsoever to prove your point. Gtfo.
Quote from: Papa Skull on May 23, 2008, 06:49:34 AM
Quote from: Blank Man on May 23, 2008, 04:32:20 AM
This isn't Crysis, quit polluting my threads, noob. GTFO
Wow. The only one polluting threads is in fact YOU. The Crysis camo suit idea was an excellent suggestion and yet again you come up with no evidence whatsoever to prove your point. Gtfo.
Thanks for the hypocracy, but you had no proof of a host grab, yet you give me stupid shit like "prove it :O"
then you finish that off with something I said to you. You are just stupid. And the crysis camo suit idea only matches a game like crysis. and... since this is nothing like it. gtfo =]
Quote from: Westfall on May 23, 2008, 06:32:28 AM
Quote from: Blank Man on May 23, 2008, 04:32:20 AM
This isn't Crysis, quit polluting my threads, noob. GTFO
I'm pretty sure the majority realizes this isn't Crysis....however, the idea of camo energy draining faster/slower depending on the spy's motion has been discussed before and was an excellent idea.
So far the only one proving there "nubness" is you Blank.
*their*? lol youz the proz!
Oh my God. You are an amazing combination of Agent and Dimmy. No offense Agent hehe ;D
Proof of host grab? Hmmm, looks like you are getting off topic in your own topic Blank Man. I suggest not polluting your own threads. ;) But if we must go there, I can offer plenty of proof of host grab. Take 1 look at your thread on host grabs. There you can find plenty of reasons for host grab: Bad coding, Host 0 Ping, Etc... Pull your head out of your ass, no one agrees with you because you are dead wrong - admit it and move on.
ON TOPIC: How does Crysis camo not fit our style of gameplay? Have you even played Crysis? When I use camo in Crysis I am constantly using it to sneak across open areas to get to cover or shrubbery so I can recharge my camo and go again. Same here in SvM. Going by this logic: "And the crysis camo suit idea only matches a game like crysis" I'd say you've never even played CT, because it has camo suits as well. I guess camo suits match games like SvM as well. The Crysis suit is just implemented much better.
Gtfo. For the last time.
Quote from: Blank Man on May 23, 2008, 07:12:15 AM
Quote from: Westfall on May 23, 2008, 06:32:28 AM
Quote from: Blank Man on May 23, 2008, 04:32:20 AM
This isn't Crysis, quit polluting my threads, noob. GTFO
I'm pretty sure the majority realizes this isn't Crysis....however, the idea of camo energy draining faster/slower depending on the spy's motion has been discussed before and was an excellent idea.
So far the only one proving there "nubness" is you Blank.
*their*? lol youz the proz!
Forgot I was out to impress the ignorant with my perfect grammatical application. My apologies asshole. You reflect on grammar because you've got nothing better for the thread?
camo draining energy based on speed is a very bad idea for svm.
Nah, imo it's a good bargain.
Another idea would be to set a constant distance for a moving spy, and let it drain as if he was creeping (alowes speed) when he's still.
Quote from: Rambo on May 23, 2008, 02:00:38 PM
camo draining energy based on speed is a very bad idea for svm.
Reason?
I think it's a great idea because it would allow you to be stationary for a longer amount of time than as if you were moving.
camo's main purpose is to stealth from point a to point b, not to camp in some spot without cover for ages. a moving spy already appears on mt vision, no need to further cripple moving around. not moving is also mainly used for necks which certainly needs no boost. camo should take some timing skills and if you're too stupid to find some cover in time before it looses it's energy, you deserve to be found.
Quote from: Rambo on May 23, 2008, 03:57:26 PM
camo's main purpose is to stealth from point a to point b, not to camp in some spot without cover for ages. a moving spy already appears on mt vision, no need to further cripple moving around. not moving is also mainly used for necks which certainly needs no boost. camo should take some timing skills and if you're too stupid to find some cover in time before it looses it's energy, you deserve to be found.
Its not about camping a spot. Its about slowing down because you've unexpectedly caught yourself in the middle of a mercs path. The timing doesn't have to be as drastic, but it should depend on movement.
