Not long ago, I went back on DA and played a bit... to be honest I don't hate the game as some do... and I think it's worth some time... Like most I agree that removing the gadgets and the presence sensor killed the game but there are still stuff that are good change/new thing/improvement. This post is to discuss these changes to the SvsM game.
The key word here is discuss...
here are some good things I like and think they are wort been added or implemented in Ps (some are just part of something in Da since all isn't good) :
1- The night-vision with its "retina accommodation" when you look at a light with ur night-vision it's blinds you a bit for a short time (even if you remove it)
2- Heat-vision with the high speed "color drag"
3- Flashbang... smoke start by blinding the night-vision then heat-vision.... + the power and blind time is perfect
4- Flashlight you can focus it!!!!!
5- The smoke grenade stop a charge on it's track (only good change about the smoke)
6- Long charge with possibility of turning +++
7- No tazer... finally the spy has to run away from merc not just fight them like in a FPS (if not to remove the tazer put the sticky-shocker as a gadget or with a limited clip) when a spy see a merc it shouldn't be like I don't give a shit *taze*... it should be F*** I need to run.
8- Hacking light and window... it should be in PS (maybe even some objective hacking but I'm not so fan of it)
9- ESPACE MOVE.... cool + nice + fun + useful
10- Mercs berserk has a smaller hit radius and doesn't hit a spy jumping (come on it's just doesn't make any sense on hit a spy jumping on you)
11- Spy and Merc speed they are fast... game paste should be fast
12- Merc movement... turning, moving side ways slows him down
13- EMF vision has to "load up" before been useful but has a great range when loaded up... that so great
14-Sniper rifle (in snipe mode) has the perfect fire rate and no "breathing" (but it's should have recoil)
15- the jump-grab edge system is great, as is the way you move ur spy around
That's what I got up to now
I think SvsM should be more about strategy then pure "I play too much" skills
Strategy? What strategy can you accomplish with next to zero gadgets? DA had little to no strategy. Basically it was break in, try to hack, if they find you run like a chicken with your head cut off. Then if you do hack a full bar, you get to run like a chicken with your head cut off again. I agree with some of your points, however.
1. Yes, nice effect.
2. Nah, not a nice effect. Annoying.
3. What?
4. Totally. Nice feature.
5. Yeah, so do smokes in CT but DA it works better. Mainly because of the removal of the gasmask you see it happen more often in DA.
6. No. Absolutely not. It ruins the speed advantage spies have on mercs. And wtf? You have to be close to charge. That's the way it should be.
7. That sucks. Even if it were a shooter it would be third person ;) And that is one of the spy's key features. They dumbed the game down by doing this so that more people would be attracted to it. And that doesn't even make sense to me. A game where you have a ss gun is more attractive to me than a spy who can just run.
8. I LOVED that tbh. I would love to see the hack glove be a seperate gadget and it would have those abilities. Maybe not a gadget but maybe an alternative to the ss, like how mercs have alternative weapons. BUT the objective hacking was very flawed and I am sure that as a community we can come up with a better conclusion.
9. Yup. Those were sweet. Just make them slower.
10. That's for balance.
11. No. They were on crack, not fast.
12. Absolutely. Those are one of the small things no one notices.
13. No. EMF needs no nerf other than taking away its ghosting abilities.
14. CT sniping was better. Breath holding makes it so you have to time your shots.
15. Yes. No. The ledge system was good. I loved the way you could basically decide if you wanted to hang on to the rail, swing over it, or jump over it, although the escape dive move looked ridiculous. Like the spy was superman or something and could jump 15 feet. The way you move your spy was WAYY too fast. Like you have infinite speed boost from crysis or something.
I already said what I wanted to about strategy.
Sniper was kind of shitty in DA. Great post thought Test.
smoke stopping charge is one of the worst things you could do to this game.
the tazed-time after getting shocked is ok but you should be able to shoot at the time you are able to walk again, 3s is just too long.
