Coping berserk animation could be a copyrights violation thats why It may be good to put something instead of it.
I was thinking about a field that the merc would launch. The effect could be similar to the one when he stands up after being knocked down - bolts everywhere on his body. When he enables it, he would not be able to move for a sec. The range of this could be similar to berserk's range. It would also solve the problem when the spy tries to jump on merc's head. In CT it looks a bit crappy when merc makes 360 and spy gets hit altough he jumps on head... There could be some nice graph. effects added - like blurs or merc's screen colour changes.
After this merc could be a little exhausted so he would have to kneel, falter or bend for 0,5-1 sec (in CT he just couldnt move)
Interesting idea. The field would act exactly like the berserk minus the animation. Maybe try and think of an animation instead of a shield of electricity around the mercs body that would electrocute him?
P.S. Berserk isn't a copywritten action by anyone. You can't put copyright on a particular action.
Even if its not copywritten its not very nice cause as I said it looks bad when spy tries to jump on.
I chose electric field cause i couldnt "invent" any move that would also affect the spy both when he falls down and tries to neck.
Maybe we can try and think of an alternate move?
Energy shield like Dragonball Z ;D
indeed, because everyone who spins in a circle with their arms out has to pay ubisoft..
Quote from: Bionic-Blob on December 03, 2007, 07:46:32 PM
indeed, because everyone who spins in a circle with their arms out has to pay ubisoft..
OK, forget about copyright crap and give your idea. Youre for keeping this gay spin which looks idiotic or for putting something new. Give some constructive criticism, youre surely good at it.
i think berserk looks cool and is good for the gameplay.
it looks stupid against jumps so we could add a third animation for this purpose but why fix what ain't broken?
nice one blob lol
I was thinking something where the merc takes his gun and swings the butt of it over his head with a lot of force. Again, here is a halo example: When a hunter tries to hit you with his arm, he swings his arm over his head and hits the ground behind him. Hopefully someone here knows what kind of animation I am talking about and can back me up. Any halo players know? Can you explain it better than I can? :D
Herei s a video I found of a hunter trying to beat down a brute ( Hunters are the blue ones lol )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nir4osJinnA&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nir4osJinnA&feature=related)
AT ABOUT 20 SECONDS you can see him do the move I am talking about a couple times!
Too bad the quality is shitty but you can still see the basic idea.
He swings his arm overhead and turns around at the same time. Cool.
Exactly! You put it in the right words lol. I think that this would really work for PS. It would change gameplay a tiny bit because the merc turns around when he does it, but this should knock down everyone around him anyways.
Hmmm.. interesting idea, it would look pretty cool too. I think it would fix the spy jumping on the head problem too
Gogo Gadget Hardhat.
I think a Razor Kick like Guile from Street Fighter would ROck!
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2clicks.files.wordpress.com%2F2007%2F05%2Fguile-kick1116627725-00.png%3Fw%3D390%26amp%3Bh%3D339&hash=6e84ee1145a408c9f3a602334a86ac7e58d5c7ea)
or a shoryuken like Ryu
But considering the weight of a Merc w all his equipment, he's have to have some pretty strong legs to get up
That's a Flash Kick. To counter spies jumping on you we need to hold down for a few seconds them up kick! I want Hadoukens!
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsydlexia.com%2Fimagesandstuff%2Fsf1%2Fryu%2520mvc.png&hash=6c98a99751bf16584e32cfcc310d9abc4da022ad)
How about discussing something that could actually work lol even though that was a little funny
Here's an artist rendition of the new move.
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg509.imageshack.us%2Fimg509%2F3221%2Fpowerupzl3.jpg&hash=c507ec87e69d34383af62fcd2871b935651b9e76)
My suggestion would be re-examine the affect of the attack on a jumping spy. It works fine and makes perfect sense, if you tried to jump on someone performing that move your legs would likely slide of the head and get fouled on the spinning shoulders sending you tumbling to the ground probably right on your head. We just need to make the spy's animation when hit by the berserk a little more realistic. With physics and rag-doll effects this should be quite possible. Just my 2 cents.
Yes, rag doll with my "hunter arm swing over the head move while turning around simultaneously" would be frickin sweet!
Quote from: B1nArY_001 on December 04, 2007, 04:32:00 AM
My suggestion would be re-examine the affect of the attack on a jumping spy. It works fine and makes perfect sense, if you tried to jump on someone performing that move your legs would likely slide of the head and get fouled on the spinning shoulders sending you tumbling to the ground probably right on your head. We just need to make the spy's animation when hit by the berserk a little more realistic. With physics and rag-doll effects this should be quite possible. Just my 2 cents.
yeah, but berserk animation is silly. You try to jump on merc's head and you do so and then you get smashed by hand that doesnt even touch you, wtf ?
Nice drawing Daybreak. What about SSJ3?
The merc could become a tank when bazerking :D
The berserk animation is fine Neth, honestly.
Meh, I'd rather not have a bad ass merc doing ballerina shit which would in no way help him from getting jumped on.
It's an anti-jump and 360 knockdown defence move. It seems fine for what its meant to be imo.
How does twirling your arms in a 360 prevent people jumping on you? It doesn't, berserk looks stupid.
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 04, 2007, 06:10:19 PM
How does twirling your arms in a 360 prevent people jumping on you? It doesn't, berserk looks stupid.
and thats why my idea is to remove berserk and add shocky field with same effect and rules of working.
and that's why I suggested what the hunter from halo move.
Your hunter animation is much more complicated to add than my simple field :)
Yeah but it would look better and what kind of merc what electrify himself? Your idea may work but I think mine would be a little better..
Perhaps yours would look better but mine is also cool, its easier to add and has a reasonable explanation. Thats why i think mine is slightly better than yours.
How is someone electrifying themselves more reasonable than someone doing my move? Either way, a new animation would have to be made anyways so it's not easier to add really. How is mine not reasonable exactly? ???
Work on your animation > work on mine
Shocky effect will be in game anyway so theres not much to do.
I didnt say your concept is not reasonable.
