Hey I have few questions about UDK:
1. Will it be possible to create walls so that when you drop a chaff it doesn't chaff through the walls?
2. Will it be possible to create doors like in SCDA versus, when you run through them they open on the body contact and close?
3. Is it possible to make Lasers that can do damage upon contact to the spies only and then make some sort of a trigger if hacked they will damage both of the teams or vice versa?
4. Will it be possible to make destructible walls that after destroyed and after some time they re-build/respawn?
5. Is it possible to make a Security Camera work together with the camnet? (Example: Placing a security camera will detect the spy if in the area, and then a mercenary can look through camnet and see exactly what the camera is looking at.)
That all thanks in advanced.
All is theoretically possible.
1: Possible, but depends on the programming of the effect. Don't see a reason for it. So currently no.
2: That's all for the mapmaker
3: That's all for the mapmaker I think.
4: Why would you want it to rebuild? All for the map maker.
5: Security cams and camnet should not overlap. Theorectically possible, but I dont think we'll put that in.
Hm...
The last question doesn't bother me that much, but the first one very does, that not very freedom--ish?
Quote from: Limerick on December 28, 2010, 09:34:13 PM
I recall hearing in thse forums chaff doesn';t bleed through walls anyway, so no need for walls, invisible or visible, to block chaff.
Wtf? What on earth are you on about???
Quote from: DreadStunLock on December 28, 2010, 10:12:37 PM
Quote from: Limerick on December 28, 2010, 09:34:13 PM
I recall hearing in thse forums chaff doesn';t bleed through walls anyway, so no need for walls, invisible or visible, to block chaff.
Wtf? What on earth are you on about???
He's talking about the fact of an idea i proposed long ago about the fact that chaff shouldn't be able to go through walls and that the dev's did agree upon it because it's not realistic / just cheap.
I'm pretty sure EMR can go through walls. How else would cellphones work? how else would EMF vision work?
Quote from: DreadStunLock on December 28, 2010, 04:21:03 PM
Hey I have few questions about UDK:
1. Will it be possible to create walls so that when you drop a chaff it doesn't chaff through the walls?
2. Will it be possible to create doors like in SCDA versus, when you run through them they open on the body contact and close?
3. Is it possible to make Lasers that can do damage upon contact to the spies only and then make some sort of a trigger if hacked they will damage both of the teams or vice versa?
4. Will it be possible to make destructible walls that after destroyed and after some time they re-build/respawn?
5. Is it possible to make a Security Camera work together with the camnet? (Example: Placing a security camera will detect the spy if in the area, and then a mercenary can look through camnet and see exactly what the camera is looking at.)
That all thanks in advanced.
ehm I am strongly against the idea of chaff not goin thru walls. It was giving the game this nice little taste("it's not a bug, it's a feature!"). I mean the pros could put the chaffs on the first floor to get thru the cams on the ground floor and "me watching" could admire!
For most of the other stuff you asked dread some of them you can do right now.
Quote from: puuusianka on December 29, 2010, 10:13:43 AM
Quote from: DreadStunLock on December 28, 2010, 04:21:03 PM
Hey I have few questions about UDK:
1. Will it be possible to create walls so that when you drop a chaff it doesn't chaff through the walls?
2. Will it be possible to create doors like in SCDA versus, when you run through them they open on the body contact and close?
3. Is it possible to make Lasers that can do damage upon contact to the spies only and then make some sort of a trigger if hacked they will damage both of the teams or vice versa?
4. Will it be possible to make destructible walls that after destroyed and after some time they re-build/respawn?
5. Is it possible to make a Security Camera work together with the camnet? (Example: Placing a security camera will detect the spy if in the area, and then a mercenary can look through camnet and see exactly what the camera is looking at.)
That all thanks in advanced.
ehm I am strongly against the idea of chaff not goin thru walls. It was giving the game this nice little taste("it's not a bug, it's a feature!"). I mean the pros could put the chaffs on the first floor to get thru the cams on the ground floor and "me watching" could admire!
For most of the other stuff you asked dread some of them you can do right now.
Already good players use that ;]
@Down
You can't just build fat wall?