I agree with Westfall here. Camo draining speed linked to general speed sounds like a logical idea.
Also, it'll make it slightly easier to use, because the hiding for necks will be easier.
Quote from: Westfall on May 23, 2008, 06:58:35 PM
Its not about camping a spot. Its about slowing down because you've unexpectedly caught yourself in the middle of a mercs path. The timing doesn't have to be as drastic, but it should depend on movement.
that's exactly my point: there's no need to make camo more of a no-brainer gadget. if camo turns out to drain energy too fast for a good player, just make it drain energy slower. but don't add some stupid pro-camping noob feature ffs.
Quote from: Rambo on May 23, 2008, 03:57:26 PM
camo's main purpose is to stealth from point a to point b, not to camp in some spot without cover for ages. a moving spy already appears on mt vision, no need to further cripple moving around. not moving is also mainly used for necks which certainly needs no boost. camo should take some timing skills and if you're too stupid to find some cover in time before it looses it's energy, you deserve to be found.
It's not like it will cripple people who are moving around, more like it just doesn't cripple people who are stationary. It goes down the same speed it used to while moving, but while stationary it goes down 3 times slower. While moving slowly it goes down 2 times slower. While going full speed while crouched it decreases at the same rate as in CT. While running it could either drain 2 times as fast or become completely disabled.
You are also exaggerating, camping in some spot w/o cover even with camo on is never good idea. A good merc is always cycling through visions and if you stay in the same spot forever you will be seen. Therefore you need to use it to get from point a to point b anyways.
Also, just making it have a 2x longer drain period will also reward people standing still. So I don't see your logic there, especially when you don't want to favor stationary spies.
Quote from: Westfall on May 23, 2008, 06:58:35 PM
Quote from: Rambo on May 23, 2008, 03:57:26 PM
camo's main purpose is to stealth from point a to point b, not to camp in some spot without cover for ages. a moving spy already appears on mt vision, no need to further cripple moving around. not moving is also mainly used for necks which certainly needs no boost. camo should take some timing skills and if you're too stupid to find some cover in time before it looses it's energy, you deserve to be found.
Its not about camping a spot. Its about slowing down because you've unexpectedly caught yourself in the middle of a mercs path. The timing doesn't have to be as drastic, but it should depend on movement.
Yep, it shoudn't stop completely, just drain a fair bit slower.
Like burningdeath said its also pretty logical too, when you run it stops working, so when ur stationary it should last for longer. I think it should be slower if completely stationary, and maybe slow-crouching, but normal crouching should stay as it is, it should just not work when running.
TBH it all depends if a new speed system is implemented.
Quote from: Rambo on May 23, 2008, 09:33:07 PM
Quote from: Westfall on May 23, 2008, 06:58:35 PM
Its not about camping a spot. Its about slowing down because you've unexpectedly caught yourself in the middle of a mercs path. The timing doesn't have to be as drastic, but it should depend on movement.
that's exactly my point: there's no need to make camo more of a no-brainer gadget. if camo turns out to drain energy too fast for a good player, just make it drain energy slower. but don't add some stupid pro-camping noob feature ffs.
Its not a pro camping noob feature. Name me some players (apart from seefoo) who can use camo well/to as good of a standard as him?
why should a stationary spy be rewarded? oO
anyways, they'll do it like ct (which is a good thing) so let's stop this discussion now.
Quote from: Rambo on May 24, 2008, 12:55:59 AM
why should a stationary spy be rewarded? oO
anyways, they'll do it like ct (which is a good thing) so let's stop this discussion now.
you know this?
I see some posts were deleted, with good intention. I don't quite remember what I said but I shouldn't have said it haha
But here's the answer: He doesn't know. Just another assumption.
There's the nice version of what I said.
Camo's main purpose in CT was to get from point A to point B. This is PS, it can have more functions, like actually hiding a spy better from close to mid range. It also needs more functions or effectiveness because it wasn't a great gadget to begin with, not talking about EAX, I'm talking about visibility. It was easy to see a spy using camo in CT, hopefully it will be a bit less clear in PS.
