Electronic Glove strikes back

[neth]

Everything you want is basically in the SS, except this is silent. You can break lights, windows, and hack mercs with the SS. Yet, people rarely do these things. Why? Because there is no real use for breaking windows or lights as it is right now.

No, its not basically in the ss, there are many differences between glove and ss, just read the first post, it will help.

Hacking an objective remotely is the shittiest idea ever. People hated DA because of that, and now you want to put it back in? Get real.

Not really. People didn't like DA because of many elements, like presence detector, taking away gadget fun, no stealth, too fast pace etc.

A real man hacks up close. Are you a real man?

hahah , huh ? That quote can be put to the same category as "we r all just a players".

Traps just don't fit the gameplay. The spies mission is to get in, get data, and then get the fiddlesticks out. Setting these trap things will not help gameplay, but only make it more slow  for stealth players, and make it easier for aggro players.

What gameplay ? You mean the one we are trying to create ?

Its not true that glove and traps would slow spies. There would be more possibilities of playing. You would be able to play:
-stealthy with glove
-stealthy with ss (or take ss if you intend to change style during the game)
-aggro with ss

You could combine these game styles thanks to teamwork. If  spy decides to play with glove, he would be forced to plan his moves on the map, which makes the stealth technics even more sophisticated.
Again, if you dont like the glove, dont use it and play with ss.

All the rest of your points are retarded, and it needs no counter.

kid.

Seriously, i dont have a problem in this gadget, if you dont like it dont take it. The SS is way more powerful anyway.. but this could be cool for stealth players.

unfortunately some people cant understand it.

[Gawain]

no, your are the kid here. just because his choice of words sounds immature doesn't make his point less valid.

[InvisibleMan999]

The glove is actually ideal for speed-hack, where you run around the map hacking stuff and using your own mobility to keep ahead of the mercs. This is because the glove does not have to target anything. So you can easily disable static defenses in rapid succession as you move without aiming.

[BurningDeath]

The glove is actually ideal for speed-hack, where you run around the map hacking stuff and using your own mobility to keep ahead of the mercs. This is because the glove does not have to target anything. So you can easily disable static defenses in rapid succession as you move without aiming.

Make a 3 second delay for disabling things and you've made it a stealth weapon.

[neth]

The glove is actually ideal for speed-hack, where you run around the map hacking stuff and using your own mobility to keep ahead of the mercs. This is because the glove does not have to target anything. So you can easily disable static defenses in rapid succession as you move without aiming.

Its a pity you didn't read the first post:

The range is very limited. Hacking speed depends on how close you are to the hacking device. When you hack, you cant stop immediatelly. It takes the same ammount of time to enter/exit hacking mode as it gets for spy to start/stop hacking when its done without glove.

[Spekkio]

Okay, since Tin and I don't hate each other, we talked about this over xfire:

What we agree on:
The glove would be an alternative to the SS. It would be readied like the SS, and have an aiming mechanism. The advantage of the glove would be that it is completely silent fire -- that means you can shoot out lasers, cameras, motion sensors, light fixtures, whatever to your heart's content and not be heard. This might be of questionable use on some CT maps like Club and Missile with little passive security, but in PS's new engine with presumably more dynamic lights and better maps with security somewhere between PT and CT, this would be a godsend. The merc will still get a security failure message, though, so you can't be too careless. The glove would be on the same energy system as the SS and camo (and HBS if I had my way, and Tin agrees ^_^). Each use would fire some sort of bolt (or whatever effect you want to add) and use up a percentage of the energy meter. Oh, and since run-and-gun spies is teh ghey, gun energy only refills when the spy is stationary -- applies to anything that uses energy, not just the glove. The range would be unlimited, just like the SS.

Grenades would be thrown instead of shot. Cams, bullets, and snares (sorry, I'm not using your gay names frvge) would be fired from the glove via some sort of module on the top. All selectable gadgets would behave the same as if shot from the sticky shocker. Unless, of course, you guys want to come up with a whole completely new set of equipment for use with the glove, but that starts to get very complicated.