Quote from: puuusianka on December 29, 2010, 10:13:43 AM
Quote from: DreadStunLock on December 28, 2010, 04:21:03 PM
Hey I have few questions about UDK:
1. Will it be possible to create walls so that when you drop a chaff it doesn't chaff through the walls?
2. Will it be possible to create doors like in SCDA versus, when you run through them they open on the body contact and close?
3. Is it possible to make Lasers that can do damage upon contact to the spies only and then make some sort of a trigger if hacked they will damage both of the teams or vice versa?
4. Will it be possible to make destructible walls that after destroyed and after some time they re-build/respawn?
5. Is it possible to make a Security Camera work together with the camnet? (Example: Placing a security camera will detect the spy if in the area, and then a mercenary can look through camnet and see exactly what the camera is looking at.)
That all thanks in advanced.
ehm I am strongly against the idea of chaff not goin thru walls. It was giving the game this nice little taste("it's not a bug, it's a feature!"). I mean the pros could put the chaffs on the first floor to get thru the cams on the ground floor and "me watching" could admire!
For most of the other stuff you asked dread some of them you can do right now.
READ YOU NOOB! Both types of the walls should be able to be built! It's up to the mappers choice...
Sorry for misunderstanding. But here came into my mind the fact that it wasn't up to map maker in SCCT because it was engine failure.
Anyway no need to call people names, it's still Christmas you know :P.
Quote from: puuusianka on December 29, 2010, 11:29:38 AM
Sorry for misunderstanding. But here came into my mind the fact that it wasn't up to map maker in SCCT because it was engine failure.
Anyway no need to call people names, it's still Christmas you know :P.
Ja it is :) I am sorry pussyanka :) Anyway, It would make sense allowing such walls because then you can add an objectives for mercenaries specifically place unpassable Laser/Poison mines, that way it would resolve some issues of maps being unbalanced.
That's the fault of the maps then. If you want a part to be accessible by chaff, try putting a fence or gaps in the wall. I'm not sure if that'll work ok, butit has a bigger chance of working.
I think the idea might be good but at the same time I can almost make a bet there will be bugs around this stuff again. Personally I would leave it just as it is. Unreal engine is buggy so even making two opitions for one thing might make some problems and issues that were never discovered before. Adding the fact that walls from brushes and staticmesh walls has different prroperties I don't think this could work well. It's just like the light issues in CT where static lights are goin thru walls and portals cause something fucked up in the engine
puuu, please don't compare UE 2.5 with 3.5.
Same developer... I am just curious ;)
Quote from: AgentX_003 on December 29, 2010, 01:01:49 AM
Quote from: DreadStunLock on December 28, 2010, 10:12:37 PM
Quote from: Limerick on December 28, 2010, 09:34:13 PM
I recall hearing in thse forums chaff doesn';t bleed through walls anyway, so no need for walls, invisible or visible, to block chaff.
Wtf? What on earth are you on about???
He's talking about the fact of an idea i proposed long ago about the fact that chaff shouldn't be able to go through walls and that the dev's did agree upon it because it's not realistic / just cheap.
AgentX@ Don't deny it, you do use it.
Anyway the point is, the more freedom you give the better the maps get, I don't want to put fat ass hell walls because it will make the map plain ugly that way.
I was thinking about Star Wars: Force Unleashed 2, and it hit me, make a map that has as much destructibility as possible, imagine every grenade you throw something blows up. That would be one awesome map. And if make the particles respawn, that means it happens everytime and make something like a sand area where you throw a grenade and particles go up, and make it so the smoke from grenade combines with the sand, obscures the vision sight in that small area. Would be very tactical in my opinion.
Quote from: frvge on December 28, 2010, 06:06:42 PM
1: Possible, but depends on the programming of the effect. Don't see a reason for it. So currently no.
Correction, the chaff particle system already doesn't go through walls, nor does smoke, etc. MR.Mic made it that way.
Quote from: LennardF1989 on December 29, 2010, 03:49:28 PM
Quote from: frvge on December 28, 2010, 06:06:42 PM
1: Possible, but depends on the programming of the effect. Don't see a reason for it. So currently no.
Correction, the chaff particle system already doesn't go through walls, nor does smoke, etc. MR.Mic made it that way.