Quote from: neth on December 04, 2007, 12:06:42 PM
Quote from: B1nArY_001 on December 04, 2007, 04:32:00 AM
My suggestion would be re-examine the affect of the attack on a jumping spy. It works fine and makes perfect sense, if you tried to jump on someone performing that move your legs would likely slide of the head and get fouled on the spinning shoulders sending you tumbling to the ground probably right on your head. We just need to make the spy's animation when hit by the berserk a little more realistic. With physics and rag-doll effects this should be quite possible. Just my 2 cents.
yeah, but berserk animation is silly. You try to jump on merc's head and you do so and then you get smashed by hand that doesnt even touch you, wtf ?
Read my post a little more carefully,
"My suggestion would be re-examine the affect of the attack on a jumping spy. It works fine and makes perfect sense, if you tried to jump on someone performing that move your legs would likely slide of the head and get fouled on the spinning shoulders sending you tumbling to the ground probably right on your head."
You don't get hit by a hand period, the merc swings his gun in a 360 degree arc bashing anything around him. No different than a move a sword fighter would use to force multiple attackers back or to even strike multiple attackers. Just because it's simplistic doesn't mean unrealistic. Now, what IS unreallistic is the way a spy collapses after jumping a berserking merc. All that needs to happen is the spy needs a preset animation where he lands on his head/falls to the ground or whatever and blend that with some physics so that the spy's legs get caught up in the spinning shoulders flinging him to the ground. I'm sure physics could even be used to make the spy's fall somewhat affected by the inertia from the spinning merc increasing the realism of the move/failed jump.
Edit: If you don't think spinning prevents being jumped on, go get one of your friends give him a helmet and jump on him while he spins 360 degrees in .75-1.00 seconds. Then send me a picture of your friend laughing at you as you crack your skull or sprain a wrist trying to catch yourself. it works because the jumper's motion/kinetic energy is transfered in the direction of the spin as he lands on the spinning person/object dispersing the impact forces.
Another thing to note is that the animations in CT don't match with the way a jump occurs, the feet land about shoulder width apart and the hands come down in a double-fisted hammer blow stopping 6-8 inches up from the feet. This suggests that the intention was the feet land planted on the shoulders driving the merc towards the ground while the hands drop down bashing the merc on the top of the head. If this is what they intended then the berserk would make perfect sense, you can't plant your feet on spinning shoulders.
Quote from: B1nArY_001 on December 04, 2007, 09:18:26 PM
if you tried to jump on someone performing that move your legs would likely slide of the head and get fouled on the spinning shoulders sending you tumbling to the ground probably right on your head.
I read it before.
No mate, im not gonna slide off and this dude is gonna die with cracked head no matter if he spins or dances.
Im not gonna do it with friend but imagine what would happen if I threw a big damn stone from 1st floor exactly on your head and you would spin at that time.
He hits everything around him with his arms, I can see that yes, but it does not hit anything above him WHATSOEVER.
And neth by saying that yours was reasonable I thought you were saying that mine wasn't. I still don't see why a merc what shock himself with electricity.
berserk is unrealistic but fits into the gameplay, so what is all the fuss about?
Quote from: neth on December 04, 2007, 09:40:34 PM
Quote from: B1nArY_001 on December 04, 2007, 09:18:26 PM
if you tried to jump on someone performing that move your legs would likely slide of the head and get fouled on the spinning shoulders sending you tumbling to the ground probably right on your head.
I read it before.
No mate, im not gonna slide off and this dude is gonna die with cracked head no matter if he spins or dances.
Im not gonna do it with friend but imagine what would happen if I threw a big damn stone from 1st floor exactly on your head and you would spin at that time.
There's a big difference between a stone and a human. Humans have 2 legs that the balance has to be distributed across and the stone does not have to consider how it lands. If you jump from 10 feet onto someone's head you are going wind up with your feet sliding off the head, the head is domed and the feet will slide off opposite sides.This is not even considering if that person was spinning which makes the head a moving target that because of the spinning motion and domed shape will cause most blows to glance off You would likely break or sprain an ankle. It's simple physics.
If you think you can perform that jump with no ill affects then good for you. I'm a pretty physical person having studied several combat systems and being a former gymnast, fencer and water polo player but I sure as hell wouldn't try to land on a spinning person from even 4 feet above them. I would get hurt. So would they but I imagine if they had the merc's helmet and armor it would just be me getting hurt. Now if they were not spinning I imagine it would be pretty simple to land with my feet firmly planted on their shoulders driving them to the ground. Anyhow, I'm not trying to get into a debate over it. This is just my opinion take it or leave it. ;)
this may sound retarded but... maybe equip the merc with some type of spiked armguard? so instead of berserk you just kind of hold your arm up to protect yourself? the spike would kill the spy and there could be an animation of the merc kind of catching the spy with the armguard and then kind of throwing him to the side?
this armguard would also be an interesting idea for charging... arm guard out in front of the merc as he charges?
i dont know if it sounds over powered to you but im just trying to throw around an idea i thought was cool
if you dont like the idea of spikes.. (not high tech enough) it could be an electricly charged arm guard or whatever.
I don't know if we want the spy to die as Spies don't die when you smack them anyway. Remember sometimes a Merc hits a spy and can't find him amidst smoke, flash bangs, and a team mate trying to protect the knocked out mate. So a merc killing a spy instantly wouldn't be feasible.
I agree that the effect shouldn't be any more powerful, but an arm guard could work... I can see spikes shooting out from their hidden spots in his suit as he charges, that would be awesome ;D
remove the spikes and just have him 'catch the spy' and kind of repel him off
merc side step. seee the spai coming from top. press button, take a step to the side and commence gun butt bashing to the spai face.
Either a quick sidestep+swing gun to the direction he came from (works ok for jumping spy, dunno about grabbing spy) or the arm guard: 1 arm aimed up to hurt the jumping spy and 1 arm used to swing around like the current berserk.
The move from CT coop could work? When one of the players tried to jump on another, the spy at the bottom would raise his hand and kind of push the other spy away. Add spikes, boil in twenty minutes and you've got a knocked out spy :P
OOOO, I've got an idea. So, if any of you have played super smash bros melee you will know what I am talking about. Hopefully you remember Luigi and a certain move he does. He spins his arms around in circles and after a full rotation he thrusts his arms up in the air and hits anything above him. This hits anything around him or above him, a perfect kind of move for a berserk replacement. Instead he would swing his gun around in a circle like he does now, and after that, he thrusts the butt of his gun into the air. Wouldn't that look better? It would make sense also.