Quote from: Gawain on February 05, 2008, 01:56:42 PM
smoke stopping charge is one of the worst things you could do to this game.
the tazed-time after getting shocked is ok but you should be able to shoot at the time you are able to walk again, 3s is just too long.
Smoke should slow down the charge (not stop it) if the merc isnt using gasmask.
To make it easier to dodge charges in smoke? That doesn't sound good.
Quote from: Overstatement on February 05, 2008, 11:04:38 PM
To make it easier to dodge charges in smoke? That doesn't sound good.
Why is that? You throw a smoke to get away, the merc slows down and starts coughing, but then miraculously runs fast through it and smashes your face.
agreed, charging into smoke should be ok, but not out or from it
Quote from: Papa Skull on February 05, 2008, 04:13:52 AM
Strategy? What strategy can you accomplish with next to zero gadgets? DA had little to no strategy. Basically it was break in, try to hack, if they find you run like a chicken with your head cut off. Then if you do hack a full bar, you get to run like a chicken with your head cut off again. I agree with some of your points, however.
13. No. EMF needs no nerf other than taking away its ghosting abilities.
it's not a nerf... you make it more powerfull (you can see far and clearly but it asks you to stay still a moment
and when you play againts good players in DA... it's all about strategy which gadget you take... where, when do you hack to get the most of it....
charging out of smoke is one of the most important actions against aggro...
i think the emf ghosting is too strong atm, but there must be some way to find out if there's a spy hiding in a ceiling. maybe the ghosting should become stronger the longer you stand still. unless we implement drones, that's the way i'd go for.
And why should merc be able to know that spy is in a ceiling if he's not moving fast and not using electronics ? Ghosting is one of the major and worst bugs of ct that can't be explained anyhow.
Quote from: neth on February 06, 2008, 12:56:34 AM
And why should merc be able to know that spy is in a ceiling if he's not moving fast and not using electronics ? Ghosting is one of the major and worst bugs of ct that can't be explained anyhow.
+1
Quote from: Westfall-US on February 06, 2008, 01:01:43 AM
Quote from: neth on February 06, 2008, 12:56:34 AM
And why should merc be able to know that spy is in a ceiling if he's not moving fast and not using electronics ? Ghosting is one of the major and worst bugs of ct that can't be explained anyhow.
+1
agree
Quote from: Test-Subject on February 06, 2008, 12:04:50 AM
it's not a nerf... you make it more powerfull (you can see far and clearly but it asks you to stay still a moment
and when you play againts good players in DA... it's all about strategy which gadget you take... where, when do you hack to get the most of it....
Yeah it is a nerf because it requires you to stop moving and it blurs. There's hardly strategy in DA. In CT, that's where strategy comes in because of the right amount of gadgets you are allowed to take. Where you hack is usually in the same spot. Right next to it. Otherwise, from far away, it's completely useless because it's not hard to find a spy who is hacking in DA.
Quote from: Papa Skull on February 06, 2008, 04:35:28 AM
Quote from: Test-Subject on February 06, 2008, 12:04:50 AM
it's not a nerf... you make it more powerfull (you can see far and clearly but it asks you to stay still a moment
and when you play againts good players in DA... it's all about strategy which gadget you take... where, when do you hack to get the most of it....
Yeah it is a nerf because it requires you to stop moving and it blurs. There's hardly strategy in DA. In CT, that's where strategy comes in because of the right amount of gadgets you are allowed to take. Where you hack is usually in the same spot. Right next to it. Otherwise, from far away, it's completely useless because it's not hard to find a spy who is hacking in DA.
If strategie is find the spy when he is hacking Ct is even less strategic... my point is not that Ct or DA requires more strategy then the other... it's that the game is arange in a way that it's hard for both teams.... they players need to think hard because each action has consequence.
That's not strategy. That's recon and search and destroy. Strategy is a developed plan to help you succeed in your mission. If you call picking a nice comfy spot to hack strategy, it's not man. That takes so little thinking.