NO! NO! NO! How could you?! Why?! You... You... <<Faint...>>
Quote from: LennardF1989 on December 29, 2010, 03:49:28 PM
Quote from: frvge on December 28, 2010, 06:06:42 PM
1: Possible, but depends on the programming of the effect. Don't see a reason for it. So currently no.
Correction, the chaff particle system already doesn't go through walls, nor does smoke, etc. MR.Mic made it that way.
Now is it possible to make a wall that does allow it to go through? That excludes the bullet shots and grenade explosions.
Do explosions go through walls in real life?
The behaviour of the effects is IN the effects. In this case, the particles are set to collide with BSP and static meshes.
You could maybe set some weird kind of collision box that does not block particles but blocks everything else. I dunno. Anyway: it's STUPID. Use a fence or holes in a static mesh.
Quote from: frvge on December 29, 2010, 05:16:23 PM
Do explosions go through walls in real life?
The behaviour of the effects is IN the effects. In this case, the particles are set to collide with BSP and static meshes.
You could maybe set some weird kind of collision box that does not block particles but blocks everything else. I dunno. Anyway: it's STUPID. Use a fence or holes in a static mesh.
Can I make holes in static meshes without the holes? So there are holes technically but you can't see them? No matter what vision?
IIRC it depends on your collision model. So if you get that 'right', it might go through. Still weird. If you throw confettis at a wall in real life, the wall blocks the confettis.
Frvge....ok you went there..
If you get shot in a latex suit you would be permantently slowed, if you get 2 shots you would probably die and not a single medkit with a little can of pills will help.
Noone places mines in real world on the walls for them to beep.
You can't dodge a mine by running at it and straight away turn around because the shrapnel will kill you.
If a spy has a sticky shocker it would shock you permanently to the point where you will unconcious on the ground.
Real life spies do not use non-lethal weapons, they will bring a knife and kill you, and not a single security task force will help you, because stealth wins.
Noone will drop a flashbang near their feet because it will damage them more than a mercenary, same goes for the smoke.
When you get shot by a rifle that has a sniper attachment you will probably get a knockback atleast 10 feet.
So realism isn't really what you want to discuss with confettis....
That is part of the suspension of belief. AKA it has to be there for the game to work.
If the level is set-up correctly, chaff does not need super power abilities like penetrating a thick wall in some magical way.
If you have other ideas to get rid of the things you mentioned that would not compromise balance issues, please speak up. I'm interested.
Quote from: frvge on December 29, 2010, 06:38:07 PM
That is part of the suspension of belief. AKA it has to be there for the game to work.
If the level is set-up correctly, chaff does not need super power abilities like penetrating a thick wall in some magical way.
If you have other ideas to get rid of the things you mentioned that would not compromise balance issues, please speak up. I'm interested.
Well it would be absolutely amazing if it was possible to somehow make shooting damage a bit more realistic, for example being able to make a wall/window if you shoot the bullets bounce off and ofcourse can damage you too.
When you shoot a spy, he shoot get adrenaline to be able to run faster if he has health above 50% and after that slow down considerably and somehow make a balance there?
Not being able to run to the mine and quickly turn back without getting killed, cause that is ridicilously unreal.
About the chaff, no problem it can work, that way as well as, there won't be such BS when you chase a spy he can kite you continuesly.
I've never seen a single level where you could shoot through the metallic vents and the spy didn't have to sneak so the dust doesn't fall, there is one in station but the dust goes down off it, which doesn't make much sense.
Limiting visions and give mercenaries an energy bar and somehow refil that energy, I don't really believe that it should automatically regenerate? What they are carrying somekind of a generator? Pooping recycled into electricity? Same for spies, there can be a gadget for extra clips and take up the slot.
Mercenaries can get their energy from ammo depots.
Being able to choose the amount of gadgets you want to bring, and the less you bring the lighter you are.
Why are the mercenaries wearing a flat jacket? Maybe it's for the safety reasons of not knowing what's going on, but I am sure there is a contract that they will be dealing with non-lethal spies? So that makes sense.
Maybe the whole Medkit thing is a total bull***
Those are actually quite good points.
Some of your points break balance.