This is what I'm saying:
-Make it a tiny less visible than CT's.
-Get rid of EAX hearing suit turn on.
-Implement a better draining system based on speed.
It's not rewarding a stationary spy, it's just not punishing him by draining all of his energy away even if he's not moving. And what's a stationary spy gonna do? Win the game? No, he's got to move sooner or later. This would just hopefully make it harder to spot him for a longer period of time until he DOES move, then the draining can continue at a faster rate.
you still haven't answered WHY a stationary spy should be rewarded with longer camo use / some1 moving should be punished...
It has already been answered.
Quote from: Westfall on May 23, 2008, 06:58:35 PMIts not about camping a spot. Its about slowing down because you've unexpectedly caught yourself in the middle of a mercs path. The timing doesn't have to be as drastic, but it should depend on movement.
Quote from: Rambo on May 24, 2008, 07:58:06 PM
you still haven't answered WHY a stationary spy should be rewarded with longer camo use / some1 moving should be punished...
A stationary spy should be able to use a minimum of energy to keep camo on, but it should be on about the same time as if he was creeping.
A moving spy gets a bonus because he is harder to spot AND he is moving, so to keep some balance camo needs to drain faster to him.
Quote from: Gui Brazil on May 24, 2008, 08:02:21 PM
It has already been answered.
Quote from: Westfall on May 23, 2008, 06:58:35 PMIts not about camping a spot. Its about slowing down because you've unexpectedly caught yourself in the middle of a mercs path. The timing doesn't have to be as drastic, but it should depend on movement.
that deserves to be punished by loosing one's cover, doesn't it??
Quote from: Liqu1D_133 on May 24, 2008, 08:19:27 PM
Quote from: Rambo on May 24, 2008, 07:58:06 PM
you still haven't answered WHY a stationary spy should be rewarded with longer camo use / some1 moving should be punished...
A stationary spy should be able to use a minimum of energy to keep camo on, but it should be on about the same time as if he was creeping.
A moving spy gets a bonus because he is harder to spot AND he is moving, so to keep some balance camo needs to drain faster to him.
a moving spy appears on motion tracking vision, a stationary spy does not.
Quote from: Rambo on May 24, 2008, 07:58:06 PM
you still haven't answered WHY a stationary spy should be rewarded with longer camo use / some1 moving should be punished...
It was literally answered in the paragraph above your post.
You are also forgetting about EMF. A stationary, mobile, camo-using spy always appears on EMF.
About what you just said, it doesn't deserve to be punished because you brought camo. You shouldn't be punished by having it drain out really quickly when you are not moving because a merc came through the door. Right now, in CT, you are punished for standing still with camo because you lose energy and gain 0 ground in the process. I say you should only lose a lot of energy for gaining X amount of ground. You move it drains faster, if you move slower or not at all, it drains slower. It's quite logical and if you ask me, worked out extremely well in Crysis.
well you obviously want ps to become more of a no-brainer, and i don't. what you want is basically giving camo users a reward for being too stupid to use camo with the right timing and in the right location (which would require some recon and experience) and making the merc's job harder against unskilled players.
How does it make it harder? sadly if you move that doesn't mean you are "skilled". I like the idea of being able to stand still longer it makes the game more dynamic.
so not moving makes the game more dynamic?
Yes. You are more free to stand still in the middle of a room while a Merc passes you.
Quote from: Rambo on May 23, 2008, 09:33:07 PM
that's exactly my point: there's no need to make camo more of a no-brainer gadget. if camo turns out to drain energy too fast for a good player, just make it drain energy slower. but don't add some stupid pro-camping noob feature ffs.
Yeah, because we should all fear those 1337 n00b camping spy tactics... ::)
Seriously Rambo, I'm not even sure why you seem so afraid of n00bs. You want to get rid of the uzi and shotgun which you consider noob weapons, and you're afraid of strengthening n00b tactics that never worked well in the first place.
Why do you care so much about noob tactics? Are you losing to them routinely or what?