My main issue with it was that the SS was dual purpose while the glove was not, at least not as suggested here. So what we came up with is that the glove acts as sort of a scrambler for the merc -- it takes them out of special vision like the shocker, but unlike the shocker it doesn't freeze the merc in place for 4 seconds. Instead, it disables the sound reticle for a short period of time and makes vision static-like (I would say 5 seconds to start, adjust as needed). The merc's 12 sec invulnerable cooldown time is shared between the shocker and glove, so aggro spies can't shock ---> glove ---> run around to grab. The idea here is that the glove can still harass the merc, but its main concept is aiding stealthiness. By silently taking away the reticle and visions, that merc perching in a chokepoint can suddenly lose some of his senses, which can allow you to sneak by.

Iffy stuff
Of course, the glove doesn't have to be limited to just that stuff, so here are some random brainstorming ideas that came up during discussion.

The issue of remote hacking came up. I personally think that remote hacking should be 100% avoided in the "classic" type mode and put into a separate mode if it's desired enough. However, Tin came up with a couple ideas to use remote hacking.

Before we get into these, remember that remote hacking only affects neutralization objectives. You won't be able to remote hack an extraction or sabotage objective, so there's no point in discussing the balance implications there.

Solution 1. The remote hacking can only be done on non-objective hacks.
Solution 2. Remote hacking can only be done up to a certain % of the objective (25%-50%)
Solution 3. Remote hacking requires a 2 second setup/unsetup time, so if/when you're caught you're pretty much dead.

I'm a fan of solution 1, 3, 2, in that order. Tin seemed like he was in favor of 1 and 3 moreso than 2 because 2 would lead to a lot of running around and tap hacking in the beginning of the round.

Tin also came up with the idea of a secondary function for the glove. It would work by basically holding a lock on the merc, which would prolong the scrambling effect until your energy meter ran out. I'm not sure about this myself, mainly because I question the validity of holding a lock on a merc for 10 seconds, but I'm putting it out there anyway.

Tin also threw out the idea of having the SS be able to shoot out stuff like boards, while the glove cannot. I disagree because I don't think the map access should change based upon your equipment, but his reasoning is that he doesn't like the idea that the mercs always know the possible entry points of the spies. I threw out the idea of allowing spies to swap equipment, but then the game would just become a "counter whatever the mercs are taking" game, so there went that.

Finally, Tin came up with an idea to queue up multiple hacks before hitting them all simultaneously, but the usefulness of such an ability is questionable.

I gotta say, I think it's workable.

EDIT: Also, this item doesn't have to be a glove. It can be a newly modeled gun. It could be a dildo. Whatever. Kebab and b1nary can handle modelling it as they see fit.

Discuss.

[Succubus Dryad Of The Undying Comet]

Finally, Tin came up with an idea to queue up multiple hacks before hitting them all simultaneously, but the usefulness of such an ability is questionable.

I don't get it.

[Gawain]

i just got another idea for remote hacking:
let it start with 0% of the normal hacking speed, and increase the speed over the hacking time so that it's 100% after 4s and 200% after 8s. this way, speedhacking becomes ineffective and if you played stealth well you get extra credit for the merc needing longer to arrive or longer to look for your hiding spot. the maxium hacking speed can be limited by the range.

there are too main problems i forsee:
a)spy not being able to flee without ss
b)lame remote hacking spots like vents, ceiling, small gap, objective only effectively coverable by sniping etc

if i got it right, spekkio's post suggests a scrambler function that quickly (=without aiming?) allows the spy to disable the mercs visions and sound reticule which would help in regard a) (scramble, flash, 2s later second flash or smoke or camo and you're gone). the shared 12s cooldown also makes perfect sense. what stays is b), which would make it a really hard challenge (with lots of new limitations) for map makers. i also like the idea that one can hack every hacking panel with the glove.

[Spekkio]

Like, imagine that there are 3 light fixtures in a room. Instead of just shooting them out in order, you can queue them all up and hit all 3 out at the exact same time.

EDIT:

if i got it right, spekkio's post suggests a scrambler function that quickly (=without aiming?)

No, the glove would need to be aimed just like the SS and anything else needs to be aimed. The spy should also see some sort of graphical element that lets them know where it was fired.

ADDED: also, something I missed in my OP: tin and I were discussing the "run-and-gun" mechanic when it dawned on me: energy should only refill when the spy is stationary.

[Gawain]

Like, imagine that there are 3 light fixtures in a room. Instead of just shooting them out in order, you can queue them all up and hit all 3 out at the exact same time.

EDIT: No, the glove would need to be aimed just like the SS needs to be aimed. The spy should also see some sort of graphical element that lets them know where it was fired.

what if the glove could create an emp blow that disables lights, merc hud etc in a certain radius for a certain time?

[Spekkio]

Like, imagine that there are 3 light fixtures in a room. Instead of just shooting them out in order, you can queue them all up and hit all 3 out at the exact same time.

EDIT: No, the glove would need to be aimed just like the SS needs to be aimed. The spy should also see some sort of graphical element that lets them know where it was fired.

what if the glove could create an emp blow that disables lights, merc hud etc in a certain radius for a certain time?

Err, chaff anyone?

[Spekkio]

Btw, this doesn't have to be specifically a glove. It could be a second type of gun or whatever (helps with making it work with other gadgets).

[Tinweasele]

my aoe idea just to clarify to help spies get away, would be like an aoe chaff that burns energy like camo centered on the spy.  only usable when at full energy and mitigated by LOS by thick objects only, walls come to mind.(that affects mercs only, no knocking out security)

[Ion.67]

Everything you want is basically in the SS, except this is silent. You can break lights, windows, and hack mercs with the SS. Yet, people rarely do these things. Why? Because there is no real use for breaking windows or lights as it is right now.

No, its not basically in the ss, there are many differences between glove and ss, just read the first post, it will help.

[/quote]
I did read the first post, and there were a few differences, but they made no sense, or else I didn't think they were needed in the game.

Hacking an objective remotely is the shittiest idea ever. People hated DA because of that, and now you want to put it back in? Get real.

Not really. People didn't like DA because of many elements, like presence detector, taking away gadget fun, no stealth, too fast pace etc.

Remote hacking is also included in that. Just because you are only bringing one of the lesser evils, does not make it better.

A real man hacks up close. Are you a real man?

hahah , huh ? That quote can be put to the same category as "we r all just a players".

That was sarcasm

Traps just don't fit the gameplay. The spies mission is to get in, get data, and then get the fiddlesticks out. Setting these trap things will not help gameplay, but only make it more slow  for stealth players, and make it easier for aggro players.

What gameplay ? You mean the one we are trying to create ?

Its not true that glove and traps would slow spies. There would be more possibilities of playing. You would be able to play:
-stealthy with glove
-stealthy with ss (or take ss if you intend to change style during the game)
-aggro with ss

You could combine these game styles thanks to teamwork. If  spy decides to play with glove, he would be forced to plan his moves on the map, which makes the stealth technics even more sophisticated.
Again, if you dont like the glove, dont use it and play with ss.

There, you just brought up another problem. There is going to be a set style from the beginning of the game. I usually change my style during the game, and there is a problem.

All the rest of your points are retarded, and it needs no counter.

kid.

Sorry, I tried not to drop any swear words there. I was gonna drop an F bomb.

Seriously, i dont have a problem in this gadget, if you dont like it dont take it. The SS is way more powerful anyway.. but this could be cool for stealth players.

unfortunately some people cant understand it.

I want rocket launchers. Don't like it, don't take it? That is why your reasoning doesn't work.

I am all for more spy weapons, but not this. It doesn't make sense to me.

[0ctin]

No because you've taken it to extremes there buddy  :D. Some people like Spy traps, I dont so i dont take them. Simple as. And the SS and Glove are fairly balanced, its not like a rocket VS a water gun here.