We're aiming at the near-future. So about 50 years in the future. Batteries should be more than capable of powering a vision and flashlight for 12 minutes =/
We will see about THIN metal being prone to weapon-fire. However, that needs to be visualized too to set it apart from unbreakable metal, so it will not be in PS in the near future. Interesting idea for a later release.
Windows/walls breaking down = mappers using Kismet. As said in the Lakehouse Dev video from Zedblade, some chairs and tables will be destructable.
A Spy getting adrenaline is a bit SCDA-ish and is uncommon in shooters. We're not aiming for realism, just realistic. There's a difference between those two definitions.
The mine thingy depends. If you get too close to a bomb, you can die. If you are further away, you might lose health. If you are out of range for some reason, you don't get hurt. The way to combat what you say is simple: blast radius should be bigger than the trigger radius + the radius the Spy can run in the alotted time between the trigger and the actual explosion. Tada.
Being lighter with less gadgets: We're no RPG. We need SOME consistency. Else it becomes a guessing game based on luck which is exactly what we try to combat by getting rid of uncontrollable things like funny punches and lag charges.
I prefer medkit over normal auto-generation. Some auto-generation is fine, but only up to a certain limit.
Ok Frvge, let me set up a mine in real life, and I will probably draw a line of it's detonating radius, even when you get passed the detonation radius just 1mm, and run back, I would like to see you managing to stand up, because the shrapnel will probably make you bleed to death, and no matter how muscled up you are, against the shrapnel that won't help.
The window thing, you probably didn't get it, I mean an actual danger of firing your weapon:
For example, A mercenary is chasing a spy, he squeezes his trigger the bullets hit the window/wall and the bullets bounce off depending on it's trajectory and if that trajectory is straight it means the bullet will bounce of and might hit or even headshot the mercenary itself, get it?
Near the future? Ok that actually cleared stuff up that makes sense.
Adrenaline? Maybe you are right about the SCDA, but you haven't notice the fact that there is Adrenaline rush in SCCT, whenever a spy gets shot, he does run (wee) bit faster than usual and I don't see it really breaking the balance since the spy aggro will be a lot less in PS since we covered that the chaff through wall won't work (Thank you Mr.Mic, Haha Pusianka)
There should be no Auto-regeneration, there should be instead bleeding, bleeding to the point of where you can see and trail the blood.
Medkits? I think since we are in the future there should be a some sort of a "Liquid-health-tank-regeneration-think" And since it's in the future it especially shouldn't have "insta-heal" to the medkit.
Why not something more unique? How about:
A big box, with a big tube, and at the end of the tube there is a needle, through the tube there will be running somekind of a blue liquid (pardon George Lucas for copyright of the Blue Bacta) that will go inside the spy and gradually filling up his health, and not instantly, that will make the spy wait and be in danger.
Also we all know the infection that can bring if you don't seal the wound of where the healing process starts and if a spy runs off it get's ripped out and he can suffer some damage even after being healed, so why not do a penalty, for example:
Spy has 10% HP
Spy goes to a Medhub.
Spy gets healed to 40% HP
Spy has detected a mercenary and he is tazing him as soon as being detected and run off.
Spy doesn't get a full heal, he runs of with the needle being ripped off his hand and the wound isn't fully sealed. (That doesn't necesseraly should mean that the blood would give mercenaries a trail) It would simply mean the spy loses 5-10 or maybe even 15% of his health. But hey, that is still better than 10%, at least he gets away with 20%/25%/30% or whatever the damage penalty is.
Also what are your current plans for grenades being shot out? Will it be like in SCCT you can shoot 3 grenades instantly? Maybe you guys can make it so we can shoot as many as we can? Why not? If we shoot out of stupidity 5 smokes, 5 chaffs, 5 Flashbangs we left ourselfs useless.
Quote from: Limerick on December 29, 2010, 10:18:22 PM
1 Word: Epinephrine.
That's the same. In non-English-based countries it's adrenaline, from the Latin roots.
@Dread: we've covered most of those points like 2 years ago and I'm not really in the mood for doing that discusson all over. However, a few short lines:
Ricocheting bullets: we're not a simulation. It also adds luck into a strategic game. Luck is bad in a skill-based game. So no.