Note that Luigi rotates his arms around for like 4/5 of the animation.
how bout the merc put on his 'no hit' hat. that way he cant get ko'd from top.
Quote from: Kok4f4n on December 05, 2007, 02:16:48 AM
Note that Luigi rotates his arms around for like 4/5 of the animation.
I didn't say that it should be the exact animation, just that idea. Like the merc does the regular berserk like he does now but it is sped up so he has time to thrust his gun in the air. The whole process should take the same amount of time that a berserk does now. It's just the basic idea of that move and not the actual move itself exactly.
And another thing, why do all the devs just push all of these ideas aside and make sarcastic jokes and put no real input?
What you are failing to consider is animation times and synchronizing the merc's animation to the spy's. You have to account for any circumstance, the spy is not always going to land on the merc from the same angle or right on his center in alignment for the merc animation to make sense and not become visually very ugly.
The thing with the berserk used in CT is that it is symmetrical and does not require any specific character alignment to make sense. If you start introducing things like that you are going to get bs like when you go to hack and it gets stuck trying to align you to the hack or it doesn't get stuck but you slooowly slide into alignment. If you remove any blending/peening to fix this then you wind up with people "porting" into alignment.
Let's say the merc throws his arms up over his head but you landed next to him and not on his head. What knocked you out? If you give him some sort of spinning 360 attack whilst fending off an overhead attack then you WILL have a merc that looks like a ballerina doing a pirhouette.
The type of berserk animation used will have to be based off of real physics to a degree. Especially if we want to incorporate the physics in UT3.
Unfortunately there is much more to consider than just what would look cool.
Edit: I have every certainty that our animator can make something pretty nice using a concept similar to CT. If Jet Lee can make something like spinning in a circle hitting people look badass, so can we. Hell, even having the merc end the manuever in a half crouched combat stance for a moment to create the delay after berserking, that would massively improve the look of the animation. Coming out of a 360 degree spin looking wobbly and dizzy isn't very menacing.
I mean no offence. This is a good discussion but man, I love drawing these.
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg524.imageshack.us%2Fimg524%2F9995%2Fberzerkva5.png&hash=7b8d2c44899b9dc704f2d89f4cd1b727303d4996)
hahahahaha
lol nice. that is perfect shape for no hit hat! looks just like dbz too they way they just standing there waiting to fight....still waiting....
I'm not failing to consider that at all. It would still look better than what we have now! Do you realize that our current animation ISN'T synchronize?! You can get hit from the berserk even when his hands are on the other side of the mercenary. No one has complained about that. Pretty much, it's whatever is in range of the merc at the time and not how far the animation is in progress. Atleast with my suggestions it will look believable when you get "berserked" from above.
WTF I love that drawin! I'm going to go find that one with the spy interrogation room! LOL :D " Tell me where the other spy is! " "no" " SHIT!!! >: o " Perfect! lol
I say, the merc gets cyclops laser eye. Beat that biznatches.
I say a helicopter hat with razor blades!
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fxs122.xs.to%2Fxs122%2F07493%2Fchopperhat.png&hash=1b2d8f1c8409cc698747b72045d73a4b1bb193f4)
How bout that!? That beats cyclops by a mile!!
LMAO. Yea it does.
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 05, 2007, 07:08:07 AM
I'm not failing to consider that at all. It would still look better than what we have now! Do you realize that our current animation ISN'T synchronize?!
And if some sort of complex synchronization between the two characters can be avoided that is one less performance hit at a point in time when responsiveness and reliability in character reaction may be crucial to the game outcome. That's why I was saying it's not just about looking cool, there's some technical limitations that should be observed for the sake of performance when it is needed most.
Edit: An example of an efficient way to do it performance wise and semi realisticly would be a sonic pulse field or a force field if you will, but a little more within our technological grasp currently. Sonic pulses push air outward in rapid pulses compressing it and repelling incoming objects. This of course creates a vacuum which could explain the merc's recovery time after the act. His stance could indicate he has activated the device, perhaps pushing a button on his wrist gear and bracing himself for the vacuum. It makes enough sense and it could be displayed efficiently via heavy distortion around the merc for the duration of the device usage. Not to intense performance wise and easy to identify, those are a few of the criteria to consider. The last thing we want is to spend a bunch of time on things that will cumulatively add up to a major performance hit.
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg89.imageshack.us%2Fimg89%2F6015%2Ffartjd7.th.gif&hash=58e19fb3bdf4472b398e091f71e7e2fb98b0b1dd) (http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fartjd7.gif)
The Fart Attack disabled any Spy activity within a 2 meter radius causing immediate KO.
Other Mercs are also affected, unless they wear gasmask.
This gets a little weird.
Quote from: frvge on December 05, 2007, 02:36:46 PM
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg89.imageshack.us%2Fimg89%2F6015%2Ffartjd7.th.gif&hash=58e19fb3bdf4472b398e091f71e7e2fb98b0b1dd) (http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fartjd7.gif)
The Fart Attack disabled any Spy activity within a 2 meter radius causing immediate KO.
Other Mercs are also affected, unless they wear gasmask.
Doesn't apply, since spies can run in their own smoke freely, so i don't see anyu reason for them to be affected by merc-gas.
Spy-gass doesn't smell >.>
Quote from: Cyntrox on December 05, 2007, 04:42:47 PM
Spy-gass doesn't smell >.>
True
If a fart is too childish, we can make it a release of neurotoxins. The only problem is that the KO-ed body of a Spy might still KO the Merc. Unless we make the body bounce back.
Wait, you weren't SERIOUS, right? :o
As for neurotoxins... That could work. Except that it wouldn't make any sense that you have an unlimited amount.
Quote from: B1nArY_001 on December 05, 2007, 10:02:18 AM
And if some sort of complex synchronization between the two characters can be avoided that is one less performance hit at a point in time when responsiveness and reliability in character reaction may be crucial to the game outcome. That's why I was saying it's not just about looking cool, there's some technical limitations that should be observed for the sake of performance when it is needed most.
