Prone / Crawling

[Gawain]

these vents do their job on aqua. yea, I know its imbalanced map but It would be even worse if there were full sized vents.

wtf oO

papaskull, "past games of svm" is the best reference we have. stop flaming people for basing their opinion on it.
there is a huge amount of stuff that we know how to fix, another huge amount of new ideas that have the potential to proove good and some ideas like ultra-low vents (or prone movement for that matter) that we already have very bad experience with (or can know that they suck certainly). so if you make or support such a suggestion, you gotta find some really good reasons...

[neth]

these vents do their job on aqua. yea, I know its imbalanced map but It would be even worse if there were full sized vents.

wtf oO

wtf wtf ?

[Spekkio]

*cough*station*cough*

hahah, perfect example....but

these vents do their job on aqua. yea, I know its imbalanced map but It would be even worse if there were full sized vents.

Huh? The mercs have to actively shoot out these vents themselves in order to open them. I don't see how their size has anything to do with balance. As a matter of fact, it allows the mercs to place impassible poisons at these vents even if they do get opened. That's hardly "balanced."

[neth]

Fact that theyre smaller, gives merc a chance to spot a spy while hes passing through. Yes, you can place poison mines but there is medkit in tech.

[Spekkio]

Yea, cuz Aqua is so merc sided that they need this ability  ::). And it's not like the mercs have to shoot the vents out themselves or anything, thus becoming aware of the gap in coverage.

As for the health in tech: with the exception of the greek vent, you won't be able to reach a healthpack in time. Firstly, because the mercs will have to have a labotomy in order to take long enough for you to get out of the vent, and secondly because you just don't have the time thanks to the crawl.

[QLemont]

Is that all gawain can think about is vents and who wouldn't want to crawl under laser mines that would be amazing but its not only for those two reasons its so you can hide in more places in any room yes most of the small vents in DA we're pointless but thats what the escape move was there for to get you out of most sticky situations.

In CT and DA if you crouch most skilled players will always be able to see your head this gets rid of that
when all your able to do is be upright it causes the spy to be more aggresive and run around like a aggro nut atleast this way mercs would have to search more corners of every room and it would be very good for outdoor maps depending on map etc.

And look hard in the grass and water if there is any
and there should be more ceiling vents like in movies where you see a S.W.A.T. officers crawling in to hit
the Terrorist leader insted of vents you can practically run and jump in i know this part is a little off topic but imagine crawling threw as bullets are coming past you.   :o

But again its not my mod they can do as they wish its just an idea and i think most of us like realism
and that its somthing the SVM has been missing.


Its nice to be one of the family.  :-*

[Farley4Fan]

k.  Why are we still discussing Aqua?  Aqua will not be in the game afaik, same with station.  They both don't use the short vent as well as they could, especially not station.  And I see no flame Gawain.

My argument is that the map makers can now use them to balance maps/entry points into the level.  If the spy wants to slowly infiltrate an area without being seen, he should make the decision to take the low vent which is slower, or the higher vent which is taller.  The lower vent puts you into an area which is unaccessible for mercs, while the larger vent puts you in an area that mercs can get to and trap it.  The downside to taking the lower vent is that it would take more time, but you get to a more secure place.  The downside to taking the taller vent is that it puts you in a more obvious place, but it takes a lot less time. 

This ALL rests on the way the map makers design the map.  It gives more choices to the spy.

[Gawain]

papa, i don't wanna play a boring crouching simulation XD
a low vent to a secure place is total bullshit as there is no place for the merc to interact with the spy so the gameplay becomes boring. stealth is about outmaneuvring and distracting the merc, not about crouching in some stupid vent (which is already too slow for good stealth players in most situations so only noobs camp inside them).

[neth]

As for the health in tech: with the exception of the greek vent, you won't be able to reach a healthpack in time. Firstly, because the mercs will have to have a labotomy in order to take long enough for you to get out of the vent, and secondly because you just don't have the time thanks to the crawl.

I was talking about greek vent mostly cause tbh I dont remember more than one situation when I used any other small vent on that map. Greek vent is ok there, cause when merc gets into crytical situation and hes not in place when spy starts hacking greek, he often shoots vent and fires nade so he gets more time. Now imagine that after he shoots vent, spy can go into tech with normal speed. That would give him too big advantage. (Obviously theres this bug when spy can q-jump into vent, so he has to deal with only about 50% of the vent on slow mode - which makes totally no sense for me).

So I say, small vents are ok but when placed correctly.

[Spekkio]

k.  Why are we still discussing Aqua?  Aqua will not be in the game afaik, same with station.  They both don't use the short vent as well as they could, especially not station.  And I see no flame Gawain.

Papa, NO map uses these vents well in a balancing manner. They are completely pointless, and at times, unbalance the map completely.

[Westfall]

k.  Why are we still discussing Aqua?  Aqua will not be in the game afaik, same with station.  They both don't use the short vent as well as they could, especially not station.  And I see no flame Gawain.

Papa, NO map uses these vents well in a balancing manner. They are completely pointless, and at times, unbalance the map completely.

small vents suck. Those needed to not exist.

[frvge]

Personally, I think they can be useful for balancing and variations in the pace. But the current maps aren't really well designed for it.

[MR.Mic]

I had imagined using prone like back-to-wall, except for floors to hide your profile better on high ledges and stuff.

[Farley4Fan]

k.  Why are we still discussing Aqua?  Aqua will not be in the game afaik, same with station.  They both don't use the short vent as well as they could, especially not station.  And I see no flame Gawain.

Papa, NO map uses these vents well in a balancing manner. They are completely pointless, and at times, unbalance the map completely.

Yes but you are still talking about small vents in regards to the current maps.  Afaik, the CURRENT maps won't be in the game.  ;)  If the map makers are intelligent, the ones I know are, then they can be used in a fashion that could help balance areas.  They would allow the spy to make a choice, take the safe slow route, or the fast dangerous route.  (the one Gawain would choose because he always has no time obviously  ;D jk gawain)

OR, you could make it so the spy crawls quickly like DA, but make those vents more exposed.  Imagine crawling through a confined space underneath a grate in a hallway.  Some of you may remember the cargo ship mission in CT SP, you wait for a couple guards to pass over you when you are crawling through a tight space underneath the grate on the floor.  You are completely visible, but you move faster.  Or imagine confining the vents underneath steel squat to a size where you could only crawl through them.  Mercs can see inside the vents through the grates, but it makes it a quick shortcut across the map without having to expose yourself.  The only downside is that it may take a bit longer to get through than your average vent, but not by much.

As for prone, it would become pretty useless.  If a merc can see you crouched he can still see you prone most of the time, except for a few instances like Mr.Mic mentioned.  I wonder if going prone would make you short enough to go underneath lasers.  If so, I don't think it would be good for gameplay.

[Spekkio]

I really don't see any need to use these super-small vents for balance. They're inherintly imbalanced because being in them means that you 1) move extremely slowly and 2) can't use any of your equipment to defend yourself if a merc finds you. These things just turn into deathtraps when there's really no reason to have them. If you need to restrict the amount of time it takes a spy to get somewhere, just make the vent longer and snake it.

As for new maps being in PS: this is true, but if the core gameplay elements from PT/CT are present in PS, then the core elements of what makes up a good map are going to be very similar. Could you come up with a situation where a small vent/prone might add to gameplay? Probably, but not enough where it would be worth the effort to put it into the game.