There's AFAIK no adrenaline rush in SCCT. Just a messed up animation for 1 sec. Besides, running with a bullet is usually slower (I use movies as a reference now, but meh).
The premise behind the small auto-generation is with small needles like in Half-Life 2. Basically what you describe.
Trails of blood break up the balance too much. Maybe a few small drips on the floor to indicate the Spy was hit at that point, but nothing like a trail.
No idea about the grenade system. Probably the same as SCCT. That worked ok.
Now I am more worried about the whole game then I was before reading this thread...
What? Why? I don't get it =/. NOTHING of the likes of the stuff mentioned here has been actually implemented. Sure, the big systems are in place and working (yay for us), but these are minor details that are mostly just tweaking of parameters (in either code or Kismet or the Editor) or a few extra lines of code.
How cams will work in PS?
It will be possible to QuickCam as in CT ( it requires a lot of skill and practice to make perfect cams, the same is with quickmasking as merc )
How about DemoRecording to improve moviemaking, I would like to have settings where i can replay my games and delete hud, clock, objectives or anything else.
It's always better record a game via Demo and then record it and upload somewhere ( You don't have to care about FPS loss while recording ).
And why our community couldn't make same good movies as we can see in CoD4? ;)
About mines, how will proxy works, if we can't chaff trought wall while "rushing"? It will be possible to disable mine while it makes short *DIDI* before *KABOOM* ? I know there will be different types of "nades throwing" but sometimes quickest drop is the best spy's weapon aganist merc.
And I would know more how you do sounds in PS, that's most fucked up thing in CT so I think community will have a lot of ideas of balancing it out. :)
Peace!
PS. About medkits, CTs medkits FTW :D But we'll see.
To boost stealth-based play instead of aggro, cams will take a little longer to deploy or maybe it takes a little longer before the gas is ready to use. This means you need to set up traps and lure the Merc in.
I think demo recording is possible. I don't know the details.
As for disabling mines: I don't know if there's time between the first beep and the actual explosion. Playtesting will determine that.
We hope to do sounds well. I'm personally responsible for the footstep sounds. Those will be spatialized at the place where the foot hit the ground. It's not attached to the character. My current code has it so that each foot can be at a different material and plays a different sound when walking. Next things are actually spatializing the sounds (there are multiple in random order already) and then basing the volume on the speed of the character. We can already add different sounds for a roll on metal, a roll on concrete etc and a footstep on metal, a footstep on concrete etc.
Ehm frvge this how I see this whole problem. You guys have some complexes about people who play aggro style because you prefer it the other way around. This should be player's choice how he plays. Game sometimes determine the situations when you have to go aggro(Especially when you have to get away or help your mate who is attacked by two fat mercenaries). I really think that some of those innovations made by devs(even with good intentions) might screw up the game.
The End
Mythbusters actually investigated the effect of an explosion on human health (and how safe you would be under water). If I recall correctly, even the smallest explosion would physically hurt a human at a distance of 100 meters due to it's shockwave, which was way beyond the blast radius.
Quote from: DreadStunLock on December 29, 2010, 06:34:03 PM
Frvge....ok you went there..
If you get shot in a latex suit you would be permantently slowed, if you get 2 shots you would probably die and not a single medkit with a little can of pills will help.
Noone places mines in real world on the walls for them to beep. You're wrong on that because guess what ? its called a tripwire mine . commonly used by special ops, besides who are you to say that proxmity mines don't exist in the field ? Im pretty sure they do . a c4 wired with sensors end of story.
You can't dodge a mine by running at it and straight away turn around because the shrapnel will kill you.
If a spy has a sticky shocker it would shock you permanently to the point where you will unconcious on the ground. that depends on the voltage.
Real life spies do not use non-lethal weapons, they will bring a knife and kill you, and not a single security task force will help you, because stealth wins.The sticky camera is a non-lethal weapon.. which would be a definete option to by pass the merc. A Knife or gun isn't used in versus because the game would be over in less then a minute.
Noone will drop a flashbang near their feet because it will damage them more than a mercenary, same goes for the smoke. If a spy were to drop a flashbang and they were using thermal vision It wouldn't effect them. A smoke gernade would cause vision to blur and watering of the eyes but that's why they invented a device called the gas mask.