Edit: An example of an efficient way to do it performance wise and semi realisticly would be a sonic pulse field or a force field if you will, but a little more within our technological grasp currently. Sonic pulses push air outward in rapid pulses compressing it and repelling incoming objects. This of course creates a vacuum which could explain the merc's recovery time after the act. His stance could indicate he has activated the device, perhaps pushing a button on his wrist gear and bracing himself for the vacuum. It makes enough sense and it could be displayed efficiently via heavy distortion around the merc for the duration of the device usage. Not to intense performance wise and easy to identify, those are a few of the criteria to consider. The last thing we want is to spend a bunch of time on things that will cumulatively add up to a major performance hit.
Wrong. You'll get the same result as a berserk does now with my animation. Regardless of synchronization. Takes the same time to complete as it does now. The ONLY difference between my animation and berserk is that there is a quick gun butt thrust into the air after a sped up berserk. The whole process will take the same time because the berserk part of it will be faster than before, and then comes the quick jab into the air. Especially if the animation goes faster then there will be MINOR if any synchronization problems at all.
The force field was what I was going to suggest next, somewhat like my pulse grenade idea, but on a lower scale. The merc crouches down and a little pack on his pack emits a pulse with the same range and effectiveness as our current berserk. Takes the same time and everything.
I like the farting idea combined with a merc with cyclops laser eye wearing a helicopter hat, all at the same time, being a super saiyan.
First the complaint is the Devs aren't responding to the ideas the way you want. Then when we offer a technical breakdown on what has to be considered before something can be implemented we get a response like this... ::)
Jumping, necking, melee hits and berserk are going to be game-breakers if done wrong. They need to be thought through very carefully with more concern for reliability and performance than looks.
Reliability? What? It does the SAME EXACT thing as a berserk does now. What exactly makes you think that a different animation for the same effect will make performance suffer? Doesn't go together man. You could make the animation for killing mercs where spies stick a metal rod up the merc's nose into his brain as long as it gets the same effect in the same amount of time. It won't hurt performance.
Tell me how a different animation that gets the same result within the same amount of time would hurt the peformance, please, enlighten me.
What I'm suggesting is no different than our current berserk other than the looks of it.
I'm not a dev but I sure as hell know what affects something else.
When the idea started shifting towards a move that requires syncing up the characters so the animation doesn't look like shit, that's when it becomes a performance concern. Read through your previous posts. Not to even mention that with the animation you suggest, if the spy lands on the merc as the merc is spinning and has not yet thrust his gun into the air, the merc is going to look like a fucking retard jabbing his gun into the air as the spy is already hitting the ground. You might as well just have the spin. That combined with you saying the current berserk is NOT even synced leads one to believe you are thinking this move should sync. Watch what you say and how you say it, people go off of what you say, you can't go acting like some butt-hurt ass when you lead people astray. Anyhow, this is my final response on the subject, I'm not going to do this retarded circles bullshit. Spekkio and I already did that and it's pointless.
Again. I'll say it again. It is only to show something logical for getting hit while dropping on someone. NOT for syncing. This animation will go fast because it squeezes the air jab and a spin into the same time period that a current berserk has. So, even though it isn't totally for synching, it will still match up because of the quickness of the phases of the animation. Think of how long the current berserk takes: Like 1.5 seconds right? Imagine that current berserk and an air jab in one and a half seconds. It will look reasonable.
Our current berserk isn't synched because you can get knocked to the ground when the merc's arms are on the other side of him and not touching you yet.
Still, wouldn't hurt performance of the game.
I want you to go outside and have someone drop on you from 2 stories up. Try to stop him from knocking you down by spinning your arms around in circles like an idiot. Sure, he'll probably fall down. But is he a trained agile spy who can regain his balance easily? No. Even if the guy who dropped on you couldn't regain his balance you would STILL be knocked down by the impact of him landing on you. Spinning your arms around in a circle isn't going to do shit to keep him off of you.
New animation suggestion:
Sorry for crappy drawing :-X
Desription!!!: Basically the merc holds the gun in the air above his head but he sticks his elbows out. The butt of the gun hits anything above him and his elbows hit anything around him. Before this animation happens he quickly goes into a stance like he is about to swing a bat. While in this stance he is a little bit higher than in a crouched position, while he does the animation he would be crouched a bit as well. Then, he quickly spins around while his elbows and gun knock down those pesky spies. Not sure how this would look ingame exactly, looked good on paper and in my head though....
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fxs122.xs.to%2Fxs122%2F07494%2Fberserk.png&hash=e2932ccd6ba8d744f96b5f2f25a63bf865d63990)
I'll get a drawing of my hunter move later.
I will attempt to fix (https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi24.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc42%2Fdesolator2k%2FBerserkproblem.jpg&hash=1d80daac300e5bc825dd9959aa2d75e36d3942af)
So basiaclly you side step the spy hits the concrete and breaks his neck from miscalculation and then you do the good old meat grinding animation on his corpse to finish him off.
Sidestep would have to be a real fast animation if it would be used in a sidestep>berserk automatic animation sequence.
There's no real way of stopping a body/person landing on you short of hitting it with a grenade unless you dodge.
Although this might look silly in practice if you were using it as a ground to ground berserk but i dont care cos it's 3 am. I'll think about it later
Thats not an alternative at all. How many times has a spy jumped and missed you as merc. You obviously saw this and charged him as soon as he hit the ground. Side-step poses practically the same "instance" if you will.
I say, the substitute of a berserk would be the merc grabbing the spy when he (the spy) jumped and body-slamming him to the ground. Followed of course by a "pick-up and head-butt" motion; a foot to the neck of the spy (just under the chin) with room to taunt followed by a bullet to the head; or any motion of the merc going to the spy and snapping his neck. I personally like the foot choke with a bullet to the head. Talk about bad ass.
I don't really feel like drawing it out, but a merc catching a spy mid air and slamming his ass would be pretty sweet.
I seem to remember a move from one of the trailers which wasn't included in final game, some kind of move a merc could throw a spy over and grapple him, that could work.
Personally though, I see no need to replace the beserk.