It seems you just want to nerf everything that is different from your own playstyle. Seriously, man, it's okay if people use spy gadgets other than smoke/chaff/cams/heartbeat.
Camo was balanced for the low res xbox, and it's just not as effective on a high-res PC display. A little bost isn't going to break the game.
Rambo is right. Why add a strength to campers? The thing that will ACTUALLY make the game more dynamic is action... not camping.
Quote from: Rambo on May 24, 2008, 09:10:54 PM
a moving spy appears on motion tracking vision, a stationary spy does not.
Afaik he will trigger the MT only on the fasterst speed, and in any other he will be quite blurry.
IMO this promotes moving.
Spy using camo should not be visible on MT no matter if he moves or not cause he can be seen on EMV. Thats a way to prevent whoring one vision.
there's already another better one: not showing a static spy at all.
invisible: i'm not afraid of noobs, i just can't see the benefit of making gadgets more of a no-brainer.
Quote from: Rambo on May 25, 2008, 05:14:29 PM
there's already another better one: not showing a static spy at all.
invisible: i'm not afraid of noobs, i just can't see the benefit of making gadgets more of a no-brainer.
Come on, that little change does not make camo a no-brainer at all.
+1 you still have to think, it just makes timing easier.
Quote from: Rambo on May 24, 2008, 10:29:15 PM
well you obviously want ps to become more of a no-brainer, and i don't. what you want is basically giving camo users a reward for being too stupid to use camo with the right timing and in the right location (which would require some recon and experience) and making the merc's job harder against unskilled players.
Because camo was invented in CT. You're right, as usual and the whole forum will bow down. Camo is the worst item to have right now aside from snares b/c they don't work well. This wouldn't be a no brainer, it would still waste energy AND time...2 of the most vital things to a spy aside from lives. Just because camo drains slower when the spy is at a standstill doesn't make it easier for the nubs. Realize that energy is STILL draining and as you move it drains quicker. If anything it will become harder because you have to plan your every movement to correspond with camo....and you have no clue what kind of traps/mines are around, which takes away from the use of camo.
Quote from: Rambo on May 25, 2008, 05:14:29 PM
there's already another better one: not showing a static spy at all.
Not showing a static spy at all makes it more of a no brainer than the drain time that you're so worried about.
invisible: i'm not afraid of noobs, i just can't see the benefit of making gadgets more of a no-brainer.
there are plenty of simpler and better ways to boost camo:
-fixing eax-superhearing, emf ghosting and mt godliness
-making camo less visible
-make energy drain slower (but not depending on the speed)
what you either do with energy drawing based on speed is either punishing people that move with camo or reward people that don't move with it. i'm of the opinion that in the map design we know from ct there is enough cover everywhere that can be reached with camo in time before there is no energy left. there is also a simple counter to a moving spy with camo: motion tracking vision. so i can't see any reason besides people's lack of timing skills to change camo in that crysis-style way.
Quote from: Rambo on May 25, 2008, 08:12:20 PM
there are plenty of simpler and better ways to boost camo:
-fixing eax-superhearing, emf ghosting and mt godliness
-making camo less visible
-make energy drain slower (but not depending on the speed)
what you either do with energy drawing based on speed is either punishing people that move with camo or reward people that don't move with it. i'm of the opinion that in the map design we know from ct there is enough cover everywhere that can be reached with camo in time before there is no energy left. there is also a simple counter to a moving spy with camo: motion tracking vision. so i can't see any reason besides people's lack of timing skills to change camo in that crysis-style way.
dude its not about rewarding spies that are standing still with camo, its about making camo more dynamic. You can decide, either have it drain quicklier but get to your target faster, or have it drain slowlier and reach your target later/wait for the merc for a longer time.
Sounds like a good idea to me.
Camo and Snares are tools for experienced players. Don't even think about making them newb friendly. If you want to make Project Stealth "newb friendly" give the spies a fucking rocket launcher.. :X
The problem with Camo and Snares is not that the idea is wrong, the execution is wrong. Players can hear a spy shooting a snare or activating his Camo suit all around the map. The easy fix for this would be to remove or reduce the activation sound of the suit or snares. Also, there are two ways to use snares: to create chaos or to create distraction. That's why the snares quantity should be "fixed" to 15 snares. This way you can spam the mercs hud at least 5 times.
But enough about snares, to fix camo just remove it's activation noise. I think that will fix a lot of things already. For "new" ideas like the energy draining being connected to the moving speed you should playtest to see if those are any good.
~Neverdown.
affirmative
Ehhh... cool. But what about my idea for a pretty balanced IMO camo?
I mean that the distance you can travel on camo should stay the same, while only altering the battery drining speed and keeping the spy 100% hidden wether he's creeping or running at full speed.
A secondary for camo, maybe?
It shouldn't be a huge distance, though. Maybe 3-5 meters?
so you want to reduce the maximum camo distance to 5m AND allow running with it??? seriously dude...
Calling Crysis' camo suit is a gigantic overstatement. It took a brain and planning to know when to stop and let it recharge, when to move, how fast to move, where to move, etc... Quit exaggerating the "BAD" effects this will have on gameplay. The good effects shine way over the so called "bad" effects anyways. Crysis camo worked out extremely well, and don't say it's a different kind of game. I'm talking about the camo suit and not the game in general.
Crysis Suit: Turn on to sneak across open areas.
CT Suit: Turn on to sneak across open areas.
They are used for the same exact friggin purpose, Crysis' suit wasn't completely noob friendly as you say it is Rambo, and it doesn't reward campers. Anyone who camps is going to accomplish nothing as a spy. So, what's your problem?
my problem is your ignorance
Quote from: Rambo on May 25, 2008, 08:12:20 PM
there are plenty of simpler and better ways to boost camo:
-fixing eax-superhearing, emf ghosting and mt godliness
-making camo less visible
-make energy drain slower (but not depending on the speed)
I'd definitely be for those options instead of less drain while standing still. Personally I don't really see the point of less drain standing still if we use the new MT anyway. Less drain for slower movemetn would help with the old MT, since often times you had to really creep on camo, and it would run out on you. With the new MT idea, it'd be somewhat nice I guess, but I don't really see it doing much.
I really don't see the magical camo ambush points that would be so powerful. I mean, if you're looking to ambush an unexpecting merc, you just do back to the wall and he comes out and you grab him, camo or not. If the merc knows you're around and is expecting an ambush, then camo won't help you much.
Making camo less visible and fixing the superhearing I think would be a lot better ways to actually improve camo. Though the visibility issue is something that we'll have to watch carefully, since that may actually break it if it's too hard to see.
The energy drain thing is something that really can't break the gadget. You can pretty much allow camo to drain almost no energy and it still won't be broken as it is now. Right now the energy drain doesn't really do much aside from inconvenience the spy and make him less able to SS the merc if he gets discovered. Aside from that, seriously who really cares? You have to decloak to fire your SS, run or drop a nade.
Quote from: Rambo on May 26, 2008, 12:21:06 AM
my problem is your ignorance
Yet another very productive and convincing post. Extremely effective counter, Rambo. When all else fails attempt to flame your opponent eh?
What invisible said was this in a nutshell: The camo suit's draining speed based on speed of the spy's movement isn't even a huge problem, nor would it present a huge problem if it were changed to a style similar to Crysis. There are even more problems with it that could be solved to help it become a better gadget.
And I completely agree with that.
Crysis camo is very logical too. Moving too fast disables camo in CT. Don't you think not moving at all should have a slower drain rate? Like Crysis?
You haven't given a single reason at all as to why this would break gameplay. It doesn't even reward campers. It just doesn't punish them or give them the same treatment as a moving spy, and that is a fast energy drain rate. And seriously rambo, you are contradicting yourself big time. You say to decrease the drain speed, so that rewards campers and movers. But wait, aren't you so against a spy camping in one spot so he isn't seen? - at least against letting them camp there for longer? Increasing the spy's energy does just that, let a camo using spy camp in one spot for a longer period of time.