When you get shot by a rifle that has a sniper attachment you will probably get a knockback atleast 10 feet. depends on the distance, besides a bullet to the head is a bullet to the head and also you should take on the factor of the mass of the person.
So realism isn't really what you want to discuss with confettis....
Quote from: frvge on December 29, 2010, 11:53:04 PM
To boost stealth-based play instead of aggro, cams will take a little longer to deploy or maybe it takes a little longer before the gas is ready to use. This means you need to set up traps and lure the Merc in.
I think demo recording is possible. I don't know the details.
As for disabling mines: I don't know if there's time between the first beep and the actual explosion. Playtesting will determine that.
We hope to do sounds well. I'm personally responsible for the footstep sounds. Those will be spatialized at the place where the foot hit the ground. It's not attached to the character. My current code has it so that each foot can be at a different material and plays a different sound when walking. Next things are actually spatializing the sounds (there are multiple in random order already) and then basing the volume on the speed of the character. We can already add different sounds for a roll on metal, a roll on concrete etc and a footstep on metal, a footstep on concrete etc.
I would to say you, drop sound
in ct you drop from 20-30cm and it's a fucking loud sound of that, I understand if you jump down from 1 or two meters, but from not even a half?
Just a idea for your PS work :P And Btw. from CT experience i must say you DISABLE (MUTE 0%VOLUME OR EVEN A -100% VOLUME ) of slow walk sounds... in ct they are hearable <- another stupid "bug" ;D
Quote from: AgentX_003 on December 30, 2010, 12:56:31 AM
Quote from: DreadStunLock on December 29, 2010, 06:34:03 PM
Frvge....ok you went there..
If you get shot in a latex suit you would be permantently slowed, if you get 2 shots you would probably die and not a single medkit with a little can of pills will help.
Noone places mines in real world on the walls for them to beep. You're wrong on that because guess what ? its called a tripwire mine . commonly used by special ops, besides who are you to say that proxmity mines don't exist in the field ? Im pretty sure they do . a c4 wired with sensors end of story.
You can't dodge a mine by running at it and straight away turn around because the shrapnel will kill you.
If a spy has a sticky shocker it would shock you permanently to the point where you will unconcious on the ground. that depends on the voltage.
Real life spies do not use non-lethal weapons, they will bring a knife and kill you, and not a single security task force will help you, because stealth wins.The sticky camera is a non-lethal weapon.. which would be a definete option to by pass the merc. A Knife or gun isn't used in versus because the game would be over in less then a minute.
Noone will drop a flashbang near their feet because it will damage them more than a mercenary, same goes for the smoke. If a spy were to drop a flashbang and they were using thermal vision It wouldn't effect them. A smoke gernade would cause vision to blur and watering of the eyes but that's why they invented a device called the gas mask.
When you get shot by a rifle that has a sniper attachment you will probably get a knockback atleast 10 feet. depends on the distance, besides a bullet to the head is a bullet to the head and also you should take on the factor of the mass of the person.
So realism isn't really what you want to discuss with confettis....
Ok I am going to have my rage on, Agent are you fucking my mind? Is that your option?
Trip wire, is not a fucking laser mine in SCCT, who is going to use a goddamn trip wire bomb in a goddamn facility room like a hotel? Or an abandonded factory which could be ranging from 10-500 years old?
C4 for that matter, C4 is not a proximity mine it takes a hell of a lot more time to place, Proximity mines in CT take a second to place without any kind of a bull***, yes it is the future but you do realise a C4 can blow the whole building sky high?
"Real life spies do not use non-lethal weapons, they will bring a knife and kill you, and not a single security task force will help you, because stealth wins.
The sticky camera is a non-lethal weapon.. which would be a definete option to by pass the merc. A Knife or gun isn't used in versus because the game would be over in less then a minute. "
I was talking about realism here, obviously CT/PS will not have that it's a balance issue.
What you just said is completely the biggest bullshit of not being able to read the post correctly ever.
Do you really think I didn't know that a knife won't break the balance for spies gameplay? No, I was suggesting to Frvge few facts about CT/PS realism flaw, but that was before I googled: Realistic, and Realism.