I'm not suggesting we get rid of the current berserk animation - i just though adding the sidestep before the spin would be an efficient way to make the animation look clean (not knocking a spy out above your head with a level spin.)
Leave the damn berserk animation. It looks fine the way it is and trying to make it more complex just gives it more room to look stupid and be glitchy.
Making it different doesn't automatically make it complex. I just want animation that looks right and makes sense when someone jumps on a merc. Spinning your arms in circles around you like an idiot isn't going to knock someone down ABOVE you. And it just looks retarded in game.
Grab that bitch and slam him. I'm tellin you. That would be pretty sick.
That would be where it gets complicated. Then, you would have to synch the players when the spy is jumping on the merc and it would just get buggy. Plus, grabbing the spy wouldn't hit the guys around you: Unless of course, you grab the spy by his legs and swing him around :o Too complicated but that would be tight.
I just want animation that makes sense. An animation that hits BOTH the peopl around you and above you. The force pulse field idea would be pretty good. That Neth already suggested. What if the merc were to crouch down and then the pulse field would come from like an emitter on his back and knock down everything within the same range the current berserk does now. The merc would be a little dazed after it because he just had a powerful field around him.
OH! What if the pulse/new berserk hit away the spy's grenades fired at him as well? That would be pretty interesting! Like if a merc was getting bombarded by grenades he could use his pulse field and knock a grenade like 10 feet away from him. Of course the grenade would still go off but it would be a little further away from him. It wouldn't always be a good idea because you wouldn't be able to berserk for a while after you just did it.
I like it.
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 08, 2007, 09:58:02 PM
That would be where it gets complicated. Then, you would have to synch the players when the spy is jumping on the merc and it would just get buggy. Plus, grabbing the spy wouldn't hit the guys around you: Unless of course, you grab the spy by his legs and swing him around :o Too complicated but that would be tight.
I just want animation that makes sense. An animation that hits BOTH the peopl around you and above you. The force pulse field idea would be pretty good. That Neth already suggested. What if the merc were to crouch down and then the pulse field would come from like an emitter on his back and knock down everything within the same range the current berserk does now. The merc would be a little dazed after it because he just had a powerful field around him.
OH! What if the pulse/new berserk hit away the spy's grenades fired at him as well? That would be pretty interesting! Like if a merc was getting bombarded by grenades he could use his pulse field and knock a grenade like 10 feet away from him. Of course the grenade would still go off but it would be a little further away from him. It wouldn't always be a good idea because you wouldn't be able to berserk for a while after you just did it.
I think the pulse thing realy breaks the SplinterCell spirit... passing from a high-tech/abit futuristic theme too a totaly science-fiction/StarWar theme.
But I must agree that the berserk of Ct does either... swing ur gun wont help you if a 200+ pound guy jumps on you...
My suggestion is that berserk is a move only for when a spies jumps on you (where the animation is a powerfull elbow-push-hit to the side) or only for an all around hit(where the animation is a low turn-kick)
or the best would be (if it's possible):
-if there is no spy = low turn-kick
-if there is a spy on the ground in range = low turn-kick
-if there is a spy on top of the merc in range (of the berserk) = elbow-push-hit
What if there is a spy above the merc and around the merc? That is where your idea has a hole. It's not science fiction. If you looked at neth's description it's actually an electric field and not a pulse field. But instead of shocking the spy, I thought it would be better if it had the pulse effect where it knocks the spy down. I don't know why I called it pulse really.
What's more science fiction is a camo suit that works while you are moving.
Moving camo suit is possible.
Hardly. The ones they have in development right now only work well while stationary. While you are moving it blurs and the suit doesn't conceal you anymore.
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 09, 2007, 03:04:01 AM
What if there is a spy above the merc and around the merc? That is where your idea has a hole. It's not science fiction. If you looked at neth's description it's actually an electric field and not a pulse field. But instead of shocking the spy, I thought it would be better if it had the pulse effect where it knocks the spy down. I don't know why I called it pulse really.
What's more science fiction is a camo suit that works while you are moving.
1. You an I lived in a electric field for about all our lifes... it never knocked me down
2. First law of basic physic you learn every reaction was a equal and oposite reaction... if there existed a "electrice field" able to push and knock out lets say a spy the merc would be knock out as well specialy if he as the device on him
3. I agree my idea as a hole
4. Moving camo suit is close to reality
Quote from: Test-Subject on December 09, 2007, 03:59:01 AM
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 09, 2007, 03:04:01 AM
What if there is a spy above the merc and around the merc? That is where your idea has a hole. It's not science fiction. If you looked at neth's description it's actually an electric field and not a pulse field. But instead of shocking the spy, I thought it would be better if it had the pulse effect where it knocks the spy down. I don't know why I called it pulse really.
What's more science fiction is a camo suit that works while you are moving.
1. You an I lived in a electric field for about all our lifes... it never knocked me down
2. First law of basic physic you learn every reaction was a equal and oposite reaction... if there existed a "electrice field" able to push and knock out lets say a spy the merc would be knock out as well specialy if he as the device on him
3. I agree my idea as a hole - solution the merc prioterize get the spy jumping on him then hope not getting fucked by the other one
4. Moving camo suit is close to reality
More like an EMP, an EMP that has a big force but not a big range. Remember, this is a game. Anything is possible. Like if a spy jumps on an electrified merc they aren't going to instantly die and fly off his head.
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 09, 2007, 05:03:36 AM
More like an EMP, an EMP that has a big force but not a big range. Remember, this is a game. Anything is possible. Like if a spy jumps on an electrified merc they aren't going to instantly die and fly off his head.
Yeah I had a feeling you were going to bring this up... I actuly don't like this part of the game... If we could keep it at some thing that make seen it would be nice... I would be disapointed is the merc became Jedis.
(Btw Emp basicly only disturb electronics - the spy suit wouldn't work (if it aint protected from Emps) but the merc would still have the problem of a huge monkey landing on him)
That's the thing, it would be a "force" emp. It forces away electronic things. Like a spy suit, and the blast would basically daze the spy for a few seconds ( like the current berserk does ). I'm not saying it's realistic but atleast it makes sense somewhat, not like the current berserk where somehow a swinging arm knocks down spies above. Again man, it's a video game.
How about just an electronic blast and not an EMP which would be kind of strange anyways. There is a pack on the back of the merc and it shoots out bolts of electricity towards anything around him. And anything above him would be sent back a little bit by the voltage shot. If you were hit by a jolt of around 5,000 volts or so you would fly back a few feet. So, this is realistic, FUCKING COOL, and it makes sense right?
I forgot to give Neth credit for that idea, but I modified it a little bit. Here's the drawing.
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fxs222.xs.to%2Fxs222%2F07490%2Fberserk3.png&hash=8475af8839673c1f622ede6411bdaf21c347261b)
Description:
A bunch of bolts of electricity go surging out of a little device on the merc's back. It electrifies and pushes anything down around him. Basically it has the same effect and same range as the current berserk except the spies get shocked and pushed down. It does the same damage though... Maybe the mercs have a little bar of energy level on their screen like spies do and when it recharges they can perform this again. Of course it would recharge much quicker than a spy's bar.
How about that?
Hello. How about a guarding or shielding stance a Merc can go into to deflect the falling Spy? When the Spy lands on the Merc he's obviously deflected and falls to the ground (not completely knocked down on his ass). Of course, due the weight and speed of the falling the spy, the Merc get's a bit of the wind knocked out of him and he staggers a bit too.
To be a little more descriptive, the Merc would have to look up around a 75 degree angle (variable) and push a button to enter into the stance. How it would look is something like this, the Merc raising his rifle/shotgun over his head with both arms holding his weapon firmly and bending his legs slightly to brace for the impact of the falling spy. The spy lands on the Merc but is caught off balance by the stance and falls off while the Merc would be knocked down or pushed back a bit and dazed a little. During this time he's kind of invulnerable like after getting SS.
The Merc will not be able to move while in this stance and any spy sneaking behind him can knock the merc out similar to knocking out a crouched Merc in CT.
That's the problem man, there has to be 1 and only 1 move for knocking down spies above you and around you.
Or does it? I think it sounds like a great idea that if you're looking above a set angle, you do the stance, and if not, you berserk. I always thought the merc should have to be a bit more conscious about berserking anyways..
If there are two spies, one trying to jump and one trying to grab, you can just charge away from the jump anyways.
Quote from: Cyntrox on December 09, 2007, 03:23:03 PM
If there are two spies, one trying to jump and one trying to grab, you can just charge away from the jump anyways.
Then you can do the move from the halo guy:
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 03, 2007, 08:10:41 PM
Hunters are the blue ones lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nir4osJinnA&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nir4osJinnA&feature=related)
AT ABOUT 20 SECONDS you can see him do the move I am talking about a couple times!
Too bad the quality is shitty but you can still see the basic idea.
If you do that Cyntrox it will change the gameplay too much. I'd rather have one button for knocking down all the spies around me and not have to worry about which move I make. It would add complexity to the game and make it MUCH harder for beginners
It's not really any harder than aiming the gun before shooting. You aim towards the spy and press a button. If he's above you, you'll do the stance, if he's on the same floor you'll berserk.
It just doesn't feel right if a merc is able to hit a spy he doesn't see.
It's equally strange if a merc goes into a stance to deflect the spy that he doesn't see.
Uh... If he doesn't see him, he doesn't go into the stance?
Exactly. You contradicted yourself.
Quote from: Cyntrox on December 10, 2007, 12:11:27 AM
It just doesn't feel right if a merc is able to hit a spy he doesn't see.
He just won't berserk if he doesn't see him.
I still think that the idea that Neth somewhat had would be best. He halfway had that idea, I just changed it a little bit.
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 09, 2007, 07:38:31 AM
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fxs222.xs.to%2Fxs222%2F07490%2Fberserk3.png&hash=8475af8839673c1f622ede6411bdaf21c347261b)
Description:
A bunch of bolts of electricity go surging out of a little device on the merc's back. It electrifies and pushes anything down around him. Basically it has the same effect and same range as the current berserk except the spies get shocked and pushed down. It does the same damage though... Maybe the mercs have a little bar of energy level on their screen like spies do and when it recharges they can perform this again. Of course it would recharge much quicker than a spy's bar.
How can you tell me that it wouldn't make sense? It would be so badass!
It wouldn't let me edit. Here is the same drawing but a little different. This is how it could knock spies down.
(https://community.projectstealthgame.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fxs222.xs.to%2Fxs222%2F07501%2Faltberserk.png&hash=be89936b3cf66d888b02ade7b11a21d992aa29b2)
Hopefully you see how freaking awesome this could be. ;D
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 10, 2007, 03:12:19 AM
Exactly. You contradicted yourself.
Quote from: Cyntrox on December 10, 2007, 12:11:27 AM
It just doesn't feel right if a merc is able to hit a spy he doesn't see.
He just won't berserk if he doesn't see him.
People sometimes do, for example if he sees a spy on the ground, berserks and hits a spy in the air too.
Quote from: Cyntrox on December 10, 2007, 11:35:35 AM
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 10, 2007, 03:12:19 AM
Exactly. You contradicted yourself.
Quote from: Cyntrox on December 10, 2007, 12:11:27 AM
It just doesn't feel right if a merc is able to hit a spy he doesn't see.
He just won't berserk if he doesn't see him.
People sometimes do, for example if he sees a spy on the ground, berserks and hits a spy in the air too.
Nothing wrong with that, the spy just timed his jump badly. Berserk is a fair counter the only problem is jumps are too random. You have to literally stand on their head to KO them and half of the time even that isn't enough. Hosts on the other hand dont need to be anywhere near them and can still neutralize them.
Quote from: SITHDUKE on December 10, 2007, 12:14:04 PM
Quote from: Cyntrox on December 10, 2007, 11:35:35 AM
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 10, 2007, 03:12:19 AM
Exactly. You contradicted yourself.
Quote from: Cyntrox on December 10, 2007, 12:11:27 AM
It just doesn't feel right if a merc is able to hit a spy he doesn't see.
He just won't berserk if he doesn't see him.
People sometimes do, for example if he sees a spy on the ground, berserks and hits a spy in the air too.