Quote from: Gawain on February 06, 2008, 12:43:48 AM
charging out of smoke is one of the most important actions against aggro...
Yeah you need to be able to charge out of smoke.
Quote
i think the emf ghosting is too strong atm, but there must be some way to find out if there's a spy hiding in a ceiling. maybe the ghosting should become stronger the longer you stand still. unless we implement drones, that's the way i'd go for.
That's actually not a bad idea. I sorta like the standing still thing.
Quote from: Papa Skull on February 06, 2008, 04:51:39 AM
That's not strategy. That's recon and search and destroy. Strategy is a developed plan to help you succeed in your mission. If you call picking a nice comfy spot to hack strategy, it's not man. That takes so little thinking.
Read my last post carfully... strategy is moving the merc around so ur team8te is clear to hack.... it's coordinating ur strike on a hacking spy so you will cut off his exists.
I feel the tazer reduce the need of strategy since it's like a "undo" botton...
That never happened in DA. 3 mercs wouldn't lose the mission or lose an objective because 1 got a little distracted.
Quote from: Papa Skull on February 07, 2008, 03:42:38 PM
That never happened in DA. 3 mercs wouldn't lose the mission or lose an objective because 1 got a little distracted.
oh yes they would.
I don't have a lot of experience in DA, maybe 80-100 hrs max. In all my time playing this, my partners would just run off, grab flash bangs, try to hack, then run around like idiots. I hardly ever saw strategy. Mainly, it's the people you play with. And people who play DA are mostly noobs and morons ( no offense to you guys that play it, I said most people, not everyone )...
Quote from: Papa Skull on February 08, 2008, 12:30:34 AM
I don't have a lot of experience in DA, maybe 80-100 hrs max. In all my time playing this, my partners would just run off, grab flash bangs, try to hack, then run around like idiots. I hardly ever saw strategy. Mainly, it's the people you play with. And people who play DA are mostly noobs and morons ( no offense to you guys that play it, I said most people, not everyone )...
There was no strategy really. Run around trying to get necks and hack the objectives. The presence detector didnt allow for that much stealth.
So the more agressive gameplay from CT was better :P
Quote from: HBW_Hyrage on February 08, 2008, 06:35:05 PM
So the more agressive gameplay from CT was better :P
No , all he is saying is it didnt force you to play one style , allowing you freedom to choose how you wanna play.
Yeah, and basically DA took away all of your stealth abilities. Maybe not all of them, but most of them. And why do that in a stealth action game? Makes no sense.
Quote from: Papa Skull on February 09, 2008, 12:02:51 AM
Yeah, and basically DA took away all of your stealth abilities. Maybe not all of them, but most of them. And why do that in a stealth action game? Makes no sense.
Which is just 1 more reason why DA sucked so much.
Quote from: Papa Skull on February 09, 2008, 12:02:51 AM
Yeah, and basically DA took away all of your stealth abilities. Maybe not all of them, but most of them. And why do that in a stealth action game? Makes no sense.
The concept of stealth itself was differnet in DA. Stealth as far as DA was concerned was just finding some good hiding spot and then running away when the merc came near you. The merc knew you were there, he just didn't know exactly where you were, so you played a game of annoy the fuck out the merc while you run around and hack stuff.
Being a merc in DA just meant completely mastering the presence detector. That was it. You had to be able to go to a couple points in the room and triangulate the spy's position. If you could do that, you were basically unbeatable.
Yeah, agreed. That's an extremely shallow style of stealth.
I think a DA/CT hybrid would be awesome. Take out all the goods of both, and mix them up. I couldn't help remembering that a couple of times, i wished I could play DA on some of CT's maps, like the vault.
Quote from: Hybrid Circle on March 03, 2008, 07:26:49 PM
I think a DA/CT hybrid would be awesome. Take out all the goods of both, and mix them up. I couldn't help remembering that a couple of times, i wished I could play DA on some of CT's maps, like the vault.
do u mean bank?
bank is terrible.
I'd rather rip my dick off and shove it up my ass then Play DA's MP for longer then a few minutes.
Quote from: Zedblade on March 04, 2008, 01:25:20 AM
I'd rather rip my dick off and shove it up my ass
Sounds like fun. Take videos and pics.
Bank is a love it or hate it ordeal. I for one don't really love it or hate it though. ;D It's okay, can be annoying, but it's fine to play on.
Quote from: Spekkio on March 04, 2008, 02:58:58 AM
Bank is maybe 2nd best map
right after warehouse? XD
ZOMG YES!!!!!111one ;D
/sarcasim
Quote from: Westfall-US on March 03, 2008, 08:21:32 PM
Quote from: Hybrid Circle on March 03, 2008, 07:26:49 PM
I think a DA/CT hybrid would be awesome. Take out all the goods of both, and mix them up. I couldn't help remembering that a couple of times, i wished I could play DA on some of CT's maps, like the vault.
do u mean bank?
Yeah, the one with the gold storage vault.
and HOLY CRAP :o. So you guys dont like Bank! :-\ LOL. I just thought it wouldn't be bad on DA.
Quote from: Gawain on March 04, 2008, 02:11:27 PM
Quote from: Spekkio on March 04, 2008, 02:58:58 AM
Bank is maybe 2nd best map
right after warehouse? XD
No. orphanage 1 and bank maybe 2nd best map.
Don't just take my word for it; ask the god of CT aka Snakebit.
No need to ask anyone, we've all played it and most of us think its very gay.
spek and i were discussing ways of returning stealth to the game, and i agree that DA did have some saving graces, however the proximity detector pretty much ruined that. I am definatly a fan of giving spies a choice between the hack tool and the tazer gun. give each their own pro and cons, tazer gun can stop mercs, however you cant ranged hack and it makes noise. hack console is slower on taking out mercs but can hack panels and objectives at range, but doesnt make any noise while taking out security. anyway lots of things to be looked into once the CT replica is made.
Quote from: Tinweasele on March 04, 2008, 08:57:20 PM
spek and i were discussing ways of returning stealth to the game, and i agree that DA did have some saving graces, however the proximity detector pretty much ruined that. I am definatly a fan of giving spies a choice between the hack tool and the tazer gun. give each their own pro and cons, tazer gun can stop mercs, however you cant ranged hack and it makes noise. hack console is slower on taking out mercs but can hack panels and objectives at range, but doesnt make any noise while taking out security. anyway lots of things to be looked into once the CT replica is made.
HA! What do you know. Go back playing Wow Traitor!!!
:P
Quote from: Zedblade on March 04, 2008, 09:15:43 PM
Quote from: Tinweasele on March 04, 2008, 08:57:20 PM
spek and i were discussing ways of returning stealth to the game, and i agree that DA did have some saving graces, however the proximity detector pretty much ruined that. I am definatly a fan of giving spies a choice between the hack tool and the tazer gun. give each their own pro and cons, tazer gun can stop mercs, however you cant ranged hack and it makes noise. hack console is slower on taking out mercs but can hack panels and objectives at range, but doesnt make any noise while taking out security. anyway lots of things to be looked into once the CT replica is made.
HA! What do you know. Go back playing Wow Traitor!!!
:P
QFT&E
Quote from: Tinweasele on March 04, 2008, 08:57:20 PM
spek and i were discussing ways of returning stealth to the game, and i agree that DA did have some saving graces, however the proximity detector pretty much ruined that. I am definatly a fan of giving spies a choice between the hack tool and the tazer gun. give each their own pro and cons, tazer gun can stop mercs, however you cant ranged hack and it makes noise. hack console is slower on taking out mercs but can hack panels and objectives at range, but doesnt make any noise while taking out security. anyway lots of things to be looked into once the CT replica is made.
Yes. Absolutely. Even though you are noob apparently lol :D
I started a discussion about giving spies 3 options. Stealth Gun, Hack Glove, and the Sticky Shocker. I think some people liked the idea, some people didn't. There wasn't a majority opinion from what I remember.
I think it would be cool. Give spies more options. If the spy wants to go a little more aggro, he should grab the sticky shocker. For stealthy spies there is the stealth gun. For people who like the DA playstyle or the hack glove there would be hack glove option. They all have their ups and downs and would all add A LOT of variety to the game. But it might be too much work and something to think about after the main work is done. It would make it tougher to balance as well.
Here's this glove idea:
http://www.projectstealthgame.com/index.php/topic,638.0.html
just so you know Papa, Tin was around PT-start of CT for PC. he shows up every leap year or so.
I know seefoo, I was joking cuz someone said "what do you know!?!" sarcastically. ;)
I think we need to get that discussion going again.
if hack gun was in the game spys would win. one would hide with hack glove and the other would defend him with sticky shocker
Quote from: Papa Skull on March 04, 2008, 11:44:39 PM
Quote from: Tinweasele on March 04, 2008, 08:57:20 PM
spek and i were discussing ways of returning stealth to the game, and i agree that DA did have some saving graces, however the proximity detector pretty much ruined that. I am definatly a fan of giving spies a choice between the hack tool and the tazer gun. give each their own pro and cons, tazer gun can stop mercs, however you cant ranged hack and it makes noise. hack console is slower on taking out mercs but can hack panels and objectives at range, but doesnt make any noise while taking out security. anyway lots of things to be looked into once the CT replica is made.
Yes. Absolutely. Even though you are noob apparently lol :D
LOL, you think tinweasele is a noob.
Double Yoo Tee Eff. Did I not just say I was being sarcastic like 2 posts up, MR.Mic?
Fusionslayer that was a pretty farfetched conclusion you reached there. If someone was hiding it would take them forever to hack the terminal with the glove, and 1 ss can't hold off 2 mercs for a long time. It can hardly hold off one good merc for a few seconds.
Quote from: MR.Mic on March 05, 2008, 04:12:20 AM
LOL, you think tinweasele is a noob.
I'd call someone who hasn't played in 2 years and has immersed himself into the World of Warcraft a noob.
But what do I know, I hardly play anything anymore these days.
Quote from: LoChang on March 05, 2008, 04:41:36 AM
Quote from: MR.Mic on March 05, 2008, 04:12:20 AM
LOL, you think tinweasele is a noob.
I'd call someone who hasn't played in 2 years and has immersed himself into the World of Warcraft a noob.
But what do I know, I hardly play anything anymore these days.
Playing CT is like riding a bike.
You can get good again very quickly just by playing it.
Any new tricks that came up when you were gone are quickly picked up.
There's a big difference between WoW and CT: WoW is being constantly updated and changed.
Quote from: Papa Skull on March 05, 2008, 04:20:01 AM
Double Yoo Tee Eff. Did I not just say I was being sarcastic like 2 posts up, MR.Mic?
Fusionslayer that was a pretty farfetched conclusion you reached there. If someone was hiding it would take them forever to hack the terminal with the glove, and 1 ss can't hold off 2 mercs for a long time. It can hardly hold off one good merc for a few seconds.
Yes but the hacking spy could stop and just sit there while both mercs chase the ss spy, and the the hack glove guy can continue hacking, either with glove or by running up to it and speedily finishing it with both mercs gone. I say this because IF this was implimented the mercs would not get dif hacking msgs based on ranged or up close hacking. Therefore they would go after the spy that just shocked them. Also who said both mercs are going to come?
Quote from: FusionSlayer on March 05, 2008, 01:45:33 PM
Quote from: Papa Skull on March 05, 2008, 04:20:01 AM
Double Yoo Tee Eff. Did I not just say I was being sarcastic like 2 posts up, MR.Mic?
Fusionslayer that was a pretty farfetched conclusion you reached there. If someone was hiding it would take them forever to hack the terminal with the glove, and 1 ss can't hold off 2 mercs for a long time. It can hardly hold off one good merc for a few seconds.
Yes but the hacking spy could stop and just sit there while both mercs chase the ss spy, and the the hack glove guy can continue hacking, either with glove or by running up to it and speedily finishing it with both mercs gone. I say this because IF this was implimented the mercs would not get dif hacking msgs based on ranged or up close hacking. Therefore they would go after the spy that just shocked them. Also who said both mercs are going to come?
If you, as a merc, see one spy shocking you while the objective is being hacked, it's quite obvious that both spies are there...
Quote from: MR.Mic on March 05, 2008, 05:30:41 AM
Quote from: LoChang on March 05, 2008, 04:41:36 AM
Quote from: MR.Mic on March 05, 2008, 04:12:20 AM
LOL, you think tinweasele is a noob.
I'd call someone who hasn't played in 2 years and has immersed himself into the World of Warcraft a noob.
But what do I know, I hardly play anything anymore these days.
Playing CT is like riding a bike.
You can get good again very quickly just by playing it.
Any new tricks that came up when you were gone are quickly picked up.
For tin, "playing it" means running around in visit a map for 6 hours before going online in order to find that extra quirk to exploit.
In all seriousness, I would be very careful about giving spies a way to silently bypass security. I foresee a lot of boredom and imbalance there.
What tin and I were discussing is the fact that speed > slow in pretty much all circumstances. If you go slow, even with the lack of passive security in CT maps, a thorough merc will eventually find you on his patrol routes. If you go slow on maps with lots of security, the mercs are going to find you as you take the time to get around the defenses.
@Fusionslayer: Both mercs aren't going to chase one spy especially if the objective is being hacked.
wow, i make 1 post and this thread lights up... i havnt been gone THAT long.... have i?
anyhoo obviously everything would have to be balanced around a change that big if someone decided it was indeed a good idea. there would have to be a way to check on the status of security from range if indeed they did have silent deactivation, admittadly you COULD patrol around and check all the security but yeah.. no thanks. As for 1 person going aggressive and the other passive, well crap thats a good idea whether or not the gear promotes it. Not only is it sound tactically but it allows people to pick a playstyle instead of having one thrust upon them. I just really want the slow and stealthy to work as well as the speed demon rushes.
The speed rushes are encouraged in every single aspect of the game.
1. Mercs dont have any defences placed at the start of the game, getting inside their perimeter fast means they have to react to you , which consequently means even MORE delays in their active defences going up.
2. Humans are smart, if they dont hear from you they assume you are going slow so you must be in the front of the map, means a tighter patrol , means more likely chance of being spotted and shot.
3. at least with the classical deactivation mode, there is no reason to stay on 1 single node, so running ahead of the mercs from point to point has absolutly no downside once youve used up their supply of defencive abilities(possible exception if they cut you off)
4. passive security does not have any long lasting effects. you set off an alarm? so what, you cant hack anything for a few seconds, you are still faster than the mercs so its just a matter of kiting them around until you can get back to the room and try again. Now if passive defences actived buffs of some sort to the mercs, or activated more active tracking defences you would see a much higher emphasis on stealth.
Admittadly this is a stealth action game supposedly, i just wish stealth was more viable.
What he said.
Nothing exemplifies this more than Orphanage, which seems to be the #1 map these days for some god awful reason.
You were gone for over a year.
Objectives shut down for 14 sec, depending on the map.
I think you are overestimating the Spies' strength. Their speed can't help them all the time, because a bullet is even faster. So it only depends on level design. Also, most level designs have a start-up phase for Spies, to give Mercs time to place some mines.
Quote from: frvge on March 05, 2008, 08:07:16 PM
You were gone for over a year.
Objectives shut down for 14 sec, depending on the map.
VERY few maps have a 14 sec down time for objectives. Additionally, the only passive defense you really have to worry about is lasers, which can be chaffed. Motion sensors usually don't lock stuff and you can run under cams pretty easily with a little practice.
QuoteI think you are overestimating the Spies' strength. Their speed can't help them all the time, because a bullet is even faster. So it only depends on level design. Also, most level designs have a start-up phase for Spies, to give Mercs time to place some mines.
What levels might these be? Are you referring to how spies start outside for Orphanage? That's moot because the mercs start upstairs. The hack in Polar? Again moot because one of the mercs starts on a balcony completely opposite the stairwell. The hacks in missile? Again moot because the mercs have quite a bit of distance to get to sector 1.
When I am talking CT:
Clubhouse (getting down takes 8-10 secs), Orphanage, Missile Strike, Station, Bank (to an extent), Warehouse, Factory, Aquarius (fastest time to Greek is around 10 secs), etc. Basically all maps.
Quote from: frvge on March 05, 2008, 08:12:55 PM
When I am talking CT:
Clubhouse (getting down takes 8-10 secs), Orphanage, Missile Strike, Station, Bank (to an extent), Warehouse, Factory, Aquarius (fastest time to Greek is around 10 secs), etc. Basically all maps.
Are you able to set up 3 mines + 3 spy traps in 10 seconds? I sure as hell can't.
Also, look at any of the maps people considered to be balanced. In every single one of them you can do what tin is talking about.
I actually throw down 3 mines in greek...go to tech and chuck a nade up top and 8/10 times kill some1 up there.
Work on your speed then Spekkio :p I can cover Greek in 6 seconds (place 2 mines and close doors), then walk to Tech. When I feel like it, I plant another mine.
Quote from: Westfall-US on March 05, 2008, 09:49:49 PM
I actually throw down 3 mines in greek...go to tech and chuck a nade up top and 8/10 times kill some1 up there.
Then they're not rushing.
QuoteWork on your speed then Spekkio :p I can cover Greek in 6 seconds (place 2 mines and close doors), then walk to Tech. When I feel like it, I plant another mine.
And what if they don't go tech first?
guys its not a matter of whether or not a merc CAN go fast or not, we all know the pros can go really fsking fast. here is the test, is the game MUCH harder for the spies if they sit in spawn for the first 30-45 seconds of the game? ( besides grenading spawn -_-) if the answer is yes then the spies are being forced to move fast. Ill give you a hint, every single level will play out harder, because you have a super entrenched foe and no way to get past his defences in a stealthy manner.
An interesting post Test, but I cant say I agree with all of the points you have made.
The only worthwhile "improvements" brought by DA were graphical IMO as it was quite pretty.
There were only a few plus points to game play however:
* 3 man teams
* Focusable Flashlight
* Spy movement - I didnt like the speed so much, it was just the fact movement was more fluid. I.E you dont move really slow when climbing or moving on pipes which tbh sucked a lot in CT. I agree with skull though - they moved at a pace akin to a hypo-kid high on blue smarties, but If it was slowed down to a SCCT pace whilst retaining the speed when climbing/mantling and keeping escape moves - I'd have been much happier with it.
Negative points are obvious, we all know those too well and they far outweigh the good.
I'm sure the few good parts from DA have at least been considered for implementation after the initial clone of SCCT, at least the flashlight anyhow :D
I say no. I've put up most of my defenses and have taking a defensive stance within 12-15 seconds. As soon as I have an idea where the first strike will be, I'll focus on that part. Get a few games going, the human memory loses detail after some months.
Quote from: Tinweasele on March 05, 2008, 07:58:01 PM
4. passive security does not have any long lasting effects. you set off an alarm? so what, you cant hack anything for a few seconds, you are still faster than the mercs so its just a matter of kiting them around until you can get back to the room and try again. Now if passive defences actived buffs of some sort to the mercs, or activated more active tracking defences you would see a much higher emphasis on stealth.
That's an interesting idea.
What if we made it so that setting off an alert made the mercs get a speed boost for the duration of the alert, so they could better chase spies?
That'd really discourage the zero stealth rush hack.
Quote from: frvge on March 05, 2008, 11:13:22 PM
I say no. I've put up most of my defenses and have taking a defensive stance within 12-15 seconds. As soon as I have an idea where the first strike will be, I'll focus on that part. Get a few games going, the human memory loses detail after some months.
Dude, there is no fucking way you have 3 mines up in 15 seconds. It takes 3 seconds as it is to place a mine, and then you have to walk to the next spot. Unless you put all 3 mines up in the same goddamn spot, and that spot is your spawn point, it's going to take you about a minute to set up all your defenses. Add more time if you're also placing spy traps.
Tin's point is that if you sit in spawn as spy and wait for the mercs to set up rather than rushing in before they get everything down, the game is a lot harder. He's right about that, and no amount of time off from the game changes it.
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on March 05, 2008, 11:14:22 PM
Quote from: Tinweasele on March 05, 2008, 07:58:01 PM
4. passive security does not have any long lasting effects. you set off an alarm? so what, you cant hack anything for a few seconds, you are still faster than the mercs so its just a matter of kiting them around until you can get back to the room and try again. Now if passive defences actived buffs of some sort to the mercs, or activated more active tracking defences you would see a much higher emphasis on stealth.
That's an interesting idea.
What if we made it so that setting off an alert made the mercs get a speed boost for the duration of the alert, so they could better chase spies?
That'd really discourage the zero stealth rush hack.
It is an interesting idea, except for a couple of things:
1. The way most of the maps are now, there just isn't that much passive security around to begin with.
2. If we add more passive security, stopping to shoot it all out would be very problematic for the spies.
Another problem I think that has to do with the running around is spy insta-healing each other and self-regen. Rarely do you need to trek back to a healthpack. It gives you a "get out of jail free" from getting shot up by a merc.
Healing should indeed take longer.
I don't think it should exist, period. Removing traps/poison effect (but not healing lost health), maybe. If you're so big on partners healing each other, then get rid of healthpacks completely. But that's a discussion for another thread.
Quote from: Spekkio on March 05, 2008, 10:52:12 PM
Quote from: Westfall-US on March 05, 2008, 09:49:49 PM
I actually throw down 3 mines in greek...go to tech and chuck a nade up top and 8/10 times kill some1 up there.
Then they're not rushing.
The problem is...they were rushing. I place 3 mines in under 15 secs in Greek if I spawn there and move right into tech. They're all proxy mines, so its just point click.
The healing shot that was in DA should be implemented. It gave back your health over time. It was quick of course, but it could also be a "new" gadget. I'm sure the heal time could be adjusted too. They shouldn't give you3 of them though. If I got hurt I would shot all 3 in me and refill at the spawn and go on my way. Thats not really that strategic. If there was only 1 that could refill the whole health....maybe this is something that could be worked with.
For me it takes about 10 seconds to plant some good mines in greek, then run over to tech.
I just tried to play DA MP online. First of all it took forever just to get into a game (YAY LETS LIKE HAVE NO LOBBY GUYSZ LOL GOOD IDEAZ) Then only 3 people joined and we had to play against BOTs... which is basically just running around untill you can grab them... BUT WAITS IT DOESN"T MATTER IF THEY WERE HUMANS CAUSE OF PRESENCE DETECTOR SO ITS ALWAYS RUNNING AROOUND LIKE IDI*OTS!!1
Fucking horrible fucking game.
BUT NOO I have to play so I can unlock all maps and use them as referance. Stupid fucking IDEA!!Lkw3jg
Can't you take someone's account to unlock the stuff?
Quote from: Liqu1D_133 on March 08, 2008, 04:09:28 PM
Can't you take someone's account to unlock the stuff?
hahahahaha
lmao. It really did blow. Especially when people DID join. Then it was just a laggarounduntilyougetluckyandmaybegrabamercortwothenhackaterminalandrunlikeachickenwithhisfuckingheadcutoff-athon.
Try breaking the huge word into smaller words.
It was so friggin laggy, that's what really drove me away from the game at first glance. At second glance it was just the dumbed down version of SvM and noob friendly garbage that turned me away. But initially it was the first glance that turned me away.