And final, Agent stop trying to be the Russian Mr.Cap ok?
Quote from: DreadStunLock on December 30, 2010, 11:20:36 AM
Quote from: AgentX_003 on December 30, 2010, 12:56:31 AM
Quote from: DreadStunLock on December 29, 2010, 06:34:03 PM
Frvge....ok you went there..
If you get shot in a latex suit you would be permantently slowed, if you get 2 shots you would probably die and not a single medkit with a little can of pills will help.
Noone places mines in real world on the walls for them to beep. You're wrong on that because guess what ? its called a tripwire mine . commonly used by special ops, besides who are you to say that proxmity mines don't exist in the field ? Im pretty sure they do . a c4 wired with sensors end of story.
You can't dodge a mine by running at it and straight away turn around because the shrapnel will kill you.
If a spy has a sticky shocker it would shock you permanently to the point where you will unconcious on the ground. that depends on the voltage.
Real life spies do not use non-lethal weapons, they will bring a knife and kill you, and not a single security task force will help you, because stealth wins.The sticky camera is a non-lethal weapon.. which would be a definete option to by pass the merc. A Knife or gun isn't used in versus because the game would be over in less then a minute.
Noone will drop a flashbang near their feet because it will damage them more than a mercenary, same goes for the smoke. If a spy were to drop a flashbang and they were using thermal vision It wouldn't effect them. A smoke gernade would cause vision to blur and watering of the eyes but that's why they invented a device called the gas mask.
When you get shot by a rifle that has a sniper attachment you will probably get a knockback atleast 10 feet. depends on the distance, besides a bullet to the head is a bullet to the head and also you should take on the factor of the mass of the person.
So realism isn't really what you want to discuss with confettis....
Ok I am going to have my rage on, Agent are you fucking my mind? Is that your option?
Trip wire, is not a fucking laser mine in SCCT, who is going to use a goddamn trip wire bomb in a goddamn facility room like a hotel? Or an abandonded factory which could be ranging from 10-500 years old?
C4 for that matter, C4 is not a proximity mine it takes a hell of a lot more time to place, Proximity mines in CT take a second to place without any kind of a bull***, yes it is the future but you do realise a C4 can blow the whole building sky high?
"Real life spies do not use non-lethal weapons, they will bring a knife and kill you, and not a single security task force will help you, because stealth wins.The sticky camera is a non-lethal weapon.. which would be a definete option to by pass the merc. A Knife or gun isn't used in versus because the game would be over in less then a minute. "
I was talking about realism here, obviously CT/PS will not have that it's a balance issue.
What you just said is completely the biggest bullshit of not being able to read the post correctly ever.
Do you really think I didn't know that a knife won't break the balance for spies gameplay? No, I was suggesting to Frvge few facts about CT/PS realism flaw, but that was before I googled: Realistic, and Realism.
And final, Agent stop trying to be the Russian Mr.Cap ok?
I lol'd , on top of that a C4 does not have that have that big of an impact as your talking about besides it all depends on how much dynamite/ more or less gun powder used in the device.
A balanced C4 will blow the lady liberty sky high.
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.theurbandaily.com%2Ffiles%2F2010%2F09%2Fmichael-jackson-eating-popcorn.gif&hash=f6f8d983bc34cd97ea1bad6dc08b86cb150e1fc8)
Robert is just right with C4, it's strong.
But really fuck realism, want realism go play ARMA, bfbc2 or whatever else.
Since Versus is nice without all walls destroyable till PS will be. ::)
LOL at my drunky english ;)
As well as, Trip wires are set in places where you can't see them, in a room that's being used by civilians you won't really be able to hide it that well, especially if you are equipped with thermal vision.
But the thing that is most annoying, is that the spies are able to kite Mercenaries, they can run around in circles keeping the spies busy and mercenaries in the end hardly even have a chance of killing them at all.
Quote from: Limerick on January 01, 2011, 09:55:08 PM
There are alot of Absolutes in this topic, i wonder what the margin of error is for the quoted effects of some of this gear is.
If there is so a lot of absolutes, explain why rather than writing without it being backed up.