Nothing wrong with that
Is it just me that want to reward skill rather than luck?
berserk has nothing to do with luck, it's all about proper timing. the move is fine as it is, not everything has to be realistic.
Ok, I got lost after page 1 and I don't feel like reading 7 pages (!!!!).
Could someone please summarize what they want -.-
Beserk is what the name stands for, an action of brutal force, so for the merc it will probably be a bash of some kind. I actually like the one from CT, since you can use it to run around.
Though, the one of the spy needs to be a bit more powerfull IMHO.
I didn't really mean it seriously but even the Sonic Pulse air compression is more realistic than shooting electricity out of your back. Not to mention for this to work there would need to be some sort of series of contacts on the merc's suit for the electricity to arc to otherwise you really are getting quite scifi. We don't have the technology to contain an electrical discharge in a "field" or barrier form, the merc would also need to be VERY heavily insulated against being shocked by his own device and the heat it would generate. Sound waves displacing air and causing compression is however quite possible and has been done in real life. I don't think a field is a bad idea in general, but the electric field is a bit far fetched.
Edit: Most of the aspects of the game are going to conform to a loose semblance of reality and throwing in some sort of electrical force field would look cool but totally fall outside the level of realism employed through the rest of the game. Yeah spinning in a circle isn't completely realistic but it does fall within the parameters of what the game is considering realistic.
Quote from: B1nArY_001 on December 10, 2007, 09:45:30 PM
I didn't really mean it seriously but even the Sonic Pulse air compression is more realistic than shooting electricity out of your back.
ehm, since when its about realism ?
Besides dont underestimate possibilities electricity gives: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5Vwxabb12s
If a certain level of realism is not maintained across the board then you wind up with things that are about as out of place as Spekkio's favorite quip "Why don't we just give the Spy a Rocket Launcher". This ruins the player's immersion in the game. If we are going to go that futuristic why even use frag grenades, mines and other rather low-tech devices? It just doesn't fit with the rest of the game... We might as well watch a few Anime and just copy the "charge up orb" that appears around a powerful individual. Oh and let's not forget the cool looking swirls of dust on the outside of the orb. The merc's eyes should probably glow while he does this too :D
I remind you that electric field is in CT.
Oh? Where?
When merc stands up after knockdown.
While I don't really have a realism problem with the field (we have a suit that fucking turns people invisible), it is going to have one game consistent problem. Namely, why doesn't the merc just activate the electric jolt while he's being grabbed by the spy?
Because that doesn't make any real sense, I'd just stick to the standard berserk, unless we absolutely have to switch it.
Quote from: InvisibleMan999 on December 10, 2007, 10:18:35 PM
Namely, why doesn't the merc just activate the electric jolt while he's being grabbed by the spy?
"-Oh, he grabbed me, ill press this field activation button on my su.."
The electrical field displayed when the merc get's up was Ubi's cheap fix for a double jump, they could have omitted the shock texture but they didn't. They just more or less made it shock the merc, there's even the sound of the being hit with the sticky shocker as you get up. We aren't ubi and don't have to cheese it the way they did.
Let's also not forget the obvious, how the fuck are you gonna SS a merc insulated against this device? You wouldn't be able to!
Quote from: B1nArY_001 on December 10, 2007, 10:10:18 PM
If a certain level of realism is not maintained across the board then you wind up with things that are about as out of place as Spekkio's favorite quip "Why don't we just give the Spy a Rocket Launcher". This ruins the player's immersion in the game. If we are going to go that futuristic why even use frag grenades, mines and other rather low-tech devices? It just doesn't fit with the rest of the game... We might as well watch a few Anime and just copy the "charge up orb" that appears around a powerful individual. Oh and let's not forget the cool looking swirls of dust on the outside of the orb. The merc's eyes should probably glow while he does this too :D
Yeah!!!
Quote from: B1nArY_001 on December 10, 2007, 10:10:18 PM
We might as well watch a few Anime and just copy the "charge up orb" that appears around a powerful individual.
Give the spies Kyuubi and Shukaku to each, and make the one with Kyuubi do Chidori instead of necking, while the other one will do Rasengan.
(All from Naruto :P)
Dragonball-franchise > Naruto
Quote from: frvge on December 10, 2007, 11:50:23 PM
Dragonball-franchise > Naruto
Dragonball-franchise < Naruto
Bah... Alucard pwns em all (Hellsing). The Manga anyway... The Anime was only so-so. Great artwork however.
Quote from: B1nArY_001 on December 10, 2007, 10:25:17 PM
The electrical field displayed when the merc get's up was Ubi's cheap fix for a double jump, they could have omitted the shock texture but they didn't. They just more or less made it shock the merc, there's even the sound of the being hit with the sticky shocker as you get up. We aren't ubi and don't have to cheese it the way they did.
Let's also not forget the obvious, how the fuck are you gonna SS a merc insulated against this device? You wouldn't be able to!
While you're right the shock animation serves a very useful purpose...its to let you know when his jump/neck grace is over. You wouldnt wanna see a merc jump on him only to die and be like "wtf?". The elctricity animation is a neccisery evil.
I think the shock animation after waking could be replaced with another indicator of some sort, or instead of making it kill the spy just have the spy slide off without doing any damage. Besides if you are communicating with your teammate you will know the merc was just jumped/cammed and should have the sense to wait the 2 seconds after he gets up. It's not that hard to add little tips on the loading screen and such things as the SS timer and double jump prevention can be noted there. It's not like the SS timer has a visual display and that's what... 12 seconds? How many times have you died from shocking a merc that was just shocked? Now THAT is something that should be considered, not the jump grace. We are only talking about 2 seconds and if it doesn't kill the spy then there is no reason to display anything at all.
I am doubtful we will encounter the exact same lag issues with jumping on a merc so just simply sliding off would be more than sufficient. I think whoever made it kill the spy must have been double jumped a million times and just wanted revenge :D
I like electric sparks coming from the suits after being tazed.
after SS, the sparks mean: repairing the suit (like Crysis). You see this so you probably wouldn't SS him again until after 12 seconds, Might take the tracking of the timing out of the game, but I think that's a fair trade-off to get MUCH more accessible in a relatively easy way.
after jump/KO/sleep, the sparks mean: internal energy exposed, careful and don't jump. It's a small effect, so an uncareful spy might still jump. Balances out with the previous thing.
Quote from: B1nArY_001 on December 11, 2007, 07:00:55 PM
I think the shock animation after waking could be replaced with another indicator of some sort, or instead of making it kill the spy just have the spy slide off without doing any damage. Besides if you are communicating with your teammate you will know the merc was just jumped/cammed and should have the sense to wait the 2 seconds after he gets up. It's not that hard to add little tips on the loading screen and such things as the SS timer and double jump prevention can be noted there. It's not like the SS timer has a delay and that's what... 12 seconds? We are only talking about 2 seconds and if it doesn't kill the spy then there is no reason to display anything at all.
I am doubtful we will encounter the exact same lag issues with jumping on a merc so just simply sliding off would be more than sufficient. I think whoever made it kill the spy must have been double jumped a million times and just wanted revenge
Is it possible to create a animation that only played if the spy actuly tries a jump within the 2 seconde delay? Something like the merc takes a knife and hit the spy, something that doesn't need much sync. other then the merc turns(like for the humiliation move) to face the spy an hit in the air that match(will make sense with) the animation of the jumping spy...
To prevent a grab the animation could be a simple Elbow hit of the shoulder if the spy tries (press the grab button)
I'm just throwing the ideas
electric sparks sound good to me. a small indicator when you can't SS the merc is a good thing as it makes a basic game mechanic more obvious.
I still think that electric bolts would kick ass. So what if it's unrealistic?
Thanks guys :) Much appreciated.
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 11, 2007, 07:36:36 PM
I still think that electric bolts would kick ass. So what if it's unrealistic?
Electric bolts that knock spies down? You have to be kidding me. How about we give the merc a lightsaber when he's berserking? So what if it's unrealistic? ::)
Seriously though, it just doesn't fit.
Quote from: The Darkling on December 11, 2007, 08:21:15 PM
Quote from: Papa Skull on December 11, 2007, 07:36:36 PM
I still think that electric bolts would kick ass. So what if it's unrealistic?
Electric bolts that knock spies down? You have to be kidding me. How about we give the merc a lightsaber when he's berserking? So what if it's unrealistic? ::)
Seriously though, it just doesn't fit.
I vote for this idea. ;D
It would just be like a tazer on his back. Except it shoots multiple tazer shots. Are you going to tell me that since a tazer is unrealistic it might as well be a lightsaber as well? Give me a break.
Quote from: frvge on December 11, 2007, 07:09:15 PM
I like electric sparks coming from the suits after being tazed.
after SS, the sparks mean: repairing the suit (like Crysis). You see this so you probably wouldn't SS him again until after 12 seconds, Might take the tracking of the timing out of the game, but I think that's a fair trade-off to get MUCH more accessible in a relatively easy way.
after jump/KO/sleep, the sparks mean: internal energy exposed, careful and don't jump. It's a small effect, so an uncareful spy might still jump. Balances out with the previous thing.
You mean sparks for 12 secs after being tazed ?
Often there is a situation when you play as spy and want to taz the merc but you cant cause your partner did it a few secs ago and you didnt know that, so you blame lag. So why not mark merc somehow so you know he was tazed. Perhaps visions can be used here ? You switch to nightvision or thermal and you can see it.
This might be one of ways to buff nightvision a bit. Now its kinda useless and many people dont use it at all.
Quote from: neth on December 11, 2007, 09:01:54 PM
Quote from: frvge on December 11, 2007, 07:09:15 PM
I like electric sparks coming from the suits after being tazed.
after SS, the sparks mean: repairing the suit (like Crysis). You see this so you probably wouldn't SS him again until after 12 seconds, Might take the tracking of the timing out of the game, but I think that's a fair trade-off to get MUCH more accessible in a relatively easy way.
after jump/KO/sleep, the sparks mean: internal energy exposed, careful and don't jump. It's a small effect, so an uncareful spy might still jump. Balances out with the previous thing.
You mean sparks for 12 secs after being tazed ?
Often there is a situation when you play as spy and want to taz the merc but you cant cause your partner did it a few secs ago and you didnt know that, so you blame lag. So why not mark merc somehow so you know he was tazed. Perhaps visions can be used here ? You switch to nightvision or thermal and you can see it.
This might be one of ways to buff nightvision a bit. Now its kinda useless and many people dont use it at all.
Yes.
A reason I don't use night vision a lot is because of the lack of the shadows and darkness. You can always tell where you are going because of the lights on your body. With darker maps night vision will become more useful.
Nightvision is more useful when learning the map so you can see vents, boxes, pipes and whatever else there is. Once you know the map you'll only be using thermal for mines, traps and mercs.
there are some possibilites to boost nv:
-visible camera cones
-visible radius of motion sensors
-nv information system: shows eq of merc (x frags, x% mask, ...)
-make thermal vision more blurry/more stuff of the same temperature
-darker maps
-some form of sound vision
-some form of a vision mode that shows turbulences
etc
but i can't imagine any real good impacts on the gameplay with any of these changes besides darker maps.
As much as electric bolts sounds cool, I think it's much more fun to think about what your doing when beserking, such as "Shit am I gonna be grabbed now? FUCKING RUN!!!!" compared to "Zap, yummm Buttery Toast" :D.
Beserking would require more skill than 'Electric Bolts' :P. Beserking is fine and there really is absolutely no need to change it :D.
The electric bolts have the same effect and range as a berserk does now. Just a different animation for it.
i'd go for ct berserk + electric sparks as non-tazable indicator.
There's really nothing wrong with the berserk move, it should stay unchanged. It may look a tad silly when a spy is jumping on a merc's head, but the whole animation behind a spy's drop-tech is goofy to begin with. I vote to leave it how it is.
I agree, but I don't mind a change or tweak to it if someone suggests something plausible.
It looks very silly, not a tad. I am sure that the drop tech animation will be removed anyways. That way it is just like CT single player where sam falls through the guy with his elbow out or something. I don't think it would look as silly like this. How about you make the merc swing his gun a little higher. It's just a little tweak but atleast it will look better than what we have.