I hope you try to continue this discussion, and not try to start a flame war.
Quote from: Rambo on May 26, 2008, 12:21:06 AM
my problem is your ignorance
The truth is spoken. Papa, have you ever noticed how you just ignore other comments and arguements, and never consider how this might benefit the game? All you do is try to promote yourself because are the kewlest and the smartest.
papa, i've given very good reasons why your idea is idiotic. i've also suggested a good way to fix camo. it's really not my fault that you are too ignorant/stupid/lazy to read/understand my points.
here's another way to look at it that you might better understand: give players the freedom to do anything they want to in the camo-timer time. you always use your variety-point in the bullshit context of adding new gadgets/weapons, but oddly not here on a single gadget where it fits way better.
punishing movement or rewarding camping limits players' choices to use this gadget. besides, it makes it more flexible to use against unexpectedly appearing mercs which is a bad thing cause their skill should be rewarded, too (or your lack of recon should be punished). it also cripples the maximum possibilities of camo for pro-players for no good reason at all (merc not using mt/only using camnet => can't make any real use of that because going faster to move a larger distance undetected makes energy drain faster).
read my old posts and this one, and if you still don't get it, at least i can say i've tried everything i can. i won't definitely repeat myself for you on camo again.
Stop the discussion. There is only one thing that needs to be changed (the sound, in case you couldn't figure) and the rest (like ^movement = ^energy draining) should be finetuned by playtesting. Just use this topic for creation of ideas about things that should be playTESTED and the devs will see what works out when they actually start playtesting.
Aggree with Neverdown. Also, will there be any customizable uscript in PS?
We dont know if we will release the UScript. That'll probably be decided when we're close to a release.
What are UScripts?
Unreal script - used for altering game variables, creating mutators etc.
Quote from: Blank Man on May 26, 2008, 01:35:57 AM
Quote from: Rambo on May 26, 2008, 12:21:06 AM
my problem is your ignorance
The truth is spoken. Papa, have you ever noticed how you just ignore other comments and arguements, and never consider how this might benefit the game? All you do is try to promote yourself because are the kewlest and the smartest.
Are you kidding me? Rambo is a hypocrite by saying I'm ignorant then he completely ignores my post and does not counter it in any way. YOU HAVE GIVEN NO REASONS TO PROVE ME WRONG. None. You just said: "Oh why reward campers", "If you are dumb enough to stop then you deserve bla bla bla" And I countered them. Blank Man, you are sooo out of touch and have no idea what you are talking about. Please, stay out of this before you get burned again.
edit: papaskull, it's pointless trying to lead a reasonable discussion with you, at least im done with it for now. i won't anymore wast half of my time on this forum trying to make you understand basic stuff.
It's both of you. And it's been annoying me for quite some time now. Can't you take a break from PS?
no, it's not both of us, it's only him. if some1 comes up with a good point that counters mine, i'll admit that i was wrong and shut up about that matter. but papaskull obviously loves to blow a 1-2 page d. to a repetative 20 page discussion. but since his brain won't grow over night, i guess i just have to stop taking his shit serious.
Quote from: Rambo on May 26, 2008, 09:29:07 PM
no, it's not both of us, it's only him.
No, it's seriously both of you. Sometimes I feel like you're both two 8 year olds arguing back and forth.
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on May 26, 2008, 09:43:51 PM
Quote from: Rambo on May 26, 2008, 09:29:07 PM
no, it's not both of us, it's only him.
No, it's seriously both of you. Sometimes I feel like you're both two 8 year olds arguing back and forth.
+1
our arguments would be over in no time if he could see how much my points pwn his bullshit. so instead of flaming me for coming up with good points, you could tell papa that i'm right so he's more likely to shut up.
As a moderator I am not here to judge the validity of your arguments. I do know that I dont want to see half a page of bickering and flaming.
Last 2 replies removed. Thread locked.
@Rambo, there's more freedom of speech here than on SCL. It's just the way you word things. But I dont mind you going there.