Quote from: DreadStunLock on January 02, 2011, 12:21:05 AM
Quote from: Limerick on January 01, 2011, 09:55:08 PM
There are alot of Absolutes in this topic, i wonder what the margin of error is for the quoted effects of some of this gear is.
If there is so a lot of absolutes, explain why rather than writing without it being backed up.
That's why:
Quote from: Farley4Fan on December 31, 2010, 10:25:20 PM
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.theurbandaily.com%2Ffiles%2F2010%2F09%2Fmichael-jackson-eating-popcorn.gif&hash=f6f8d983bc34cd97ea1bad6dc08b86cb150e1fc8)
Quote from: puuusianka on January 02, 2011, 12:54:16 AM
Quote from: DreadStunLock on January 02, 2011, 12:21:05 AM
Quote from: Limerick on January 01, 2011, 09:55:08 PM
There are alot of Absolutes in this topic, i wonder what the margin of error is for the quoted effects of some of this gear is.
If there is so a lot of absolutes, explain why rather than writing without it being backed up.
That's why:
Quote from: Farley4Fan on December 31, 2010, 10:25:20 PM
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.theurbandaily.com%2Ffiles%2F2010%2F09%2Fmichael-jackson-eating-popcorn.gif&hash=f6f8d983bc34cd97ea1bad6dc08b86cb150e1fc8)
Farley's Jackson clone is a registered member on this forum :P
But that's me.
Quote from: DreadStunLock on December 29, 2010, 01:35:11 PM
Anyway the point is, the more freedom you give the better the maps get, I don't want to put fat ass hell walls because it will make the map plain ugly that way.
Actually, players come to expect a certain level of consistency in levels. e.g "that merc shot me through that airvent -> that merc can shoot me through all air vents", "my chaff went through that wall -> my chaff should go through all walls similar to that one". Putting more pressure on map makers to stick to those standards.
I was thinking about Star Wars: Force Unleashed 2, and it hit me, make a map that has as much destructibility as possible, imagine every grenade you throw something blows up. That would be one awesome map. And if make the particles respawn, that means it happens everytime and make something like a sand area where you throw a grenade and particles go up, and make it so the smoke from grenade combines with the sand, obscures the vision sight in that small area. Would be very tactical in my opinion.
I like the sand idea, but destructible environments are hard to do without engine support for it, if you go the other way and just make objects that can be shot down or exploded, you run back into the consistency problem again ("I can shoot this down onto the spy -> I can always shoot objects of that type down onto the spy"). Brainfart: Wouldn't it be cool if there were sandbags on the stage in lakehouse which could be shot down onto the spy?
Quote from: DreadStunLock on December 29, 2010, 06:34:03 PM
Frvge....ok you went there..
If you get shot in a latex suit you would be permantently slowed, if you get 2 shots you would probably die and not a single medkit with a little can of pills will help.
Noone places mines in real world on the walls for them to beep.
You can't dodge a mine by running at it and straight away turn around because the shrapnel will kill you.
If a spy has a sticky shocker it would shock you permanently to the point where you will unconcious on the ground.
Real life spies do not use non-lethal weapons, they will bring a knife and kill you, and not a single security task force will help you, because stealth wins.
Noone will drop a flashbang near their feet because it will damage them more than a mercenary, same goes for the smoke.
When you get shot by a rifle that has a sniper attachment you will probably get a knockback atleast 10 feet.
So realism isn't really what you want to discuss with confettis....
There's a difference. "Gameplay > Realism" however the player is gonna take their outside knowledge and try to learn the game building upon that. For example, the player will be used to being able to survive multiple shots in games, extremely resilient environments/maps and other oddities (why are the terminals placed in such weird locations, why don't they take in machine guns, etc). But the player would probably be surprised to find that walls aren't solid, gravity doesn't apply while crouched or maybe you can throw objects through walls and at other players but you yourself can't pass through. Stuff like physics is taken as standard.
As to the rest, Media (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BulletsDoNotWorkThatWay?from=Main.MagicBullets)has always taken (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PrettyLittleHeadshots)liberties (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BulletproofHumanShield)with weaponry (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ConcealmentEqualsCover).